Never before seen wonders - Elimination Thread

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Chrysler Building 22 (21+1) A leftover of New Yorks Golden Age as lighthouse of the Western World. A shame that the city has fallen so low.
Cliff Palace 18 @Zaarin nailed it
Gyeongbokgung Palace 19
Karnak Temples 26
Palais des Papes 16
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 12 (15-3) this or Cliff Palace should go next
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Chrysler Building 22
Cliff Palace 18
Gyeongbokgung Palace 19
Karnak Temples 26
Palais des Papes 16 + 1 = 17 My top3 here, the historical elements make it very interesting.
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 12 - 3 = 9 This has to fall before, Venice needs less of a wonder now than the American Amerindians.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Chrysler Building 22 the Chrysler building would be the second wonder from new York that makes it at the same level as st. Mark's basilica, if one goes the other should follow
Cliff Palace 18-3=15 I agree with @Zaarin
Gyeongbokgung Palace 19
Karnak Temples 26+1 more Egyptian wonders
Palais des Papes 17
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 9.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
So let me get this straight....North Amerindians were poor wonder builders, hence their structures are not worthy of being in the game, I'm speechless...
What about Monks Mound, which people down voted for being a "giant pile of dirt", not understanding the effort it took create one of the largest Mississippian mounds?
A wonder doesn't need to be fancy or overly ornate like most European cathedrals or even a Chinese inspired Korean palace.
Perhaps Firaxis agrees with that line of reasoning and decided to not add any North Amerindian Civs to Civ6. They simply aren't worthy enough for Civ....Given their past portrayals of North Amerindians, I guess it is for the best. Americans needs to feel justified about their conquest. :cry:
 
So let me get this straight....North Amerindians were poor wonder builders, hence their structures are not worthy of being in the game, I'm speechless...
What about Monks Mound, which people down voted for being a "giant pile of dirt", not understanding the effort it took create one of the largest Mississippian mounds?
A wonder doesn't need to be fancy or overly ornate like most European cathedrals or even a Chinese inspired Korean palace.
Perhaps Firaxis agrees with that line of reasoning and decided to not add any North Amerindian Civs to Civ6. They simply aren't worthy enough for Civ....Given their past portrayals of North Amerindians, I guess it is for the best. Americans needs to feel justified about their conquest. :cry:

Well, Cliff Palace is 1. Very small 2. Mostly famous because of its location

The thing about Native Americans is that I am sure that they had many structures that were wonder-worthy, but they were made of mud, wood and dirt - they would have deteriorated significantly before they were documented. Cliff Palace has only survived because it has never been rained on. I also think that Monk's Mound would definitely qualify as a wonder if the original wood structures were still intact. And by the way, the Aztecs are Amerindian, and they have a civilization. The Maya were Amerindian and they have wonders. (Why does everybody seem to forget that?) They were natives from North America. Firaxis doesn't forget to add Native American civs because they have them. Mexico/Belize/Guatemala = North Amerindian
 
Well, Cliff Palace is 1. Very small 2. Mostly famous because of its location

The thing about Native Americans is that I am sure that they had many structures that were wonder-worthy, but they were made of mud, wood and dirt - they would have deteriorated significantly before they were documented. Cliff Palace has only survived because it has never been rained on. I also think that Monk's Mound would definitely qualify as a wonder if the original wood structures were still intact. And by the way, the Aztecs are Amerindian, and they have a civilization. The Maya were Amerindian and they have wonders. (Why does everybody seem to forget that?) They were natives from North America. Firaxis doesn't forget to add Native American civs because they have them. Mexico/Belize/Guatemala = North Amerindian

Yeah, I keep forgetting the Mesoamericans count as North Amerindians.
Though for the people living north of Mesoamerica, I think Firaxis shouldn't represent them in the game anymore, like they did in Civ5.
 
So let me get this straight....North Amerindians were poor wonder builders, hence their structures are not worthy of being in the game, I'm speechless...
What about Monks Mound, which people down voted for being a "giant pile of dirt", not understanding the effort it took create one of the largest Mississippian mounds?
A wonder doesn't need to be fancy or overly ornate like most European cathedrals or even a Chinese inspired Korean palace.
Perhaps Firaxis agrees with that line of reasoning and decided to not add any North Amerindian Civs to Civ6. They simply aren't worthy enough for Civ....Given their past portrayals of North Amerindians, I guess it is for the best. Americans needs to feel justified about their conquest. :cry:
Why does a people have to be builders of wonders to be included in game? Also, just because something was a lot of work doesn't make it a wonder, though if we are going to include an Amerindian wonder I think a Mississippian mound site is a much better candidate than an Anasazi cliff dwelling. Also that last line is total nonsense; I don't think any Americans in 2017 feel that the American treatment of Native Americans was justified. If anything, we've gone from portraying them as barely human savages to revering them as romanticized New Age earth-loving hippies, which I'm going to posit is not much of an improvement. :/

