New BETA Version - 4.12.1 (July 10, 2024)

[Recursive]

Hey all,

New beta version inbound. Going to make a new thread for this as I have several announcements and it's once again savegame incompatible.

In terms of actual changes, this release is very light, though it does fix a few gamebreaking bugs, adds mid-journey movement points to the pathfinder UI, and adds some balance changes and UI improvements for Tourism.

Special Announcement #1:
I have coded and tested the Unit Supply Rework proposal by @azum4roll (requires version 4.11 to run) so you can all get a feeling of what that proposal would feel like to play with. It will be one of the two non-4UC things voted on in Session #8. The rework is attached as a modmod in a .zip file to this post; download and extract it to your MODS folder in order to play with it.

Changes in the rework:

Spoiler :

Current supply cap formula:
Flat supply = (Total of all flat sources) / (1 + X * tech progress)
Supply from population = (City 1's supply from population% * City 1's population + City 2's supply from population% * City 2's population + ...) / (1 + Y * tech progress)
Supply from difficulty = Z - (number of era passed)
Supply from general/admiral = number of generals/admirals expended

Clarifications
- Puppet cities provide half as much supply from population (except for Venice, which gets the full amount)
- When starting later than the Ancient Era, base supply from difficulty is increased by (2 * # of eras after Ancient), which is equivalent to +1 per era due to tech penalty

Total supply cap = (Sum of the above) * (1 - penalty from War Weariness)

Currently, X = 5/6, Y = 7, Z = 10 in Settler, 7 in Emperor, 6 in Deity

There are issues on supply cap balance between tall and wide, as well as the problem of having too much supply in the lategame. This proposal plans to rectify them.

Proposal part 1: reduce supply numbers over the board

	Base VP	Tweaked	Why?
Flat Supply Divisor	1 + 83% * tech progress	1 + 100% * tech progress	Keeping both divisors the same makes balancing easier.
Supply from Population Divisor	1 + 700% * tech progress	1 + 100% * tech progress	Keeping both divisors the same makes balancing easier. Also, the supply from population divisor is so high that all sources from that barely matter after the early game.
Difficulty Flat Supply Bonus	10 (Settler) to 6 (Deity), AI and City-States have 8	+2 to the current number	+1 supply in the capital to compensate the loss of supply per city. Additional +1 to compensate the empire size penalty for having a capital.
Difficulty-based Supply from Population	35% (Settler) to 15% (Deity), AI and City-States have 25%	All 20%	AI already gets a food bonus. They naturally have higher population than human players and don't need a higher supply from population %.
Base Supply per City	+1 Supply	0 Supply	You shouldn't be allowed to just plop down a new city and magically gain supply out of it. Build some infrastructure!
Lighthouse (+ Runestone)	+1 Supply	0 Supply	The supply was given to support coastal cities. But it turns out nobody builds ships either way and it is used for land units instead.
Harbor	+2 Supply	+1 Supply	You may start to have a couple of Caravels and Galleasses, but never 2 per coastal city.
Seaport	20% Supply from Population	10% Supply from Population	With the tech divisor lowered to 100%, supply from population % should be heavily toned down.
Stable (+ Ducal Stable)	10% Supply from Population	+1 Flat Supply	Production bonus for mounted melee obsoletes in the lategame. It's more thematically fitting to have a non-scaling supply bonus.
Walls, Castle, Bastion Fort, Arsenal, Military Base's Supply from Population (+ Walls of Babylon, Ostrog)	10%/10%/10%/10%/20%	All 5%	With the tech divisor lowered to 100%, supply from population % should be heavily toned down.
Bastion Fort's New Change (+ Ostrog)	0 Supply	+1 Flat Supply	The Navigation tech signals the age of sail. Corvettes and Frigates are both dominant combat ships and coastal cities need to have naval defense.
Parthenon	+10% Supply from local Population	0%	Why should a random culture wonder give supply?
Royal Guardhouse (from Tradition Justice)	20% Supply from local Population	+10% Supply from Population in all Cities	With the tech divisor lowered to 100%, supply from population % should be heavily toned down. This one's made global to encourage Tradition players to grow their other cities, not just their capital.
Dominance (from Authority)	+10% Supply from local Population	+5 Flat Supply	Early policy trees should have more immediate bonuses instead of scalers.
United Front (from Autocracy)	+50% Supply from Population in all Cities	+25% Supply from Population in all Cities	With the tech divisor lowered to 100%, supply from population % should be heavily toned down.
France UA	25% from Population in all Cities	15% from Population in all Cities	With the tech divisor lowered to 100%, supply from population % should be heavily toned down.

