1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Never-Before-Seen Civs Poll

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by The Kingmaker, Jan 29, 2018.

?

Which of these civs do you want to see in the future? (Choose 7)

  1. Apache/Navajo/etc.

    113 vote(s)
    37.4%
  2. Argentina

    49 vote(s)
    16.2%
  3. Armenia

    47 vote(s)
    15.6%
  4. Ashanti

    76 vote(s)
    25.2%
  5. Benin/Dahomey

    41 vote(s)
    13.6%
  6. Bulgaria/Thrace

    40 vote(s)
    13.2%
  7. Burma

    45 vote(s)
    14.9%
  8. Canada

    59 vote(s)
    19.5%
  9. Cherokee/Creek/Choctaw/etc.

    66 vote(s)
    21.9%
  10. Colombia (or Gran Colombia)

    70 vote(s)
    23.2%
  11. Etruria

    9 vote(s)
    3.0%
  12. Gothia (any Goths)

    60 vote(s)
    19.9%
  13. Haida/Tlingit

    44 vote(s)
    14.6%
  14. Hebrews/Israel

    85 vote(s)
    28.1%
  15. Hungary

    97 vote(s)
    32.1%
  16. Inuit

    62 vote(s)
    20.5%
  17. Ireland

    50 vote(s)
    16.6%
  18. Italy (including Florence, Genoa, etc.)

    123 vote(s)
    40.7%
  19. Kilwa/Swahili

    54 vote(s)
    17.9%
  20. Lydia/Pontus/Kappadokia/etc.

    14 vote(s)
    4.6%
  21. Mughals

    54 vote(s)
    17.9%
  22. Palmyra/Syria/Nabataea/etc.

    31 vote(s)
    10.3%
  23. Phoenicia/Canaanites

    74 vote(s)
    24.5%
  24. Romania/Wallachia

    43 vote(s)
    14.2%
  25. Shawnee

    13 vote(s)
    4.3%
  26. Tibet

    78 vote(s)
    25.8%
  27. Vietnam

    140 vote(s)
    46.4%
  28. Ukraine/Kievan Rus'

    33 vote(s)
    10.9%
  29. Zimbabwe/Mutapa

    52 vote(s)
    17.2%
  30. Other

    52 vote(s)
    17.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,329
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    I don't disagree with this assessment, and it's one of many reasons I dislike Boudicca. However, Civ has a long history of turning collections of culturally unified city-states into civs (Greeks, Maya, etc.) or even unaffiliated bands into civs (Scythia) or even utterly disparate cultures into civs (Civ5 Celts). Damascus, Aleppo, Palmyra, and other Aramaic-speaking city-states in the highlands between Mesopotamia and Canaan were often politically independent (or independent-but-tributary) and often held considerable political sway over Canaan and sometimes even extending into Anatolia. I would be miffed if we got Zenobia over Babylon or Assyria, of course, but as an "also" I think it's a compelling solution: the Aramaean petty kingdoms lack compelling leaders, and Zenobia lacks a civ--making Zenobia lead a civ called "Aram" or even "Syria" solves both problems IMO.

    I'm not sure that's true. She's been a popular subject for artists and historical novelists for ages.
     
    Guandao likes this.
  2. Patine

    Patine Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,583
    Although, in Age of Empires I by Ensemble Studios (I know, I keep comparing civ choices between Sid Meier and Ensemble - but what can I say, I love strategy games of all sorts and makes), Palmyra is represented as a civ - then again, the Huns appear as a full civ in Age of Empires 2, despite Sid Meier seeming to traditionally like to reserving "Attila," as the default barbarian leader name.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  3. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,358
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    Well, some Hungarian nationalists claim descent from the Huns too....:p
    I recall my old Professor who claimed Sumerian was an Indo-European language simply because it's agglutinative (or something like that).
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  4. Patine

    Patine Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,583
    "We're all from Africa originally." Rachel Dolentz.

    Sorry, couldn't resist. :p
     
    Guandao likes this.
  5. Greywulf

    Greywulf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    738
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Earth
    Of interest, I've heard people say we are all from Europe, and heard people say we are all from East Asia, and of course I've also heard people say we are all from the Middle East. It's funny how humans can't agree on anything, lol.
     
    Zaarin and Guandao like this.
  6. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,358
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City
    :lol:
     
  7. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,241
    Location:
    Poland
    Geez, it would be so stupid if some civ game featured Huns as "civilization". They are the personification of barbarians. There wouldn't be even city list for them and devs would have to do some ridiculous, immersion-breaking gimmick with it.
     
