New Beta Version - February 1st (2/1)

[Txurce]

If we had a listener for when a city flipped, I could just give an event to the major civ allowing them to either annex it or leave it as a barbarian city...

That sounds interesting!

 

[pza]

Also: could we have an option to deactivate this? i already hated city flipping in civ 3 but it was at least possible to deactivate it. I might not be alone here, and new players might get afraid of this feature, too.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I think they are more afraid of this unhappiness system.
Some turns Iam bouncing 10 happiness up and down, up and down.
The treshold system is now too dominating in my opinion. While some of the tenets of ideologies give only +1 per city/builing, picking the tenet academy of science (free public school and 10% reduced illiteracy treshold) gave me 30 happiness... shot up from 5 to 35.
The game shouldnt be centered on that happiness system.
Even I dont like it, I will now rush scientific theory in every game, cause it has 2 big treshold reduction buildings without you are crippled......

Edit: And the reduced purchase cost from byzantine isnt represented for atuomated prophets spawn. If I pick resilence, I can buy prophets cheaper than it will spawn automatically. And is it also intended, Glory of god enables you to buy every GP with the exception of prophets?

 

[psparky]

If we had a listener for when a city flipped, I could just give an event to the major civ allowing them to either annex it or leave it as a barbarian city...

That sounds interesting. It feels like there should be a way to avoid per city penalties when a city flips to you. Unless there has been a fairly recent change, immediately razing a city does not avoid the penalty (unlike in vanilla).

 

[Enginseer]

That sounds interesting!

That sounds interesting. It feels like there should be a way to avoid per city penalties when a city flips to you. Unless there has been a fairly recent change, immediately razing a city does not avoid the penalty (unlike in vanilla).

Unfortunately, the technology just isn't there yet.

 

[Stalker0]

We often say "happiness can change quickly". In my current game, I thought this was was a good example.

Now this isn't actually a complaint for the most part, the AI just played well in this instance, so I give it all due credit.

I was at 25 happiness when I got declared war on by 3 civs at once. 2 turns later I was at -40 unhappiness.

1) 21 unhappy from war weariness (this stuff ramps up fast!)
2) 20 from isolation (paratrooper cut a key rail line...this one in particular was my fault for having such a vulnerability)
3) Boredom went from 9 to 20.
4) Some pillaged tile and poverty unhappiness from loss of trade routes.

The barbs started coming in and pillaging more tiles. One more turn later I was at -50 happy. So -25 happy a turn!


The one point I will make is I still think barbs should not exist along with the city revolts. I think both are too punishing.

 

[Txurce]

We often say "happiness can change quickly". In my current game, I thought this was was a good example.

Now this isn't actually a complaint for the most part, the AI just played well in this instance, so I give it all due credit.

I was at 25 happiness when I got declared war on by 3 civs at once. 2 turns later I was at -40 unhappiness.

1) 21 unhappy from war weariness (this stuff ramps up fast!)
2) 20 from isolation (paratrooper cut a key rail line...this one in particular was my fault for having such a vulnerability)
3) Boredom went from 9 to 20.
4) Some pillaged tile and poverty unhappiness from loss of trade routes.

The barbs started coming in and pillaging more tiles. One more turn later I was at -50 happy. So -25 happy a turn!


The one point I will make is I still think barbs should not exist along with the city revolts. I think both are too punishing.

1Are you playing with the old patch still?

As far as I know, you should have zeio war weariness after two turns.

I don't know why isolation should be more punishing late game.

Boredom may have to do with less fun due to lost luxuries.

 

[pza]

Boredom may have to do with less fun due to lost luxuries.

i'm not sure if i got you right, but boredom is the simple comparison of the city's culture versus a number, which is determined by the culture of other civs and culture need reduction buildings like arena. it has nothing to do with luxuries. it's all about culture.
the same goes for crime, poverty and illiteracy:
for crime it compares the city strength versus a number.
for poverty it compares gold production versus a number. your current amount of money you have doesn't play a role.
for illiteracy it compares science production versus a number. you can be 10 techs ahead and still have illiteracy.

1) 21 unhappy from war weariness (this stuff ramps up fast!)

this depends on your losses. avoid unit losses and dont lose cities, even newly conquered ones.

I'm not sure if this scales with map size, because on larger maps you will have more units and therefore more losses, though. can someone tell?

 

[ryanmusante]

this depends on your losses. avoid unit losses and dont lose cities, even newly conquered ones.

I'm not sure if this scales with map size, because on larger maps you will have more units and therefore more losses, though. can someone tell?

I wasn't even aware of that, losing a unit to death is calculated in and scales with game speed also?

 

[pza]

I wasn't even aware of that, losing a unit to death is calculated in and scales with game speed also?

if it scales with game speed, it shouldn't. game speed doesn't affect unit count.

 

[Gidoza]

Unfortunately, the technology just isn't there yet.

It would be nice if the science/culture penalty only took into consideration founded/annexed cities and just reverted back to the normal values when a city is lost or razed. It strikes me as odd to suffer a penalty for the rest of the game for a city you no longer have.

 

[pza]

It would be nice if the science/culture penalty only took into consideration founded/annexed cities and just reverted back to the normal values when a city is lost or razed. It strikes me as odd to suffer a penalty for the rest of the game for a city you no longer have.

if i capture a city and raze it, i still pay more for my policies and techs after its gone??