Other sources like Barracks are unchanged.

This reduces overall supply, still won't solve the above problems. Wide will continue to have more supply per city than tall, and lategame population still outgrows the tech penalty, despite exponential cost of growing.
Another variable is needed.

Part 2: add empire size penalty
Introducing the new Empire Size penalty: similar to Tech and Policy modifiers, you need +5% of supply per non-puppet city to reach the same supply count, just like how you need 5% more Science per non-puppet city to research a tech.

For example, if you have 4 cities, every 1.2 Flat Supply and Supply from Population will count as 1 Supply. Assuming NO researched tech and ignoring supply from difficulty/generals/admirals, a 20-city empire with 60 Flat Supply and 120 Supply from Population would have 180 / (1 + 5% * 20) = 90 supply cap.
This penalty stacks multiplicatively with the tech divisor. Which doesn't really violate the "all modifiers must stack additively" rule - all three of these are divisors, not modifiers!

The objective:
1. Tall should have higher supply per city than wide. This cannot be done with the current formula regardless of number changes (wide just has too much population per city right now), so an empire size penalty is needed.
2. Hopefully the lategame supply bloat can be addressed with the correct numbers. I expect no significant supply growth post-Industrial for the average player given the same amount of cities. Which is why I prefer keeping the tech divisor, since population still grows non-stop.

Possible questions:

Q1. Won't this make tall better than wide in warring?
A1. My aim is to make them equal assuming players evenly place their units at their borders, i.e. the supply cap to border length ratio (NOT land area; you don't need to defend the a city deep within your empire) is equal for both tall and wide. Neither should have the initial advantage, but the side with the better unit production should eventually have the upper hand, all other factors being equal.

Q2. How moddable is this?
A2. The empire size penalty per city will be yet another Defines value. Numbers can be tweaked however you want. Clarification: I implemented it as a column in the Worlds table (so it can be different on different map sizes, if desired).

Special Announcement #2:
I have reuploaded the Promotion Tree for VP mod to CivFanatics. Anyone who misses it is welcome to download it from this thread: UI - Promotion Tree for VP.


Special Announcement #3:
I pointed this out in the last version thread, but it wasn't added to the original post until several releases were made, so I want to highlight a really cool new feature that @axatin has added to Vox Populi (improved further in 4.11) that the average player can use - to a limited extent - to experiment with and debug their games without needing special tools:

Observer Mode Improvements
- A built-in debug mode that has been reworked by axatin to be more accessible to both developers and non-developers
- Observer Mode can now be toggled on (in single player) by anyone without the use of FireTuner / the Civ 5 SDK
- Observer Mode is now split into two modes: Local Observer Mode and Global Observer Mode
- ilteroi readded functionality to allow the game to pause between players' turns using an external script (ask him for details)

  Global Observer Mode
  - Press Ctrl+Shift+O to enter Global Observer Mode
  - The AI will take control over your civ (using the AI difficulty level), and the turns of all players are processed automatically
  - The map is completely revealed and all cities' City Screens and current production become visible
  - If Quick Movement is turned off, the camera will switch to the capital of each player at the start of their turn
      If Quick Movement is turned on, the camera will remain stationary
  - If Quick Combat is turned off, the combat animations for all units on the map are shown
  - The top panel is shown for the player that's currently active (major civs only)
  - Likewise, the active major's tech tree and policy panel can be accessed from the top panel
  - Pressing Ctrl+Shift+O while in Global Observer Mode will give the human player control of the AI civilization whose turn is currently being processed

  Local Observer Mode
  - Press Ctrl+Shift+L to enter Local Observer Mode
  - The AI will take control over your civ (using the AI difficulty level), and the turns of all players are processed automatically
  - The world map, city banners, and top panel will continue to be shown from the perspective of the your original civ
  - Pressing Ctrl+Shift+L while in Local Observer Mode will give you back control over your civ (after the other AI players' turns have been processed)


Player Swapping
- Press Ctrl+Shift+P to switch to the next AI player (only works in single player); no longer requires IGE or FireTuner
- Can only be used when not in observer mode and when it's the turn of the civ you're playing
- The AI will take control over your civ
- You will take control over the AI civ next in the turn order

Known issues/limitations of the new Observer Mode features:

• The minimap is sometimes not shown correctly. Can't be fixed.
• Some UI screens, like espionage screen and military overview, don't display anything.
• Unrevealed resources are always shown in observer mode.
• A game saved in Local Observer Mode will be loaded as a game in Global Observer Mode. Fixed in 4.11.
• First turn on Global Observer Mode is always slow because of the capital settling animations, which aren't sped up by Quick Movement.