Well, Cliff Palace is 1. Very small 2. Mostly famous because of its location

The thing about Native Americans is that I am sure that they had many structures that were wonder-worthy, but they were made of mud, wood and dirt - they would have deteriorated significantly before they were documented. Cliff Palace has only survived because it has never been rained on. I also think that Monk's Mound would definitely qualify as a wonder if the original wood structures were still intact. And by the way, the Aztecs are Amerindian, and they have a civilization. The Maya were Amerindian and they have wonders. (Why does everybody seem to forget that?) They were natives from North America. Firaxis doesn't forget to add Native American civs because they have them. Mexico/Belize/Guatemala = North Amerindian
I have to disagree. Mesoamerica is geographically in North America, but there is a huge cultural divide between Mesoamerica and the cultures north of the Rio Grande. (I've seen some scholars propose a link between the Mississippians and Mesoamerica, but I see no reason to assume that paramount chiefdoms weren't an independent innovation in both regions, especially since we see paramountcies all the way up the East coast. They have nothing else in common.)
 
Chrysler Building 22
Cliff Palace 15
Gyeongbokgung Palace (19-3)=16 Not the in-game wonder which Korea deserves, in my opinion. Too much overlap with the Forbidden City.
Karnak Temples 27
Palais des Papes 17
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica (9+1)=10 I think St. Mark's should hold on a little longer. It would look so iconic on the map, if they include the Campanile, and maybe the Doge's Palace.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27

Well, Great Zimbabwe was made an official wonder in Civ6. I don't think that fulfills the traditional requirements for a wonder....
 
Chrysler Building 22
Cliff Palace 12 (15 - 3) -- See above discussion.
Gyeongbokgung Palace 16
Karnak Temples 27
Palais des Papes 18 (17 + 1) -- Overlaps with the Alhambra? The Alhambra is a Moorish palace; this is a Gothic castle. I don't see how they're even vaguely similar. Also it's beautiful and would make a phenomenal diplomatic/religious wonder.
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 10
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Palais des Papes is close to the famous Avignon Bridge, made famous by the children's song Sur le pont d'Avignon.

The completion video of Palais des Papes would have a short excerpt of Sur le pont d'Avignon.
 
Spoiler :
Avignon%2C_Palais_des_Papes_depuis_Tour_Philippe_le_Bel_by_JM_Rosier.jpg

Spoiler :
alhambra-granada-12569503-istock.jpg


I meant in exterior design. Looking at these, they are remarkably similar. They both have the central large wall tower, singular spire overlooking the complex, etc. Yes, I know that they are completely different ages and are from different civilizations and religions, the design overlaps too much. (Also, there are many better choices for gothic castles/cathedrals (Heidleberg castle, St. Mark's Basilica)
 
Spoiler :
Avignon%2C_Palais_des_Papes_depuis_Tour_Philippe_le_Bel_by_JM_Rosier.jpg

Spoiler :
alhambra-granada-12569503-istock.jpg


I meant in exterior design. Looking at these, they are remarkably similar. They both have the central large wall tower, singular spire overlooking the complex, etc. Yes, I know that they are completely different ages and are from different civilizations and religions, the design overlaps too much. (Also, there are many better choices for gothic castles/cathedrals (Heidleberg castle, St. Mark's Basilica)
1) I think you chose perhaps the least iconic view of Alhambra; from other angles it looks much less like Palais des Papes. Note that the in-game model also emphasizes the square courtyard and Moorish designs; IMO Palais des Papes would not bear any resemblance to the Alhambra in game.
2) Castles more or less look similar because it's a design that works, just like swords generally look similar. The design is practical.
3) St. Mark's Basilica is Byzantine, not Gothic, though the exterior was refurbished in Baroque style.
4) In terms of Gothic cathedrals, there are hundreds of great options; the real question is narrowing it down to which ones do you choose. Nôtre Dame de Paris is probably the most iconic; Santa Maria del Fiore is fascinating but definitely pushing the boundaries of the already poorly defined category of Gothic architecture (and was finished well after the Gothic period--not an argument against its inclusion, simply an argument that it shouldn't really be considered a great exemplar of Gothic architecture); Cologne Cathedral (also finished after the Gothic period, however), Chartres Cathedral, Nôtre Dame de Reims, Canterbury Cathedral, and Westminster Abbey are some of the more spectacular examples of the style.
5) The list of Gothic castles is much, much smaller, Gothic being a chiefly ecclesiastical style. Palais des Papes and Krak des Chevaliers are probably the best examples; in terms of both historical significance and aesthetic qualities I think Palais des Papes wins out, though being the last surviving Crusader fortress gives Krak des Chevaliers some interest. Plus chevalier is just a fun word to say...As for Heidleberg, the initial castle was constructed in the Gothic period, but the current ruins were constructed much later during the Renaissance.
 