 

[Gidoza]

if i capture a city and raze it, i still pay more for my policies and techs after its gone??

Policies no, but techs I do believe yes - if someone else can confirm, that would be nice. As soon as you annex a city, you're paying more science [and culture], and if you lose/raze it, the culture penalty vanishes but the science penalty does not.

 

[Jakethedane]

If what im reading is true, thats a huge deal and needs to be fixed. How many cities pointlessly join me to get Razed? They only make the game worse for me and I cant stop them? lol

 

[Stalker0]

Just finished up my latest. Standard Emperor Playing Morocco. On a terra communitas map. Science Victory on Turn 416.

I decided to try and adjust my handicaps slightly, going for more difficulty mid game and a little less late game. A = 80, B = 150, C = 300.

For those who read my epic game of woe last time, had the complete opposite experience this time. Early game the Aztecs were causing trouble and angering everyone, so I denounced them. And man that may have been my best diplomatic decision EVER! Everyone started to like me. "You hate the Aztecs...me too! We should be eternal friends!" Meanwhile the Aztecs were so beat up by everyone else he was like "So....want to trade?". It was diplomatic heaven for most of the game.

So I started off Progress going into Statecraft. I know statecraft hasn't gotten much attention lately because fealty is common, but its just a great tree. Lots of gold, good happiness, decent science and culture, its got a little bit of everything in there.

I was on top most of the game going into the Compass expansion. Went pretty wide and picked up a lot of territory into the new world continent. Meanwhile, Austria starts getting marriages left and right. Most of the game I was thinking to go diplomatic but later on realized it was going to be science this game, Austria fought too hard on the CS. Korea also started to pick up at this point.

Going into the late game it, it was Industry and Order. Korea starts scienceing as only Korea can, and get neck and neck with me on tech. I however maintain the culture lead through the game, and great leap forward pushes me ahead just enough to pick up Hubble. That vaults me ahead just enough to pick up CERN, and then there was no way for Korea to catch up. He made a valiant effort, and was only a few science parts behind me at the end.

Austria actually went for a great last effort. Did a big diplomatic push 1 turn ahead of a WC vote, and then warred me to lock me out from flipping them back. She managed to pick up World Ideology and started the Hegemony clock. Actually got the votes needed to win, and I had to crush a few CS (including one of my most favorite CS partners the whole game) to ensure she couldn't snipe the win. Great play Austria AI!

Money: Last game I had so many money problems I couldn't even field a full army. This game I had money coming out my ears. Progress (Forbidden Palace) + Statecraft + Industry + Order (Communism) = stupid money. I was buying factories for 270 gold each, and then making money back from progress when they finished. I invested pretty much every building I could, and never stopped the entire game. We often think of gold as weaker than hammers, but once you get this combo going gold is actually stronger than hammers.

Happy: For the most part, happiness was under control this game. I mentioned in an earlier post a point where my happiness tanked when I went to war. That happened another time later in the game. In both cases I was able to course correct, but it just reinforces how incredibly fast happiness can flip on you. I would have 50 happy and still know that I could go negatives if a few key things happened. I've started to treat it like I do military supply. I always want to have a good amount of extra so that when wartime hits and my numbers dip that I am still in a good place.

War Weariness: Weariness was very painful this game. I went into -75% prod/growth penalties towards the end of a few wars, just waiting for the AI to peace with me. I wouldn't use my full military supply, but it would drop quickly on occasion.

Nukes: Ive noted my thoughts in the Nuke thread on general. I decided to really go for nukes this game, not just as a fun romp, but as a serious strategic element. I will say, if you have not really looked at nukes....do so. Its changed my views on some things in the late game. Funny enough, I think nukes are the peace-nicks best friend. I'm a builder at heart, in many games the AI wars on me and I just want them to go away. Nukes are great. I devastate their landscapes from far away, and just let them stew in their pain. You can cripple an enemy near instantaneously for a cost much less than a traditional army.

Handicap: As I mentioned earlier, I did try to tweak the handicap a bit. I had such a great start this game that I think my win was based more on that. I will say that with the changes I made, I felt in control most of the game but not dominant. Late game I got the win with the AI still just nipping at my heals, so the tweaks worked pretty well. Not sure that's enough to really change anything, but I'll probably try another game with the altered values and see what I think. G, I would love your opinion on my number changes in terms of scale. Were the changes "big" or "so small its probably not noticeable".

 

[Infixo]

I decided to try and adjust my handicaps slightly, going for more difficulty mid game and a little less late game. A = 80, B = 150, C = 300.

These are the default values used in Version 1-26 onwards.

 

[ElliotS]

It would be nice if the science/culture penalty only took into consideration founded/annexed cities and just reverted back to the normal values when a city is lost or razed. It strikes me as odd to suffer a penalty for the rest of the game for a city you no longer have.

if i capture a city and raze it, i still pay more for my policies and techs after its gone??

I think it's only until the next tech/policy. @Gazebo any idea?

 

[Gazebo]

I think it's only until the next tech/policy. @Gazebo any idea?

Correct.

G

 

[Gidoza]

I think it's only until the next tech/policy. @Gazebo any idea?

OHHHHH. Well it helps to know that - thanks!