And now for the actual changelog:

General
- Added DLL support for the Unit Supply Rework proposal modmod

AI
- Improved tactical AI healing logic for units without full moves
- Restored AI functionality to remember the position of units that it saw the previous turn
    In the same way as a human would make an educated guess about the unit's position

Balance
  Cities
  - City center tile yields are now consistently calculated as follows:
      Start with 2 Food, 1 Production (ignoring the normal yields of the tile)
      Add 1 Production to cities on Hills
      Add 1 Food to flatland cities that have Fresh Water
      Add 1 Gold to flatland cities that don't have Fresh Water
      Add 1 Food to cities on Mountains that have Fresh Water
      Add 1 Production and Gold to cities on Mountains that don't have Fresh Water
      Add the yields given by any resources on the tile

  Tourism
  - The owner of a religion now gains a Tourism % modifier equal to the % of the target player's population following the religion owner's religion
      This stacks up to 50%
      Effect is 50% stronger and stacks up to 75% if the Fealty branch has been completed
      Added functionality to the game database to change this to a per-city bonus
      This replaces the previous "Shared Religion" modifier (although it can also be reverted to a flat bonus through the game database, if desired)

UI
- Pathfinder UI now shows the movement points the selected unit will have at each stage of movement (rounded up)
- Made improvements to Tourism tooltip
    Clarified the difference between player generating tourism, and the player who the tourism is being inflicted upon
    Reorganized tooltip so that the earliest bonuses come first and UA/Policy/etc. abilities come last
    Updated Tourism concepts and yellow text in Civilopedia

Bugfixes
- Fixed crash on City-State turn
- Fixed UI glitch allowing unrevealed resources to be discovered
- Fixed endless peace treaty bug & a second deal bug
- Carthage's UA should now scale with era once, not twice (the extra scaling added in 4.9 was an error)
- Fixed games saved in Local Observer Mode being loaded in Global Observer Mode
- Fixed units staying in cities when the city is captured

Link: https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Commu...download/Release-4.12.1/Vox.Populi.4.12.1.exe

Online as of 4:45 AM CDT on June 30. Not savegame compatible.


---
Version 4.12 has been released. Link above has been updated.

Changelog:

General
- Added some more automated testing to GitHub
- Lots of code cleanup - deleted another ~5k lines of code (thanks again, azum4roll)
    Removed unused Civ4 religion mechanics

    Removed non-functional columns in Buildings table: FoundsReligion, IsReligious

    Reorganized CvPlayer::processPolicies(), make most policy abilities revertible
    - Notable exception being instant population, which is currently REAPPLIED when the policy is removed (fixed)
    - These policies' effects are now one shot (will not reapply if the policy is gained again):
    -- Progress opener: retro yields from population and tech
    -- Tradition opener: +2 capital population
    -- Resettlement: +2 population in every city
    -- People's Army, Worker's Faculties, Academy of Sciences: free buildings
    -- Universal Suffrage: start a golden age
    -- Enlightenment, Great Leap Forward: free tech
    - Fixed National Treasure not having IncludesOneShotFreeUnits = 1
    - "Technically, OneShot and IncludesOneShotFreeUnits should be default true since it's normal to block these effects from firing twice, but I'm too lazy to add a PolicySweeps.sql for now"
    - DLL modders need to be careful where to place change functions

    Removed unused (and defunct) variables and functions about "chosen" policy branches
    - Fixed top panel calling the wrong Lua function
    - Removed defines: NUM_POLICY_BRANCHES_ALLOWED
    - Removed column: Policies.NumExtraBranches
    - Removed Lua functions: player:GetNumPolicyBranchesAllowed (no setter), player:GetPolicyBranchChosen

    Contained most MOD_BUILDINGS_THOROUGH_PREREQUISITES logic within the new CvCity::GetBuildingTypeFromClass() function

