New Beta Version - August 16th (8/16)

[legoras]

Same happen to me, without tech trading. In my last two games I produced way more science than the AI (according to InfoAddict) but in the Modern Era I was already 5 techs behind, and in the Information era, 10 techs behind from all civs (still producing more science) and having consecutive golden ages.

Yep, I got the same but with enabled tech trade (only possible to trade tech that research by own). I produce 2k sience, second gandhi 1.2k (from more than 70 turns I produce +50% more sience than him, according to InfoAddic) but he is always 1-3 tech behind, end of Atomic era, I have 7 cities, he 6 non puppet cities.
I just fell to be.. cheated HARD.

*Emperor

 

[a3kov]

Same happen to me, without tech trading. In my last two games I produced way more science than the AI (according to InfoAddict) but in the Modern Era I was already 5 techs behind, and in the Information era, 10 techs behind from all civs (still producing more science) and having consecutive golden ages.

@Gazebo has ABC science been increased in the last hotfixes ? This is not normal. Egypt and Brazil having same number of tech as Maya - should never happen (at least on Immortal). Brazil also 2-3 policies ahead of everyone, which I accept as culture is their thing, but they should not be culture king and science king at the same time. And in the case of Brazil it's not snowballing - they only have 5 cities and 2 wonders.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Not sure is considered a bug or a set feature but if possible could you make it so you can offer or request upwards of 9999 gold in trades. It wont let me add more then 4 numbers.

Yeah, this has been the case for some time. Happened to me as well.

It used to be 15 culture from the opener, it's an unlisted change.

If I understand correctly, it was only ever 15/policy in the draft for this version. It was changed from the draft notes but it's actually the same as the previous beta.

-The Netherlands UA fixes Progress' culture issue rather well

Progress doesn't have enough culture? First time I've heard that.

Okay now hear me out, are Nukes maybe a bit too expensive to build? 10700 production... that's a lot.

Relative to the price of other military at the time it seems balanced. Equivalent cost to 4 rocket artillery or 4 xcom-troopers. I'd hope a nuclear missile would have at least as much impact as they do .

With regard to my own games, I did notice the AI are doing well in terms of science but not in a way that's insurmountable. I also noticed bit more competitiveness in terms of wonders which is good. The AI do seem too keen to declare war sometimes, but I understand there are adjustments planned in that area.

Spoiler Not this time! :

Spoiler Olives and Spices :

 

[CrazyG]

If I understand correctly, it was only ever 15/policy in the draft for this version. It was changed from the draft notes but it's actually the same as the previous beta.

Opener, not per policy.

It has been 15 culture from the opener for a long time. The additional policies give 10 like normal.

Progress doesn't have enough culture? First time I've heard that.

I can count 4 separate threads discussing progress lacking culture.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Opener, not per policy.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. I didn't realise that had changed.

I can count 4 separate threads discussing progress lacking culture.

Am I missing something? I see three threads by the same person, each of which compares Progress vs. Tradition in a specific game. The last being a discussion the theme which inspired said tests, how Progress does in early expansion.

Edit: having done some reading of those threads, I see your concern. Certainly Tradition has a very strong start, and an advantage in that area. I don't find progress being culture-weak to be the obvious conclusion though.

 

[CrazyG]

Am I missing something? I see three threads by the same person, each of which compares Progress vs. Tradition in a specific game. The last being a discussion the theme which inspired said tests, how Progress does in early expansion

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/need-advice-on-deity-progress.662460/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tradition-vs-progress-3-a-side-by-side-comparison.662580/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/progress-and-early-settling.658388/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tradition-vs-progress-2-a-side-by-side-comparison.662524/

 

[Recursive]

@Gazebo has ABC science been increased in the last hotfixes ? This is not normal. Egypt and Brazil having same number of tech as Maya - should never happen (at least on Immortal). Brazil also 2-3 policies ahead of everyone, which I accept as culture is their thing, but they should not be culture king and science king at the same time. And in the case of Brazil it's not snowballing - they only have 5 cities and 2 wonders.

Doubled.

 

[JamesNinelives]

So on this patch, progress gives 10 culture for discovering a tech, plus 10 more per additional policy. It used to be 15 culture from the opener, it's an unlisted change.

Is this intentional?

I just checked and you are right. I don't know. Perhaps one of the devs can answer.

 

[Deljade]

@JamesNinelives
Progress does lack early culture I feel, I often unlock a tech and not have enough policies for the wonders, this almost never happens with Tradition. And early lack of culture compounds as unlocking of future, culture-enhancing policies is delayed. But I don't think Progress is weak

 

[JamesNinelives]

Progress does lack early culture I feel, I often unlock a tech and not have enough policies for the wonders, this almost never happens with Tradition.

