New Beta Version - August 6th (8/6)

[Owlbebach]

I have had some good starts. But I have never had such a start that I would have 7 cities with 3 pastures each or 4 plantations. One city sure. 2 cities ok. 3 cities...yeah. 7?!!

Well, have you ever had 10 Quarries? I was saying about ideal situation. But i had 3 plantations / pastures in a city. Okay 5 was too much, but 3 for sure.

Is this a serious response? Pasture pantheon? You are going to whine about low faith then suggest pasture pantheon? If I have a bunch of jade hills and I'm seriously considering pasture pantheon?

This was cheap and demagogic. This comparison is incorrect and it is really strange that i need to explain this too you, especially considering that i think that you are the most competent and intelligent person on that forum. You should compare Craftsmen on Jade with Open Sky on Pastures. And yes i do complaing about it being low on faith because to start improving a Pasture i need to research 1 technology, while for quarry i need 3 or better to say 4 (including Pottery, or should i delay 2nd Settler to turn 40?).

Or offer a decent suggestion? Because if your criticism is "quarries take a long time to build", it sounds like you think we should just delete quarry pantheon? That part isn't going to change.

I think i did offer and actually several. 1) +1 Faith on Stone without improvements 2) +1 Science on Monument instead of Culture or Gold.

both overshot, the plantation one grossly so

Agree for plantation, my fault, but not for pastures. I had cities with 6 of them. For Springtime - agree, just messed food and gold cause i haven't played for months.

I would have nothing against current state of Craftsmen if Pottery is one of prerequisites for Construction, but it is not. Thats the main problem. Not the yields themselves.

 

[Gazebo]

Save game compatible?

He founded turn 41 in my game. Its unwinnable now

Yes, but for the wisdom bug (which I didn't discover until this morning's AI log) he'll still have the faith he collected from the other save - the faith per turn will drop, though.

G

 

[chicorbeef]

Well, have you ever had 10 Quarries? I was saying about ideal situation. But i had 3 plantations / pastures in a city. Okay 5 was too much, but 3 for sure.

This was cheap and demagogic. This comparison is incorrect and it is really strange that i need to explain this too you, especially considering that i think that you are the most competent and intelligent person on that forum. You should compare Craftsmen on Jade with Open Sky on Pastures. And yes i do complaing about it being low on faith because to start improving a Pasture i need to research 1 technology, while for quarry i need 3 or better to say 4 (including Pottery, or should i delay 2nd Settler to turn 40?).

I think i did offer and actually several. 1) +1 Faith on Stone without improvements 2) +1 Science on Monument instead of Culture or Gold.

Agree for plantation, my fault, but not for pastures. I had cities with 6 of them. For Springtime - agree, just messed food and gold cause i haven't played for months.

I would have nothing against current state of Craftsmen if Pottery is one of prerequisites for Construction, but it is not. Thats the main problem. Not the yields themselves.

I'm going to post my response in the Pantheon thread.

 

[tu_79]

Let's refrain from comparing the size of our handicaps here, okay?

Anyways, small hotfix inbound for some reported and unreported issues.

https://mega.nz/#!mYsx2ZiY!xF39ukyKBCIrJgg5mg78E_FrKb7gni-YcnHvXIz6kJo

G

I'm noticing that Military statistics are showing something like military power / number of cities. It's funny. Most other civs are scared of my army, suggesting me to attack here and there, but the statistics say I'm 6th out of 8 in military power, while India, which I've recently vassallaged, it's shown as number one. This is in King.

 

[arthurF]

Does the hotfix fix the supply cap problems? I know i'm not the only one seeing them...

 

[Gazebo]

Does the hotfix fix the supply cap problems? I know i'm not the only one seeing them...

Do you now...because you're the only one reporting them.

G

 

[arthurF]

Dude.

tbh, this is almost first time I had that amount of unit supplies, especially at pre-renaissance.
I have about 16 unit supply before entering the classical era, and it continues to deteriorate until my current era to 10!
I am expecting it to become higher since I built walls and barracks on all of my cities.

EDIT: I also built stables, still nothing happens. My population exceeds at 10, so there should be more unit supplies, right?

I stopped playing since it is pretty dangerous to play with extremely low unit supplies, however, I noticed that no one declares war with anyone, as if everyone has this problem in my game?