    Made more columns/tables that add yields/happiness to buildings support having more than 1 of the same building in a city (probably still not ALL)

    Unhardcoded (most) theming bonus descriptions

    Removed inaccurate great people counter of both player and city
    - Player version only tracks GG and GA and is never used
    - City version is never updated
    - Associated Lua function: city:GetNumGreatPeople

    Reduced repetitive code with new CvCity::SetNumFreeBuilding() function
    - Refund production/faith and city location validation are optional (default true)

    Changed Lua function city:SetNumFreeBuilding
    - Now takes in optional bRefund and bValidate parameters (default FALSE) and returns whether the city has the correct number of free buildings afterwards
    - Backward compatible
    - Full "declaration": bool SetNumFreeBuilding(BuildingTypes iIndex, int iNewValue, bool bRefund = false, bool bValidate = false)

    Fixed some clang warnings


AI
  City-State Diplomacy
  - AI no longer sends diplomatic units or spies to City-States that have an Open Door or Sphere of Influence resolution currently proposed for them
  - AI no longer sends diplomatic units or spies to City-States allied with their teammates

  Diplomacy
  - Humans can now request coop wars from players they are targeting with coop wars, if they want to
      This was added as anti-AI stupidity but is no longer needed & shouldn't affect humans wanting to backstab
  - AI no longer applies any diplomatic penalties towards other players for having their teammate's religion
  - Reverted AI back to more intelligent calculation of comparative military power
      It was reverted back to the vanilla version because nuclear weapons couldn't be considered since they had no combat strength, however see "Balance - Score" below
  - AI will now refuse/break a "don't settle new cities near us" promise if they have no cities
  - Improvements to AI logic relating to selecting war and demand targets
      Fixed a bunch of bugs (see Bugfixes)
      AIs going for Domination Victory are now programmed to select a target even if it would backstab a friend or their approach isn't negative, if no other valid targets are available
        Some conditions (e.g., recent peace treaty, teamed up with a human, target too distant in early game) override this
      Refusing a trade demand without an immediate war declaration in retaliation no longer deters the AI from declaring war against you
      Accepting a trade demand still does, however - and the AI can tell the difference now
      The deterrence now also ends if the demand expires due to war or sanctions
  - AI no longer adds a FRIENDLY bonus for traded items you're giving to them as part of a demand or peace treaty *IF* they're looking for an opportunity attack against you
      Voluntarily traded or given items still increase the FRIENDLY approach, however
  - AI now more likely to become HOSTILE (or declare war, to a lesser extent) if they think you'd be a good demand target
  - AI now more likely to become GUARDED if you've recently accepted a demand from them, scaling with their vulnerability
  - AI now cannot be FRIENDLY if they're currently giving something to you in a trade demand, and reevaluates its approach instantly
  - Opinion penalty for making trade demands is now halved if the AI is not currently giving anything to you
  - Opinion penalty for making trade demands is now doubled if the AI is currently giving something and is bankrupt
      If the AI will go bankrupt in less than 20 turns, the penalty will gradually increase to 2x based on the number of turns until bankruptcy
      Average instant yield gain is added to the AI's negative GPT for this calculation, so it's not the same as the number displayed in the trade screen
  - Minor improvements relating to vassals choosing approach towards their masters

  Deal AI
  - Minor improvements to third party war valuation logic

  Policy AI
  - AI teammates of humans will attempt to adopt the first human on their team's ideology (sorting by turn order) if it would not make them lose cities from Unhappiness
  - AI teammates of other AIs will adopt the ideology of the clearly leading AI, if the leading AI has at least 1.5x the evaluating AI's score and it would not make the evaluating AI lose cities from Unhappiness
       Being close to a cultural victory adds 100000 score to a team member for this evaluation
  - AI teammates will switch ideologies if they have the option and either of the two conditions above are true

  Religion AI
  - AI will no longer convert foreign cities that are following their teammates' religions
      They will allow human teammates (only) to convert their own cities without reconverting them


Balance
  Complete Kills Game Option
  - If a player stays alive for 10 turns without a Settler or any cities, they receive a free Settler
      Spawn placement order of priority:
      1. Attempt to spawn on top of a land combat unit that is on land (highest defensive strength)
      2. Attempt to spawn on top of a land civilian unit that is on land (highest Production cost, minimum 1)
      3. Spawn on top of a random tile where a city could be founded
           (AI will not pick an Antiquity Site tile; they're disallowed to found on them to circumvent a bug)