That's fair. I think Progress can do well in culture long-term, but it's certainly not as easy when going for early wonders.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Epic speed, Emperor, Standard size 8 civs 16 CS
Had kind of slow start but enough settling spots for around 10 cities so i guessed playing wide progress & turtling till renaissance then going on a conquer spree would be a good idea, right?
Authority Mongolia with 5 cities happened to be just a few water tiles across sea ..... a small melee army and a couple of archers would be enough to repel their embarked forces till medieval and my big brain plan would work in the end, right?

Spoiler Spoiler :

Aside from the current issue with wide happiness and the civilians bug *gotta report as soon as i get home*, i'm blown away by the current patch performance.

• Tactical AI keeps getting better and better, it still does some wacky stuff like dipping way too deep into my formation and sometimes loses units unnecessarily but the bigger offenders like putting siege units in the frontlines are no longer there.
• I absolutely love how opportunistic the AI was in my last two games that i legit restarted one of them because i got my ass kicked real hard losing two cities out of 6 in the classical era by a conjoint war declared by two AIs (Surprisingly they were tradition Ethiopia that hated me for religious difference and Progress Brazil) at two opposite fronts (Playing the donut mapscript with ocean in the middle) at the same time .... Eventually i was able to recover them but i was just so far behind in terms of infrastructre, policies, army and economy that there was no way i was going to be able to compete on the long run even if the inevitable DOW by the same two civs that hate me does not happen anytime soon.
• Early game deals for strategics seems fine but luxury value for gold seems consistently low.
• A simple balance concern regarding Assyria is their unique NW; i don't think it's availability at writing changes much since it's tied to growing to a certain population that there is no way you can get to that population unless you have the most fertile lands playing tradition on floodplains with some luck too .... I think we could probably try reducing the population target a tad bit if the earlier availability is to supposed to be relevant.

 

[Hinin]

A next version of the "MoreGP" module is almost ready with 475 new GPs of all kinds.
What you need to know is that @adan_eslavo, @Hinin and @pineappledan are working together to produce good quality recordings of literary quotes (GW)
I can tell you they are doing it very seriously...

VERY seriously. (dedicated to @adan_eslavo )

 

[a3kov]

Doubled.

And the reason ? I don't want to beta test cheating AI

 

[Gazebo]

@Gazebo has ABC science been increased in the last hotfixes ? This is not normal. Egypt and Brazil having same number of tech as Maya - should never happen (at least on Immortal). Brazil also 2-3 policies ahead of everyone, which I accept as culture is their thing, but they should not be culture king and science king at the same time. And in the case of Brazil it's not snowballing - they only have 5 cities and 2 wonders.

Doubled.

It was increased, but also decreased as it now is divided by the number of owned cities.

 

[a3kov]

It was increased, but also decreased as it now is divided by the number of owned cities.

Yes I remember about the division part, but I missed the increase. Also this is the first game where the unfairness of their bonus is so obvious. I'm ok when another science civ is on par, or even beating me to a few techs, but Brazil ? Come on.

 

[Gidoza]

It was increased, but also decreased as it now is divided by the number of owned cities.

Ah - when I first read it, I thought that the production value was the same as before, but evenly distributed amongst all cities. I think this might be an alternative interesting way of doing this.

 

[Recursive]

It was increased, but also decreased as it now is divided by the number of owned cities.

Science, Culture, Gold and GAP were flat out doubled. Food and Production were doubled and then decreased.

 

[Stalker0]

Yes I remember about the division part, but I missed the increase. Also this is the first game where the unfairness of their bonus is so obvious. I'm ok when another science civ is on par, or even beating me to a few techs, but Brazil ? Come on.

So far I still think the overall difficulty has gone down, though the recent hotfixes improved it. I am comfortably winning immortal games now, whereas I've been playing more Emperor before the patch.

 

[a3kov]

So far I still think the overall difficulty has gone down, though the recent hotfixes improved it. I am comfortably winning immortal games now, whereas I've been playing more Emperor before the patch.

The early game is definitely easier. But the late game may turn out too unpredictable. I mean, if the top science civ in the game with 7 cities and 11 wonders can't beat non-science civ with 5 cities and 2 wonders, then what is the point ? Let's just hope they research all tech but don't build the SS parts ?

 

[Voremonger]

I played a wide militaristic game where I reduced the needs increase per City from 9% to 3% and it made the game much more enjoyable for me.
I was spending less time worrying about Happiness and more time worrying about which territory I should try to secure.
When I was sanctioned by the World Congress it meant reduced Growth and Production going towards Public Works instead of a death sentence.
For now I'll probably just keep this change as a band-aid fix for wide Happiness.