I couldn't see any AI bulk of army anywhere when I'm spreading my religion.

Do you now...because you're the only one reporting them.

G

 

[Tzar Sasha]

Just started a new game with this beta this morning. Celts, difficulty 2.
I managed to get Terracotta Army. Between that and building a few units, I have been riding my supply cap.
I have 5 cities: capital in the 20s others around 10.

What I am seeing is with almost every tech I'll go from 17/17 down to 17/16. After I get a building built to increase cap it will go back to 17/17. This repeated a lot. Eventually, I reached 17/18 and built a caravel to help explore the ocean. Only a few turns later when I got a new tech my supply changed to 18/17.

I'm wondering if the supply cap is rounding up in some situations and rounding down in others. That might account for this fluctuation. Don't think one can suddenly go from supporting 17 to only supporting 16 simply by gaining new tech, changing era etc. Unless their is loss of citizens, buildings, cities etc supply should either go up or stay static.

I'm not using the 43 civ but rather standard with EUI. I did set up a map with max 22 civs and max city states. There have been wars going on and I was just DoW'd by The Huns as I'm nearing the end of the Medieval era. A later DoW than I had in the stable release which is fine by me.

Only one other mod in use, it is the Wonder Race mod from Steam Workshop. If something like that could be incorporated, I'd drop it. I do like knowing if I am ahead or behind in production on a wonder.

 

[Guynemer]

Do you now...because you're the only one reporting them.

G

I didn't get the chance to post before heading out to dinner with friends, and won't have the chance to test the new beta tonight, but I was also having supply problems. Got an Admiral, spent him for the luxuries, and my cap did not move.

 

[pandasnail]

Do you now...because you're the only one reporting them.

G

Did you see what I posted in the github post Enrico made? I'm at least having issues with the conscripted units, and the numbers seem both lower and drop oddly as well. The second part could be intentional, but well, I kinda hope not lol. Pretty much all the other recent changes I love, so if it is intentional, I'll just change it to higher myself one way or another, but if there is an issue, let me know if you need more saves.

The example from a normal game was that when I conquered and annexed an AI capital, my supply went from 21 to 18, and then also later, I got a puppet in the peace deal, it went down from 18 to 16. None of this was weariness, all tech level. Normal or no? (My cities weren't the absolute greatest, so the initial 21 is probably understandable on its own.)

(Haven't tried the hotfix and did add both the 4UC mod and Enlightenment Era for that game, which is why I reluctant to make the initial report myself.)

 

[Gazebo]

Dude.

Don't 'dude' me - post it on github, I don't troll each post in the forums. Enrico posted on your behalf, but you were (as of writing that post) the only person reporting it on github.

Did you see what I posted in the github post Enrico made? I'm at least having issues with the conscripted units, and the numbers seem both lower and drop oddly as well. The second part could be intentional, but well, I kinda hope not lol. Pretty much all the other recent changes I love, so if it is intentional, I'll just change it to higher myself one way or another, but if there is an issue, let me know if you need more saves.

The example from a normal game was that when I conquered and annexed an AI capital, my supply went from 21 to 18, and then also later, I got a puppet in the peace deal, it went down from 18 to 16. None of this was weariness, all tech level. Normal or no? (My cities weren't the absolute greatest, so the initial 21 is probably understandable on its own.)

(Haven't tried the hotfix and did add both the 4UC mod and Enlightenment Era for that game, which is why I reluctant to make the initial report myself.)

Cities have an 'exponential' effect on the cap modifier - going wide quickly will result in a lower cap, whereas pop growth is more valuable now. Tech level is less important as well, so that the primary factor is expansion v. growth.

G

 

[arthurF]

In spite of G implying that the hotfix didn't fix supply issues, since "your're the only one reporting them", I installed the hotfix, loaded a save game, and my supply cap went from 24 to 27..so Something was fixed there.

 

[Gazebo]

In spite of G implying that the hotfix didn't fix supply issues, since "your're the only one reporting them", I installed the hotfix, loaded a save game, and my supply cap went from 24 to 27..so Something was fixed there.

Stop with the sass, man. I didn't touch supply in the hotfix, so it is very possible it was an installation glitch, which can very well happen.

In any case, issues should always be reported to github, it is so much easier for me to keep track of things that way.