  Improvements
  - Improvements created by Great People no longer follow the "take the minimum of time to construct and repair improvement" rule when determining repair time
      i.e., They use the base repair time, they can't be repaired instantly

  Military (Move Troops) Promise
  - Is now mutual - the asker also agrees not to declare war on the player they're requesting the promise from
  - Blocked AI teammates of humans from requesting or accepting move troops promises
  - Also blocked AI from requesting a "don't attack my protected City-State" promise from AI teammates of humans
      These exceptions are to prevent human teammates from incurring backstabbing penalties for promises they weren't aware were made, since AI will penalize an entire team for those penalties

  Score
  - Reverted score back to more intelligent calculation of military power based on attack strength
  - Nuclear weapons now count towards military power, and the AI will evaluate them separately
      Atomic Bombs are worth (strongest land unit in world * (blast radius tiles - 1) * 2) + (strongest land unit in world * 3) + (strongest air unit in world * 12)
      Nuclear Missiles are worth (strongest land unit in world * blast radius tiles * 3) + (strongest air unit in world * 12)
      City-States will just use these numbers as-is for the global military power bonus to tribute, but won't add an additional local military power bonus for nukes located near them
      In AI evaluations, the AI will consider how many of its cities are protected by Strategic Defense Systems, and the stats of those SDS's, as well as use its own strongest units rather than those of the world
      More SDS's = they will see your nukes as less of a threat
      This also applies in reverse, they will consider their own nukes less threatening if their opponent has built SDS's
      The AI also considers the nuclear power of each player's allies
      Additionally, military skill rating or HumanStrengthPerceptionMod (difficulty) has no effect on AI's perception of nuclear power

  Nuke Immunity
  - Added it to Strategic Defense System, even though nukes don't currently destroy buildings in VP
  - Made Nuke Immune buildings unable to be randomly destroyed by events that destroy buildings
      Wonders and dummy buildings were already immune, so their balance is unchanged


UI
- Added a notification when the AI's "don't settle near Cities near us" promise is fulfilled (and might need renewal)
- Clarified some civ text; shortened all civ text to fit within 3 lines of text
- Other text fixes


Bugfixes
- Fixed a crash when determining religious Tourism towards a player with no cities
- Fixed a crash when deleting a City-State from the game with OCC / IGE
- Fixed a crash when scoring religious beliefs without having a capital city
- Fixed various bugs with Diplo AI war and demand logic
    Caused AI to cancel AI operations inappropriately, which made successful operations less likely
- Fixed global City-State quests (e.g., Barbarian Horde) expiring prematurely if a major civ that had the quest died
    This also fixes Barbarians capturing the City-State earlier than they should!
- Fixed AI being overly eager to liberate vassals (added many sanity checks, reduced weights, and added a customizable define)
- Fixed some vassal tax money being lost due to rounding if there are multiple players on the master's team
- Fixed vassal maintenance expenses not being divided evenly amongst members of the master's team
- Fixed vassals adopting the ideology of dead masters if a still-living master is later in the player order
- Fixed Nuclear Gandhi being enabled with Random Personalities enabled and without the relevant override setting enabled
- Fixed Indian Great Prophets perishing immediately if the player chooses to build a Holy Site before founding a religion
- Also unhardcoded this exception so that it works for any improvement that an Indian Great Prophet (or unique Great Prophet) can create, not just Holy Sites
- Fixed human vassals not adopting their master's ideology
- Fixed broken logic preventing AI players from switching ideologies
- Fixed Complete Kills AI not using any Settlers they have to found a new capital
- Fixed Rome getting yields and bonuses from conquered cities that aren't the City-State's original capital
- Fixed purchased Authority units not being able to create Polynesian Fishing Boats
- Fixed Defensive Pacts not being cancelled by denouncements
- Fixed being able to trade Defensive Pacts without mutual embassies
- Fixed player 0's AI personality not initializing correctly when entering observer mode
- Fixed AI not properly recognizing conquered religions as owned in some situations with teammates
- Added unitclass cap check to free unit picker
- Fixed belief yields from working any specialist not being scored by Religion AI
- Removed score nullification if belief gives Science to buildings and player has Chinese trait
    No idea why this was here, but it sure doesn't make sense right now
- Allowed AI to immediately gain a reformation belief if the respective policy is picked, instead of needing to wait for next turn
- Fixed land units not being upgradeable on water polders
- Disallowed units from upgrading while having cargo
    Prevents the case where it upgrades into something that can't carry cargo
    This could already be intended in the base game, but the code was placed in the wrong block
- Removed potential Production/Faith refund for Palace when capital is captured - it's already being refunded by being rebuilt in the new capital

Online as of 12:47 AM CDT on July 10. Not savegame compatible.