    Depravo, Zaarin and Guandao like this.
  8. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    2,329
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    The "Huns" are already in the game though. They are the barb camps that spawn next to horses. ;)
     
    Zaarin and Guandao like this.
  9. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    8,195
    Location:
    Szeged, Hungary
    While historical influence is a complex question, and subjective to some extent, that's an interesting opinion to have.
    I would say Hungary had at least as much influence as Poland or Austria (being dominant in the area between the 9th and 16th centuries), and definitely had way more influence than Bulgaria (which was truly powerful for a much shorter time).
    Also I really doubt that Hun support is significant, or even exists, on Hungary/Magyars (which is the same btw).
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  10. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    461
    Never-Before-Seen Civs Poll

    I'm just referencing here because I don't want to write it out again. I don't think people actually believe Hungary is the Huns (they could be, we're not entirely sure, but probably not). I just believe that Hungary has sort of taken up the mantle of "the Hun civ," an easy horseback civ in the general vicinity for those fearing change to latch on to. It's the same reason why, now that Scotland was included, people are clamoring for a "proper" Celtic civ with Gaul. Or why if Peru became a civ, the Muisca would suddenly become the most requested civ in the region as a spiritual successor to the Inca. Fans pivot to the nearest analogue when they presume their most comfortable option is closed off. Hungary is the closest analogue to the Huns in the popular sphere. It's not an accurate association, given that Bulgaria is a much better analogue, but popular association is a matter of memetics and memetics don't care about optimization so much as familiarity.
     
  11. Havendish

    Havendish Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    80
    Gender:
    Male
    Just like your statement in a different thread here. About Poland stealing the Hussars from Hungary. Totally off base. Hussars were used by several European countries as cavalry corps. Not only by Hungarians and Poles. Polish ones, however were UNIQUE due to being heavy cavalry (typical Hussars are light cavalry) and by having "wings". Two very different units.

    And here, stating about Scythia and Poland being boring and same variation of backwater religion, and they let you post again after that?
    You should be made to publicly apologize to the Polish community using this site.

    You don't like playing as them, fine (you don't have to with Poland, just don't buy their dlc), just don't thrash countries like that, have some class.
     
  12. Havendish

    Havendish Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2018
    Messages:
    80
    Gender:
    Male

    You are a typical polish ignorant. How long did it take you to come up with this list? Do you know people work full time, have no chance to look everything up on other posts but have ideas they want to add to the discussion. Yes, Wends were different from Samo's "empire" but Samo, along with Dragovit or Niklot would make for a fine Western Slavic-pagan (practising Slavic Polytheism) leader. Read about him, he came from the West, converted to Slavian faith and fought the Franks with success before his empire collapsed.

    You are just like that PhoenixGold...whatever the nick of the person frequenting these forums here. You are full of yourself and unwilling to participate in a discussion without picking on another person, country or nation in order to make yourself look more intelligent. I've seen your posts about the need to disclude Sweden from the game, and your threads about what civs you don't want in the game (like that Phoenix guy's hate on Byzantium) and your reasons for disliking them. Why do you dislike so many people, is it common in Poland to be so xenophobic? Stop attacking other players and nations and prove your intellignce here in a proper and gentle manner.

    Ignorance prevails here.

    Half of the tribes you used in your post I posted up before on this site's Ideas and Suggestions forum either as Havendish or daft-years ago, because that was my former nick here.
    I came up with several ideas (and tribes to be included in the game) that you and the likes of you now try and claim for themselves.
    Alas, for now, I'm done with this crap and annoying and ignorant people such as yourself.
    bye krajzen (crazy-en)

    Moderator Action: This post is both trolling and flaming. Please do not treat other forum members in this way. leif
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2018
  13. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    461
    My ancestors were Polish, first of all, so I won't apologize. And secondly, if the most "identity" a civ can muster is being regressively, stagnantly devout and loves "ridin' horses," then I have every right to call it backwater. That's what it is. If Poland had anything to be proud of past the 1800s, it would have more to rally around than Jesus, but it doesn't. Same thing with Georgia. At least Spain actually accomplished something with its religion.
     
  14. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,185
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    I like the idea of the Huns as a minor Civ, actually. But one which doesn't start with settlers, but with a larger army (spawns around the medieval era at the edge of the map) Once they capture one or two cities, you can send them envoys, just like you would with a City State.

