NES2 V - The Great Game.

[Insane_Panda]

Yeah, but to ask for his orders OOC and then use that OOC information IC is pretty unethical.

 

[1889]

Come on now, none of these accusations can be proved. The best defense against this is to remember that the NES community is fairly small. Your enemies here may be your ally in another time and place. Your nations and situations will change, the only thing that carries over is your reputation.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Yeah, but to ask for his orders OOC and then use that OOC information IC is pretty unethical.

But the orders could have been asked for IC in the name of coordinating efforts, they were OOC to save time. I think there were solid IC cases for what the betrayers did.

Also Thlayli...I didn't exactly see you complaining about Dalnorossias betrayel of the Turkmens

@1889: In my opinion they didn't act OOC, dirty rotten tricksters yes, OOC, no . And you should try and reduce the amount of emotion baggage you carry over from NES to NES - if your circumstances are different then you should to keep reputation different...though it does stick to some people.

 

[North King]

So it's basically over. All thanks to Iggy, I gather?

 

[Kozmos]

Yeah, but to ask for his orders OOC and then use that OOC information IC is pretty unethical.

Isnt OOC and IC pretty much the same crap?

Instead of "hey dude we need to plan this bizatch" you go "Greetings Ardashit IV shall we meet with our generals somewhere to coordinate our joint forces better?"

 

[North King]

No, Cleric. You just don't get it.

OOC = You are not playing as your nation. You are not commenting as your nation, you are not acting as your nation. You shouldn't be doing anything, really, to help your nation, if you're talking in OOC. OOC is just that, OUT OF CHARACTER, *not* as a nation.

IC = You ARE playing as your nation.

It's a very easy, fundemental difference, and if someone asks for an order set OOC, then they should not give it to their allies in IC fashion. That is low. Lower than low.

I've seen many betrayals, and even planned and carried out a few myself. But not like this.

Disgusting.

 

[Kozmos]

So it's basically over. All thanks to Iggy, I gather?

*spins revolver* You could attribute it to him if you wish...

Storm dont get upset...you know better then that.

No, Cleric. You just don't get it.

OOC = You are not playing as your nation. You are not commenting as your nation, you are not acting as your nation. You shouldn't be doing anything, really, to help your nation, if you're talking in OOC. OOC is just that, OUT OF CHARACTER, *not* as a nation.

IC = You ARE playing as your nation.

It's a very easy, fundemental difference, and if someone asks for an order set OOC, then they should not give it to their allies in IC fashion. That is low. Lower than low.

I've seen many betrayals, and even planned and carried out a few myself. But not like this.

Disgusting.

I didnt ask for his order set,I asked him to plan for a course of action.He could have just sent me what I needed to know for my forces.Instead he unrolled the whole deal.His mistake.

 

[Israelite9191]

Calm down people! I will not say wether I think it was the worst thing over done or not, because that will escelate things. Really, its just a bloody game! Sheesh.

EDIT: Basically what Cleric posted while I was typing, except to everyone.

 

[Stormbringer]

I didnt even know Iggy betrayed Thy, and never got any PMs from Iggy. In fact I sent a good third of my army into Turkey if someone cares because I got info from Cleric and Greece, not from Iggy. And then I get accused of telling Iggy to lie to Thy. Pisses me off.

 

[tossi]

Would be a shame if this struggle didn't end with a fair battle...

 

[Disenfrancised]

@Stormbringer; I really hope you stay in NES - your an excellent player, and if your happy with your own ethical position then just ignore those who whine - thats why its good to be the autocrat

So anyway guys

Please PM me your plans Thlayli. Then I'll send orders.

Just keeping our alliance a well-oiled machine.

Was I the only one you sent the plans early?

Uh...I usually send out the plans to everyone at the same time, except for little notes about specific things. Iggy just wanted to see my section of the orders regarding...well, you know.

Was this OOC? We obviously can only see whats going on in thread, but it looks like Iggy not asking for anything special that Thlayli would not have given anyway, and then passing on those plans to the rivals is a completely standard bit of betrayel. Heck I've lied worse than this, and anyone who was secretly sponsering a rebellion in rivals territory can hardly claim the moral high ground in this matter.

Thlayli; Turkey were rotten gits who hated you, them doing this sucked and I hoped you learnt a lesson. You trusted to much, we've all done that, but this isn't even remotely like what happened with sheep, Iggy didn't write formally, but it was still acting as his nation...

Edit: Okaaaay, seemed to have spent to long writing the post. I'm going to go with the 1889 plan.

 

[Thlayli]

Cleric referred to a general outline of strategy that he wanted from me. I sent that out to all of the allies at the same time.

Iggy wanted a PM of my orders, and details regarding several fronts, which I sent him.

Storm, I'd still appreciate it if you edited the posts.

 

[Thlayli]

From Cleric, then? My mistake, I was betrayed by Croatia and not Turkey. Though the latter one is still in doubt I guess.

Storm, if not to avoid a warning from the devs, then for the thread, please delete the cursing. I'm not going to report it, but you never know who will.

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: Stormbringer - 1 day ban for excessive swearing. That kind of language is not acceptable here.
Insane Panda - warned for language.
Spam deleted. If you posted here, and now your post is gone, consider yourself warned for spam.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[silver 2039]

Individual politicians yes, nation symbols such as the king and important buildings no. It all depends on what Thlayli has planned to do really...assuming he succeeds...

War statistics (in a attempt to cheer das up )

This world war* has already beaten OTL WWI in casualities among the armed forces with approximately 19 million** to 9 million, and we are catching to WW2's 25 million at a heady pace! The bloodiest year of the war so far has been 1867 (there has been a steady decline in casualities in 1868-9). The largest losses have been by the FK at over 2.5 million men, closely followed by Muscovy with 2.2 million and the third place pack of Poland, China and the HRE all at nearly 2 million each!*** The bloodiest threatre of the war to date has been the Livonian struggle with over 4 million dead - nice work guys!

*Taking the outbreak of Anglo-French Hostilities in 1866 as the start of the war on a global scale.
**Assumes an average of 10 thousand men to a division.
***Note assumes Nationalist, Provisional, The old French Empire, and republican france as seperate entities, additionally exact losses at the fall of various factions is undocumented.

Ah thats quite bloody....you're not taking into account civillian casulties though. I believe I have massacred large amounts of Swedes along with many cities. And if all goes well Poland will burn this turn.

 

[North King]

I think we're looking at somewhere between 20-30 million people around the world dead. In a PRE-INDUSTRIAL world; the contemporary world of 1870 had about 1.3 billion... Around 2% of the world population is probably going to be dead, all in all. That's assuming that das doesn't decide that the time is ripe for the Spanish flu. Or probably, it will be called the Persian flu or some such thing.

 

[ThomAnder]

I'm just surprised you guys even trusted Cleric this much considering how uncooperative he's been.

@ silver, you probably did burn Poland. I kinda lost interest in this anyway..

 

[alex994]

What surprises me a lot is that according to most sources the OTL Taiping Revolt alone caused 20 to some as high as 50 million deaths... And it was a localized regional conflict too.

Compare that to WWII which was fought throughout the World...

 

[ThomAnder]

What surprises me a lot is that according to most sources the OTL Taiping Revolt alone caused 20 to some as high as 50 million deaths... And it was a localized regional conflict too.

That's what happens when females and possibly kids join the army too...

 

[das]

I think we're looking at somewhere between 20-30 million people around the world dead.

No. Casualties in-update also include PoWs, the disorganized divisions, the heavily wounded, etc, etc, etc.