This was not extensively tested prior to release - please report any bugs! Also, another savegame incompatible release soon is possible, depending on axatin's city governor changes.

Warning: This will crash in Community Patch only once religious units are created - will be hotfixed soon.

---
Version 4.12.1 has been released. Link above has been updated.

Changelog:

- Fixed crash when AI obtains religious units in Community Patch only
- Fixed Ancient Ruins not giving rewards
- Fixed AI difficulty bonus yields not being given

Online as of 4:33 AM CDT on July 10. Savegame compatible with 4.12 versions.

 

[statusquo]

Quick question, i assume those were implemented mostly in binary files, is there a big risk some new CDT were introduced?
I mean, usually after new releas savest bet is to play without any mods, but i actually want to play with some 4uu or more luxures etc.

 

[Recursive]

Quick question, i assume those were implemented mostly in binary files, is there a big risk some new CDT were introduced?
I mean, usually after new releas savest bet is to play without any mods, but i actually want to play with some 4uu or more luxures etc.

The Supply Rework was implemented entirely in SQL (with DLL integration) and I tested it prior to releasing, so the risk of a CTD is low. It's just changing some preexisting numbers and lines of text.

Promotion Tree is literally a carbon copy of the exact same code as before, except I changed the title and version number. It didn't cause CTDs before, so the risk there is even lower.

There is a small chance that one of the other changes introduced a CTD or that there is one that wasn't fixed from before (it is still a beta version), but testing was done and I would say the odds are rather low.

 

[hokath]

Tourism
- The owner of a religion now gains a Tourism % modifier equal to the % of the target player's population following the religion owner's religion
This stacks up to 50%
Effect is 50% stronger and stacks up to 75% if the Piety branch has been completed
Added functionality to the game database to change this to a per-city bonus

Big hand to @Rekk, this will be huge for keeping Religion relevant past the first half of the game!

 

[Hawawaa]

Thanks!

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Do Research Agreements work now? I posted in the other thread (4.10) but it was closed -- I can explain more if needed.

 

[hokath]

I don't play with them on, sorry
Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

I don't play with them on, sorry
Maybe someone else can chime in.

I'm starting to think the game is evolving where they are better off not used -- I've turned them off for now. Maybe the AI will run away less in the tech lead on Emperor.

 

[Alpharius]

I'm starting to think the game is evolving where they are better off not used -- I've turned them off for now. Maybe the AI will run away less in the tech lead on Emperor.

I personally play with them off since forever, after trying it out for a few games. RAs in VP just don't make sense for me (lump of science when agreement ends) and is too clunky. RAs in Stellaris make more sense, IMO (research bonus/modifier for techs known by research partner)

 

[Orange Chainsaw]

Turn 73 on Standard/King. Around this time I think it's expected that most civs should have a pantheon, unless they're some sort of turbo early warmonger who spent their entire production on units. But when I checked, two of my neighbors were pantheonless. AFAIK, both of these leaders (Ramesses II and Theodora) have a strong preference for religion in their personalities, and there haven't been any wars or conflicts yet. Any idea of what could have caused them to neglect their pantheons?

 

[CivYam]

Some early thoughts on the lower unit supply after starting a game with the modmod:

• Less unit supply makes cities stronger and harder to take down, as they are supply-less. Fortifications may need some tuning (especially early-game).
• Less unit supply means strategic resources are relatively more plentiful. Map tuning may be needed to reduce the supply of strategic resources to make them more "strategic".

Also, I'd like to once again raise the idea of being able to merge units into stronger versions of those units as another possible unit supply tweak, from the late game war tedium discussion:

What about the Civ6 solution of letting you combine units into more powerful versions? That always seemed to me to be an elegant solution, giving you incentive to lower your total amount of units while also increasing your risk (of losing powerful units).