    It's not even the Huns who could benefit from this treatment. There are several ethnic groups which could as well, including

    - Hyksos
    - Sea People
    - Timurids
    - Khazars
    - Avars
    - Goths
    - Allemanni
    - Crusaders
    - Haida/Tlingit
    - Chocktaw/Cherokee
    - Umayyads
    - Seljuks
    - Shoshone/Apache
    - Guarani
    - Bantu

    and if we include Civs present in Civ6:

    - Scythians
    - Zulus
    - Vikings
    - Mapuche
    - Mongols
     
  15. Gedemo

    Gedemo Cacique

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Messages:
    650
    Location:
    France
    There would be a lot to say about the caricature you make of certain civilizations, while proposing in your own list some that could undergo the same arguments (precursor, native, with no famous achievement or uniqueness ...).

    Never mind, a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then.

    Finally, I am very happy to see that Maori (and their dance) are the most anticipated civ of Gathering Storm, and Rapa Nui will also be present (with its stone statues) as a city-state.
     
    VermelhoRed likes this.
  16. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    461
    But, they're right about Rapa Nui.

    It's really not a good representation of "civilization" given that they very quickly devolved into warring tribes who did nothing but chop forests and build monuments to themselves.

    By the time Europeans made contact, they had depleted their resources and had resorted to cannibalism.

    It's a very depressing and unambiguous story of total societal implosion, with none of the achievements or intrigue other failed civs have like the Maya

    For that reason, I'm not even sure I like Rapa Nui as a city state in the game, when Tonga was far more successful.
     
  17. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Messages:
    461
    Okay, now that we have another expack under our belts, I think I can narrow down this poll to the essentials. As far as "necessary" civs go for filling out the cultural map, three stand out:

    * Navajo - the second largest native population in the U.S. behind the Cherokee. Hold the largest tribal territory in the U.S. Unique windtalker unit, and hogans are fairly resonant. Would fill out western U.S. The best option for an American desert civ.
    * Burma - cleanly fills out the other half of southeast Asia. Older than Siam, more unique geographically and culturally than Vietnam. The paya/pagoda is a fairly iconic and resonant unique, much more Burmese than Thai.
    * Swahili - the "core" of the Oman empire which existed for some time prior to Islamic rule. Covers the east African coast, and so influential that Swahili is the most spoken language in Africa. Coral stone houses would make for an interesting UI, and perhaps of the "maritime trader civs" is the one most associated with luxury goods.

    Additionally, there are several other civs that I could see being included if development goes on long enough. In rough order of likelihood these are:

    * Bulgaria/Armenia - both have strong cultural identities but would struggle to differentiate themselves against Hungary/Georgia. The fact that both are currently represented by city-states adjacent to Hungary/Georgia makes a hard case for which/either would be chosen over the other. But they represent two sizeable geographic gaps that could be filled if push comes to shove. I would give Bulgaria the edge because an expack 3 will probably have Morocco occupying the "Semitic" niche.
    * Italy - is begging to implemented as a city-state civ centered in Vatican City. Both are highly requested civs and both could be synergized into something really flavorful. Perhaps too complicated for expack 3, and would likely need Rome to be decentralized with a Byzantine leader to create geographic space.
    * Inuit - highly popular and successful CBR civ, alongside Siberia. I think one of this is likely to happen to give a nod to CBR, but which is anyone's guess. Probably the Inuit are more likely given that they can occupy Greenland and have more iconic uniques associated with them.
    * Ireland - I'd put this civ roughly on par with Denmark. Slightly less likely due to the fact that it was never superpower. But also slightly more likely because it would fill the role of a "Celtic" civ better than the Celts would. There is design space for both if development goes on long enough.
    * Tibet - so much potential here, but I only see this being released in a small DLC pack, if ever. Perhaps paired with Vatican City/Italy.

    Everything else on the list is either in Gathering Storm, or wholly unnecessary to Civ VI. I would say the only civs I think are missing from consideration are Siberia/Sakha as filling northern Asia, the Taino/Arawak as filling Columbia/Caribbean, and perhaps the Timurids as filling the Uzbeki region. But I still do not think any of these are quite at the level of likelihood as the Navajo, Burma, or Swahili.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  18. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    5,067
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    It would be good to close this thread, since some of the results here have been confirmed.
     
