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New Beta Version - February 18th (2-18)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Crashes are always worth reporting.
     
  2. PapaRockett

    PapaRockett Prince

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    Hmm, are the AI handicaps the side effect that's causing me to have massive happiness issues? Global median or whatever

    Struggling in all areas (boredom, poverty, illiteracy) can't say it's fun if that's the case
     
    Crag Hack likes this.
  3. SupremoBean

    SupremoBean Chieftain

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    Alright, I'll get on it.
     
  4. andersw

    andersw King

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    I also get recurring crash in the early game that I can't get past, but will clear cache and test a new game.
    Looks scary now, AI got their first 3 cities a bit fast.
     
    WarDude76 and JamesNinelives like this.
  5. Balint2

    Balint2 Chieftain

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    This seems to make ITRs much worse for the AI compared to ETRs.
    Shouldnt the AI receive some of these bonuses for completing an ITR too? Like 1/2 of those yields or stg?
     
  6. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Here you go, this DLL is identical to the current one, except that the AI doesn't receive a bonus from settling its capital (I changed one line to re-add the "!isCapital()" check).

    Just make sure to mention that you're using it if you're giving feedback.
     

    Attached Files:

    MIS, vyyt, vuko and 10 others like this.
  7. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    Variability is great for some things but is that what we want for the difficulty curve?
     
  8. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    I think this is an excellent illustration of the problem.


    With regard to an earlier poster - I'd be more in favour of an AI bonus every 20 turns or so. It's the same for all AI's, zero variability.
     
  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    So a quick datapoint after a few quick games. Previously on Immortal, Stonehenge/Pyramids were being completed in the 28-34 turn range (28 being the very fast like Washington style players). So in general I played to a Turn 28-30 build as a "reasonably solid opener".

    The AI has been snagging both wonders now by Turn 22. Phew...I think these wonders just went from "a solid option" to "AI exclusive". Without a booster like Washington, or a production ruin, I'm not sure how to build the wonders that quick.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  10. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    Might want to drop down two levels...
    Spoiler :
    Screenshot (124).png
    I basically rushed Halicarnassus and still lost it with 2 turns to go around turn 50 (even with a marble/stone prod bonus...). Also, all 5 religions were founded by turn 100; I picked springtime for my silk and nearby citrus + citrus, and I actually had solid faith output once my plantations and herbalists were online, thinking I could realistically scoop the last religion, but I ended up still being 20 turns away from my prophet. Previously on emperor that would net me a religion.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  11. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    Ouch yeah that's no good. The early wonders should always be human-available. I'm a vote for no bonus to AI for first city for sure.

    I'm still not a fan of the crappy wonder rewards for failing to complete and still am not convinced that much better ones are reasonable, but whatever.
     
    vyyt and JamesNinelives like this.
  12. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    I'd argue there's value to it. It's meant to simulate a skilled human player's strategic optimizations, etc. so it makes sense that the more successful AIs would receive larger bonuses. And it ensures a challenge.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  13. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Warlord

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    Going to start on Emperor instead of Deity, hearing the magnitude of this, and hoping not to get blown out even so.

    With regards to international trade routes, maybe their vanilla (AI and human) completions need to be re-buffed, and probably with something other than tourism? If the AI is going to get massive bonuses for risking ITRs and completing them, feels thematic for the human to be able to try to do it too.
     
  14. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    There's a difference between snowballing from overall good play and disproportionately favoring certain platstyles though.

    I agree with Gidoza, why not just have the bonus apply every X turns? I would say around every 5 turns to make it more predictable
     
    Heinz_Guderian, Bascule2000 and vuko like this.
  15. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    That doesn't make any sense. One of the main complaints I see on this forum is *about* snowballing and the impossibility of preventing it, and that includes human snowballing. We do not need more of this.

    In that vein, I simply do not understand the reduction in science cost of Information-age techs in a recent patch, as space-faring was already occurring around turn 400, which is far too early. I'd rather see a price increase of 10% in all ages to slow things down just a little.

    Returning to snowballing - part of the point t of higher tech costs and policy costs of having more cities is to curb snowballing. It also doesn't make any sense now to argue that "difficulty" ought to be related to the capability of an AI to snowball based on other variable factors, or why even have some of the most basic features in the game in place at all? This strikes me as silly.
     
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  16. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    This optimization of workers was so necessary and I'm thankful that it's been addressed (along with Pioneer fix); as you already pointed out, this in itself should increase early game difficulty. Does this also apply to worker automation for humans as well?
     
  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yup. You can try it out and see. Things to watch out for: if the workers get caught in a 'replace improvement loop,' let me know. (i.e. farm->village->farm->village over and over on a tile).

    G
     
  18. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Hmm, you have a point. It's just my opinion, anyway, don't take it as an Official Developer Statement. I only really focus on diplomacy :)
     
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  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'm seeing the AI consistently hit SS parts around year 2010 now, which is more in-line with game pace than before.

    G
     
  20. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    For the record, the initial reason for the ABC bonuses (when founding cities & co) was that previous kind of bonuses fell apart in the late game, and was not able to catch back the human if it fell apart, making the end game particularly boring. Hence the need for a quadratic bonus, that gives a LOT to the AIs in late game, so that a "second/third place AI" behind the human gets a chance to overthrow the human leader if the human stop playing smartly.

    While the early game effects of those founding/GP/etc bonuses is not to be neglected, their purpose is to be late game bonuses for all contenders to the victory
    (Without having players complaining that the negligible civs come back from ashes for absolutely no reason other than obvious "cheating" because of difficulty bonuses. Difficulty bonuses are a rough subject because not everyone has the same notion of "fair" and "acceptable" bonuses for the AI.)
     
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