G

 

[pandasnail]

Don't 'dude' me - post it on github, I don't troll each post in the forums. Enrico posted on your behalf, but you were (as of writing that post) the only person reporting it on github.



Cities have an 'exponential' effect on the cap modifier - going wide quickly will result in a lower cap, whereas pop growth is more valuable now. Tech level is less important as well, so that the primary factor is expansion v. growth.

G

Well, I don't think taking a city should ever reduce it by three, especially since its not that high to begin with. And it was only my 8th city total.

But at the same time, I guess its time for me to completely and totally accept that I've lost on the supply cap argument in general, esp with the 'going for gold.' I continue to think its made 1 vs 1 wars considerably less engaging and compelling. I mean, the percentage of bloodbaths (in my favor) has gone up for sure. It was worse when Terracotta was OP, but even now. Yes, the diplomacy of making sure I don't face 3 on 1s is more important, but I don't think its a worthwhile trade off. But I lost this argument 18 months ago and I feel confident I'd lose it again now.

So, awkward question time . . . is there anything in 'Custom Mod Options' or one of those, that will let me turn off the reductions? Then I can try to balance out the various increases.

 

[Gazebo]

Well, I don't think taking a city should ever reduce it by three, especially since its not that high to begin with. And it was only my 8th city total.

But at the same time, I guess its time for me to completely and totally accept that I've lost on the supply cap argument in general, esp with the 'going for gold.' I continue to think its made 1 vs 1 wars considerably less engaging and compelling. I mean, the percentage of bloodbaths (in my favor) has gone up for sure. It was worse when Terracotta was OP, but even now. Yes, the diplomacy of making sure I don't face 3 on 1s is more important, but I don't think its a worthwhile trade off. But I lost this argument 18 months ago and I feel confident I'd lose it again now.

So, awkward question time . . . is there anything in 'Custom Mod Options' or one of those, that will let me turn off the reductions? Then I can try to balance out the various increases.

This is a beta...for testing...no need to get so testy.

G

 

[pandasnail]

This is a beta...for testing...no need to get so testy.

G

I promise I'm not being testy or anything like that, but I realize tone is impossible to decipher online, so my apologies if my word choice came off that way. Its just..the tight supply cap is a feature I never liked and so I'm wondering if reverting it is locked into the dll or if there is an option somewhere. And I've read thru the going for gold post on supply cap, and it seems like more people want it even lower than to go back to the old days, so it would be a waste of everyone's time for me to try to write up an essay on getting it changed.

 

[pandasnail]

Ok I found it I think, so nevermind I'll stop bothering you about it now.

I should say, to be clear, while I don't like this one feature, this mod in general is without a doubt one of my two favorite games of all time, and its incredible how much time, effort, intelligence, and creativity you, Ilteroi, and others have put into it. I mean there's a reason I only played Vanilla like five times, and am still playing this awesome game after three years.

 

[xerxesjc28]

^^ Indeed, I don't need civ 6 when this insane mod makes this game great. I play some pretty in dept games such as EU IV since I found vanilla civ too simple. But with this mod the complexity of the game is very similar and I like that.

When will the non-beta version for 7/15 or 8/6 version come out? Also, where can I download the non-auto installer of these version of the mod? I like playing/installing the mod from the DLC folder, which also allows multiplayer.

I was playing the version before the 7/15 version but I just can't get past mid game (a bit after spies come out) where happiness goes crazy. Jumping from +60 to 0 to -30 in just a turn or two after I steal a tech. So I am hopping this version fixes this issue, does it?

Thank you.

 

[CrazyG]

I'm wondering if the supply cap is rounding up in some situations and rounding down in others. That might account for this fluctuation. Don't think one can suddenly go from supporting 17 to only supporting 16 simply by gaining new tech, changing era etc. Unless their is loss of citizens, buildings, cities etc supply should either go up or stay static.

So the supply cap slowly drops over time. Its tied to the discovery of technologies. Its weird at first.

It was added to avoid the situation in the late game where you had 100 supply. You get more supply more population growth, ideally it about cancels out the drop from techs. Generally I try to stay with 1 spare supply, unless I'm under extreme pressure.

 

[Viralvoid]

This is weird, I am first in demographics on soldiers with only 14 units.
This is on IMMORTAL, if this is a bug, I'll report this on github then.
So even the AI were suffering from the "supply bug".