    VermelhoRed and Xandinho like this.
  19. Xandinho

    Xandinho Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,498
    Location:
    Westeros
    Yes, it should be closed and it would be interesting to open another one by replacing Canada, Phoenicia and Hungary by Muisca, Tupi and Zapotec or Taíno.

    I thinkt that the most unpopular voting options, such as Etruria and Shawnee, could be deleted and replaced by others.
     
  20. Krajzen

    Krajzen Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,241
    Location:
    Poland
    Eh, as a person from outside of America I don't consider any particular Native American tribe as necessary in the game. I just expect one obligatory native civ from North America to represent I hate this word this entire cultural area and for Firaxis, US company, to not be accused of racism. Anyway, my favourite new NatAm civ would be Muscogee.

    Debatable. I guess you view Vietnam as less unique because of its cultural and geographic proximity to China, but you could say similar thing about Burma and its cultural and geographic proximity to India and Khmer (and Burma is culturally much closer to Khmer than Vietnam).
    Also, Vietnam has around two times longer history, has clearer gameplay focus (hardcore military defense tactics), is more known and memetic, has
    great female leader candidates :p and has history of spectacular underdog victories against major empires (China, Mongols, France, US).
    So I wouldn't say Burma is obvious choice here. I'd say instead: either Burma or Vietnam is necessary ;)

    You know, I generally agree that it'd be awesome to see Swahilli in game, I just wanted to mention that Swahilli city states existed for two thousand years before Omani invasion, which was long after their golden ages, and were mainly African in character - you described Swahilli as if it was the byproduct of Middleastern colonization on African coast :p In fact, it was the misconception of European colonizers that 'Swahilli cities were founded by "white" Arabs because of course "savage" blacks wouldn't be capable of creating them' ;)

    Saying Bulgaria would 'struggle to differentiate itself against Hungary' is like saying America has 'strong cultural identity but would struggle to differentiate themselves against Mexico' :D These are very different civilisations. Same with Armenia and Georgia. Personally I'd love to see both Bulgaria and Armenia in game, but I'd say their chances are almost nonexistent for civ6, especially Armenia. Maybe in civ7.

    Yes! And by the way, in my opinion Italy is by far the most 'necessary' civ right now, far beyond Swahilli, Vietnam or Burma. Come on, how can so great and infuential civilizaiton of world history still not be present in civ series because partial geographic (and completely not cultural) overlap with Rome?

    I'm sorry but Italy is absolutely not synonymous with Papal State and I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be very disappointed :p
    I have a question - why can't Italy get the same treatment as Greece or Maya and simply be presented as a single, united civ despite IRL being divided between numerous states in its golden ages? It makes no sense for people being fine with this anachronic unity of Greece in all civ games but suddenly be very nitpicky "oh wait Italy can't be united, it was city states". In fact, I'm pretty sure most Italy fans would prefer Italy this way.
    Just make Italy civ consist of all medieval/early modern/modern Italian cities not overlapping with Roman city names, with its capital probably being not Rome due to overlap but instead Florence or Milan, give it Lorenzo di Medici or Caterina Sforza or my favourite Matilda di Canossa as leader and it'd be perfect representation I hate this word.

    Besides, even if people had really so big problems with this idea, Italy is united anyways since second half of 19th century - then give it modern leader and medieval/renaissance stuff and everything's fine once again.

    Personally I still think Inuit and Siberian natives are the dumbest civs ever proposed by civ fanbase, proposed mainly because of obsessive 'filling all gaps on the map' and 'we need snow civ', in spite of them in general being the last people of the planet Earth that could honestly be described using even the most generous definition of the world 'civilization', and in spite of fact that they are proof of why homo sapiens simply cannot natively develop urban society in tundra. The day we see Inuits as civ next to Rome we may as well add Djibouti, Texas and Liechteinstein as separate civs, and each of those would still make more sense having the same status as Rome :p

    Yeah, I'd love to see them too. Obligatory regretful mention of how we'll never get Tibet because Firaxis want Chinese money.

    Wait, if Ireland is not 'unnecessary' despite Scotland already being here for British Isles and Celts, then it is no more 'necessary' than
    Bohemia, Lithuania, Belgium, Switzerland, Romania, Kievan Rus, Hittites, Yemen, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Philippines, Colombia, Mughals, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Colombia, Argentina, Zimbabwe, Ashanti, Yoruba, Kanem, Mexico etc :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    Metecury and Siptah like this.

Share This Page