New BETA Version - 4.12.1 (July 10, 2024)
- Thread starter Recursive
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I ran some games with the unit supply rework and I abandoned them after realizing the AI is badly crippled by it.
Thanks to the observer mode I noticed deity AIs at turn 80-100 with 3-4 cities and only 7-12 units, that's pathetic considering 2-3 of those are scouts and some are barb hunting so the cities are poorly defended against a determined human player. On the other hand wars between AIs end in stalemates, they simply lack the focus and weigth to siege down cities.
The penalities for being over supply cap are not that meaningful when my cap is 8 units, going over the cap by 4 costs me 20% growth/prod for a 50% increase in army strength so I would do that all the time in the early game. Going over the cap by 4 units when my supply limit is 50 for the same penalities and very little gains is obviously not worth it. If I remember correctly the AI has been taught to never go above the military supply due to some bad performances in the past so that's one thing a human can and will take advantage of.
Thanks to the observer mode I noticed deity AIs at turn 80-100 with 3-4 cities and only 7-12 units, that's pathetic considering 2-3 of those are scouts and some are barb hunting so the cities are poorly defended against a determined human player. On the other hand wars between AIs end in stalemates, they simply lack the focus and weigth to siege down cities.
The penalities for being over supply cap are not that meaningful when my cap is 8 units, going over the cap by 4 costs me 20% growth/prod for a 50% increase in army strength so I would do that all the time in the early game. Going over the cap by 4 units when my supply limit is 50 for the same penalities and very little gains is obviously not worth it. If I remember correctly the AI has been taught to never go above the military supply due to some bad performances in the past so that's one thing a human can and will take advantage of.
SuperNoobCamper
King
My experience on deity is quite different to be honest; i had to restart as Japan as i was getting ran over by both Denmark and France with each having over 30ish units.
Currently playing with the supply cap mod. Feels roughly the same as normal (I am about to unlock crossbows), although I probably have 2-5 less units than I normally would at this time, I am currently at ~20.
Won both wars I've fought so far handily, but the two civs I beat were fighting each other at the same time so not the best test.
Difficulty: Emperor.
Won both wars I've fought so far handily, but the two civs I beat were fighting each other at the same time so not the best test.
Difficulty: Emperor.
SuperNoobCamper
King
I feel like the human player is much more crippled by the new supply changes more than the AI; I have 6 cities as Japan all of them with Barracks, walls and teocallis and the max i can get is 20 units on Deity which is really harsh against the endless flod of AI units thay can just be replaced as fast
I'm never sure how to react to that as I am not a Deity player but shouldn't it be a super hard difficulty which borders on the unfair?
Yes.
Based on that:
| Difficulty Flat Supply Bonus | 10 (Settler) to 6 (Deity), AI and City-States have 8 | +2 to the current number | +1 supply in the capital to compensate the loss of supply per city. Additional +1 to compensate the empire size penalty for having a capital. |
| Difficulty-based Supply from Population | 35% (Settler) to 15% (Deity), AI and City-States have 25% | All 20% | AI already gets a food bonus. They naturally have higher population than human players and don't need a higher supply from population %. |
Murderologist
Warlord
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- Jul 14, 2014
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- 166
I cannot found cities with world builder to create scenarios with any of the recent versions since about 4.8
PetrusFons
Chieftain
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- May 31, 2021
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- 8
Hi guys,
for some reason neither local observer or global observer hotkeys are working for me, i've checked all the hotkeys used in windows with hotkey screener and no other program are using the combination. there's something else that is needed to use these mode?
for some reason neither local observer or global observer hotkeys are working for me, i've checked all the hotkeys used in windows with hotkey screener and no other program are using the combination. there's something else that is needed to use these mode?
SuperNoobCamper
King
The lower supply is muh more significant on earlier eras especially classical and medieval, after that it's manageable but during this particular period -which coincides with the period at which the AI gets most of it's bonuses and usually runs ahead of human player- it's very tough to mange.
It is hard due to both better AI choices on one hand and a lot of bonuses on the other hand; not unfair in my opinion but artificially raising the difficulty by handicapping the player more than the AI is not a good way to balance it in my opinion.
I agree. Could we remove the difference in supply between player and AI? Just like we did with some other AI bonuses.
Tried another game with the unit supply mod as Venice to try out tall (also on Deity). In my other game as Mongolia, I felt severely constrained by lack of supply. In contrast, with Venice, my supply consistently outpaced my need. I think maybe some of the bonuses to Tall play are overweighted when all your cities are puppets?
Apart from Venice, I generally agree with some of the other impressions in this thread - early game seems difficult, some AIs seem to be producing a lot less units than I'm used to seeing. Haven't yet gotten to late game though.
Apart from Venice, I generally agree with some of the other impressions in this thread - early game seems difficult, some AIs seem to be producing a lot less units than I'm used to seeing. Haven't yet gotten to late game though.
While we are in topic around Venice, could any of the relatively recent changes have affected Venice AI? I've met them in 3 or 4 rounds recently, on King difficulty, on 4.X versions, and every round they went Progress, into Statecraft or Artistry, and they are using GMerchants only to settle new puppets, have not seen them purchase a single CS in games going for 200+, 300+ turns (Standard speed).
Also on side note in my recent rounds Tradition AIs have tendency to settle more cities than Progress AIs (my current game on turn 208 standard has: Songhai - Authority 17 cities [12 settled, 5 conquered], Indonesia - Tradition 9 cities, Babylon - Progress 5 cities, Germany - Progress 7 cities, Ethiopia - Tradition 8 cities, Venice - Progress 5 cities, 7th was Aztecs but they got conquered by Songhai before i met them with only 3 cities settled looking at their names, but i assume they were Auth)
Also on side note in my recent rounds Tradition AIs have tendency to settle more cities than Progress AIs (my current game on turn 208 standard has: Songhai - Authority 17 cities [12 settled, 5 conquered], Indonesia - Tradition 9 cities, Babylon - Progress 5 cities, Germany - Progress 7 cities, Ethiopia - Tradition 8 cities, Venice - Progress 5 cities, 7th was Aztecs but they got conquered by Songhai before i met them with only 3 cities settled looking at their names, but i assume they were Auth)
I'm only exporting a Lapis
Murderologist
Warlord
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- Jul 14, 2014
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- 166
Any help or guidance with getting 4.10 or 4.11 to work with world builder would be greatly appreciated.
How much more supply do you think you would need? Maybe going a bit over the supply is the play here.
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