Seems like it would address the tedium issues, would allow for lower supply limits, etc.

 

[Trumtram]

I feel like the supply in earlier eras doesn't need much trimming. But it gets to a point where the supply explodes into absurdity. So maybe a kind of regressive fix to those values might be an idea.
But I haven't played the new supply modmod and am just basing it on recollection rather than hard data.

 

[paul_soryu]

Turn 73 on Standard/King. Around this time I think it's expected that most civs should have a pantheon, unless they're some sort of turbo early warmonger who spent their entire production on units. But when I checked, two of my neighbors were pantheonless. AFAIK, both of these leaders (Ramesses II and Theodora) have a strong preference for religion in their personalities, and there haven't been any wars or conflicts yet. Any idea of what could have caused them to neglect their pantheons?

I noticed a similar thing with military civs not building units. I played as Rome (6th difficulty) and in two consequent games my first neighbour was Sweden (with Authority), and at the time I was ready to start conquering with Legions and Ballistas, Sweden was literally last by army size in the Demographics window, both times. Then, in the second game, I got attacked by the Aztecs (also Authority), who had the army half of my size (like 8 units) and quickly lost. I will try increasing the difficulty next time, but I don't remember 6th difficulty being that easy earlygame.

Also both times Sweden's lands were horribly underdeveloped, like 1 farm and 1 mine on a Luxury. I don't know if this is intended.

 

[Trumtram]

I noticed a similar thing with military civs not building units. I played as Rome (6th difficulty) and in two consequent games my first neighbour was Sweden (with Authority), and at the time I was ready to start conquering with Legions and Ballistas, Sweden was literally last by army size in the Demographics window, both times. Then, in the second game, I got attacked by the Aztecs (also Authority), who had the army half of my size (like 8 units) and quickly lost. I will try increasing the difficulty next time, but I don't remember 6th difficulty being that easy earlygame.

I had this phenomenon, too.
1. I was watching a game in global observer mode and was shocked to see how few units certain Civs were building during the early game. It made me wonder how well a player might actually be able to rush Civs because they would be helpless.
2. I described some early declarations of war where the declaring Civs didn't have units to back it up. That is not always the case but it is super strange if a neighbor declares on you and then they don't send units or might not even have enough of them.

Like I said before: Global observer mode might help immensely with identifying such things.

 

[hokath]

It made me wonder how well a player might actually be able to rush Civs because they would be helpless.

Two games so far and both times I immediately rushed my neighbour as Carthage.
Wasn't sure if they were bad or Carthage UA is too strong.
Maybe both?

 

[saamohod]

Does anyone notice enemy missionaries seemingly "running into" your military units? At the beginning of a turn I sometimes find captured missionaries whom I didn't capture the turn before. Never encountered anything like this.

 

[y10]

Has anyone tried multiplayer in the current version?

 

[Alpharius]

I feel like the supply in earlier eras doesn't need much trimming. But it gets to a point where the supply explodes into absurdity. So maybe a kind of regressive fix to those values might be an idea.
But I haven't played the new supply modmod and am just basing it on recollection rather than hard data.

I've tried Azum's Supply mod (only 1 game so far, about to start my 2nd one) and it definitely feels like it might need some tweaks during early game. I had 20-21 supply during late classical/early medieval which is a bit too low considering I had a lot of in my cities (Tradition) and two wonders providing some supply (Terracotta, Great Wall) along with barracks built in all four of my cities.

I think bringing back the +1 for lighthouse would be fine? IIRC without the mod, supply usually shoots up during late Medieval/early Renaissance when Harbors start getting built in Coastal cities. Not sure though, will test some more in my second game with the supply mod.

 

[snaphance]

Latest version (4.11) crashes game when I activate the mods.
Never mind, it seems to be every version.

 

[Alpharius]

Turn 73 on Standard/King. Around this time I think it's expected that most civs should have a pantheon, unless they're some sort of turbo early warmonger who spent their entire production on units. But when I checked, two of my neighbors were pantheonless. AFAIK, both of these leaders (Ramesses II and Theodora) have a strong preference for religion in their personalities, and there haven't been any wars or conflicts yet. Any idea of what could have caused them to neglect their pantheons?

Spoiler :

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Same thing here with Korea, (standard/Emperor) though they usually found late (if at all) in my games. But T70 without a pantheon

Spoiler :