1) I think you chose perhaps the least iconic view of Alhambra; from other angles it looks much less like Palais des Papes. Note that the in-game model also emphasizes the square courtyard and Moorish designs; IMO Palais des Papes would not bear any resemblance to the Alhambra in game.
2) Castles more or less look similar because it's a design that works, just like swords generally look similar. The design is practical.
3) St. Mark's Basilica is Byzantine, not Gothic, though the exterior was refurbished in Baroque style.
4) In terms of Gothic cathedrals, there are hundreds of great options; the real question is narrowing it down to which ones do you choose. Nôtre Dame de Paris is probably the most iconic; Santa Maria del Fiore is fascinating but definitely pushing the boundaries of the already poorly defined category of Gothic architecture (and was finished well after the Gothic period--not an argument against its inclusion, simply an argument that it shouldn't really be considered a great exemplar of Gothic architecture); Cologne Cathedral (also finished after the Gothic period, however), Chartres Cathedral, Nôtre Dame de Reims, Canterbury Cathedral, and Westminster Abbey are some of the more spectacular examples of the style.
5) The list of Gothic castles is much, much smaller, Gothic being a chiefly ecclesiastical style. Palais des Papes and Krak des Chevaliers are probably the best examples; in terms of both historical significance and aesthetic qualities I think Palais des Papes wins out, though being the last surviving Crusader fortress gives Krak des Chevaliers some interest. Plus chevalier is just a fun word to say...As for Heidleberg, the initial castle was constructed in the Gothic period, but the current ruins were constructed much later during the Renaissance.
Not just that, but the Great Wall of China has crenellations! The engineers who built the Great Wall had no knowledge of medieval European or Arab military architecture; the Chinese engineers independently discovered crenellations!
 
Chrysler Building 22
Cliff Palace 12-3=9 - Let's kill it before St. Mark's. Saint Mark's Basilica is beautiful and iconic cathedral that would look gorgeous on map. As Zaarin said, Native Americans weren't great builders.
Gyeongbokgung Palace 16
Karnak Temples 27
Palais des Papes 18
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 10+1=11 - I'll fight for my greatest personal wish to the very end.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Chrysler Building 22 + 1 = 23 Civilization suffers from a severe lack of late-game wonders, and the Chrysler is one of the best options for that.
Cliff Palace 9 - 3 = 6 Really not that great of a structure. Only famous because of its location under the cliff.
Gyeongbokgung Palace 16
Karnak Temples 27
Palais des Papes 18
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 11
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Chrysler Building 23
Cliff Palace 6
Gyeongbokgung Palace 16 + 1 = 17 Again, I do not know many Korean structures, so I do not know if this is the most appropriate to represent Korea in civilization, but anyway, while this is the only one on the list, I will vote for it. And I do not mind having two oriental palaces as wonders, I do not see it as a problem.
Karnak Temples 27
Palais des Papes 18
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 11 - 3 = 8 This really is a beautiful structure, worthy of a wonder. I just prefer that other Italian cities like Florence, Milan, Pisa and even Genoa and Turin receive wonders earlier than any other Venetian wonder. I'm not taking points out of the Chrysler Building yet because we really need a skyscraper and more modern wonders.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Chrysler Building 23
Cliff Palace 6-3=3 let's end this already
Gyeongbokgung Palace 17
Karnak Temples 27+1=28 a wonderful structure worthy of civilization
Palais des Papes 18
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 8
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Chrysler Building 23
Cliff Palace 3-3=0 I think there's Eurocentric bias showing here, but I will kill Cliff Palace with my own hands. I pray Ed Beach never add any North Amerindians civs to the current game. I don't want them to be portrayed as people living in trees again. :rolleyes: They didn't build cities so why should they be in the game? Don't say Mississippians cause they don't count.
Gyeongbokgung Palace 17
Karnak Temples 28
Palais des Papes 18
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica (8+1)=9 It's still a great iconic structure. I would have chosen this instead of the Venetian Arsenal.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
@Guandao The Mississippians weren't the only urbanized culture in Pre-Columbian North America. The entire Eastern Woodlands were urbanized, with particularly noteworthy power centers included the Powhatan Confederacy and the Five Nations Iroquois--and other Iroquoian confederacies, like the Huron, Erie, and Neutral. In the Southwest, the Navajo and Puebloan peoples were urbanized; so were the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest.

Chrysler Building 23
Gyeongbokgung Palace 17
Karnak Temples 28
Palais des Papes 19 (18 + 1) -- Not a lot of Medieval palaces or individual castles are remarkable enough to qualify as a wonder, but this one does. Visually stunning and historically significant, it would make a great religious/diplomatic wonder.
Santa Maria del Fiore 34
St. Mark's Basilica 6 (9 - 3) -- It probably would have been a better choice over the Venetian Arsenal, but as it is the Venetian Arsenal is in game and there are more spectacular churches to choose from.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
Chrysler Building 23
Gyeongbokgung Palace 17
Karnak Temples 28
Palais des Papes 19
Santa Maria del Fiore 34+1=35 - Perfect Medieval/Renaissance wonder that deserves to be in game. Also, it's my second personal wish.
St. Mark's Basilica 6-3=3 - It's in the top 7, so I'm happy. But you're right, second Venetian wonder would be a little bit redundant... Let's end the suffering of this beautiful structure.
Tomb of Antiochus I 27
 
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