New Beta Version - January 14th (1-14)

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So that has been true for a long time and I've just been dealing with it because getting the real number has been trivial, but can we talk about how EUI gives the wrong information for a lot of buildings in its tooltips? Monasteries, wells, shrines, monuments -- a ton of buildings give inaccurate (and sometimes conflicting) readouts in the tooltips. I can grab some screenshots later today if no one is sure what I'm talking about.

Or if this is just a local error on my part, hi, my name is Gothic Empire and I'm not an alcoholic.
Screenshots are not needed, however if you could make a Github post with all the inaccuracies each time you see some of them, it would be very helpful, since some of them might be more than just typos, they may be balance changes that failed to be implemented as intended (merging errors), so the "good" value is sometime the EUI text and not the "real" value.
 
can we talk about how EUI gives the wrong information for a lot of buildings in its tooltips? Monasteries, wells, shrines, monuments -- a ton of buildings give inaccurate (and sometimes conflicting) readouts in the tooltips. I can grab some screenshots later today if no one is sure what I'm talking about.
Since I’ve been doing some changes in this area recently, I would gladly see screenshots, it would be easier to track and discuss the issue.
For discussion purposes pls post them here https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/poll-comparable-yields.626541/. This not 1-14 related, so let’s not spam here.
But: pls make sure you are using the curent VP version because some changes are already there.
 
Does the world congress proposal which grants culture and production % bonuses to the civs who are behind work as it says? I cannot find where the culture is registered. I do see the production though, I can find a 19% listed in my city view. Checked everywhere I could think, and I can't find the culture bonus listed anywhere (not sure if it means I'm not getting it, or if I'm getting it just not seeing the tip)
They are calculated and added correctly but the tooltip doesn’t show it.
There are 4 cases where the culture tooltip is missing some modifiers info. In 3 cases the EUI provides its own tooltip, but resolution one is still missing.
Those 3, btw, are: sistine chapel, culture modifier for wonders from policy (not used) and puppet penalty when lifted(venice).

Edit. And I would also like to curse Jon from Firaxis, whoever he is, for the stupidest idea ever to separate culture yield handling from other yields. He will burn in developers’ hell.
 
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They are calculated and added correctly but the tooltip doesn’t show it.
There are 4 cases where the culture tooltip is missing some modifiers info. In 3 cases the EUI provides its own tooltip, but resolution one is still missing.
Those 3, btw, are: sistine chapel, culture modifier for wonders from policy (not used) and puppet penalty when lifted(venice).

Edit. And I would also like to curse Jon from Firaxis, whoever he is, for the stupidest idea ever to separate culture yield handling from other yields. He will burn in developers’ hell.

That’d be Jon Shafer. Lead game designer. And yes. Welcome to the Spaghetti.

G
 
I am seeing my archers are giving opposing units an extra move.... Instead of stopping them due to ZOC (which I think they should not have), they are giving them an extra move as if the ZOC tile is costing 0 MP to move through. This should not be; the enemy should still have to pay the normal costs of movement through the tile.
 
I am seeing my archers are giving opposing units an extra move.... Instead of stopping them due to ZOC (which I think they should not have), they are giving them an extra move as if the ZOC tile is costing 0 MP to move through. This should not be; the enemy should still have to pay the normal costs of movement through the tile.
Make a bug report.
 
Also, my caravans and cargo ships are counting against my military unit cap.

Edit: And fishing boats, too.
 
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OK, I found out why. It seems that you are not using Small UI Interface option. I've totally forgot that something like "not small UI" even exists, my bad. Anyway, here's the fix, until the next VP release. Put that file into ...\MODS\(6a) Community Balance Overhaul - Compatibility Files (EUI) or ...\MODS\(6c) 43 Civs CP\EUI.
Thanks, that worked for me.
 
Also, my caravans and cargo ships are counting against my military unit cap.

Edit: And fishing boats, too.
About fishing boats I ask about it in previous version thread - no replies. As I understand it is so intended. :)
 
My armies of fishing boats cannot be stopped.
 
Well, it kinda is. The Culture tootip doesn't work. I've tested the Process for gold and science, but Culture is handled by a different function.

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Edit. This file is only for EUI users. If you downloaded 1-14 Hotfix (see few posts above) you will experience a bug in Culture Tooltip. You need to put the attached file into ...\MODS\(6a) Community Balance Overhaul - Compatibility Files (EUI) or ...\MODS\(6c) 43 Civs CP\EUI. Sorry for inconvenience.

I assume you meant ...\MODS\(6a) Community Balance Overhaul - Compatibility Files (EUI)\LUA, since that's where the original file is located?
 
Caravans counting against supply cap is really brutal for tradition and needs to be fixed. I'm going to have to abandon a game because I just have no supply

I don't think workboats need to use supply. They are really bad scouts with the reduced vision
 
Caravans counting against supply cap is really brutal for tradition and needs to be fixed. I'm going to have to abandon a game because I just have no supply

I don't think workboats need to use supply. They are really bad scouts with the reduced vision

Well it's not intentional, so there's really no need to get argumentative.

Workboats, however, are intended (by Firaxis even) to use military supply. Go ahead, look at their original code! I'll strip that away once we've nipped the workboat scout meta in the bud.

Edit: it's just a simple database change for 'MilitarySupport' to false for those three units. Here, took me all of three seconds:

https://mega.nz/#F!iMNVEISb!gW3aPq-MQ-kibL0lFxrw-w
(Grab 1-14-2)

Now here's the tricky part: You'll need to delete the offending units, save your game, and THEN install the new version. Otherwise the game won't know to reduce your supply!
G
 
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Well it's not intentional, so there's really no need to get argumentative.

Workboats, however, are intended (by Firaxis even) to use military supply. Go ahead, look at their original code! I'll strip that away once we've nipped the workboat scout meta in the bud.

G

I agree workboats should count against supply. If used as intended, they won't hurt.
 
All of the recent TR conversations didn't hold much interest for me — the system worked well enough before for most players, and it works well enough now. But I understand the appeal for the more detail-oriented among us, and for Gazebo, who is after all polishing a diamond.

The spear/pike developments were more constructive, in my opinion, but strike me as part of a series of adjustments that may be never-ending, given the number of moving parts in today’s VP.

For me, those discussions are secondary to addressing what still makes VP clearly less than almost-perfect. That would be anything that leads most of us to say “My game sucked because…”

I think the biggest remaining problems with VP are AI combat and runaways. The first makes the game less challenging than it could be, and the second flat-out ruins games, often after an investment of hours. But can anything be done about them that hasn’t been tried before?

The surest way to improve AI combat would be to reduce all movement to one or two tiles. That’s how I recall most war board games working. The problem would be that it makes game play more boring (I’m not sure).

Short of that, the AI often loses because it doesn’t concentrate hard enough and long enough on its primary target. In my games, they all too often attack halfheartedly here and there, then retreat when I hold them off. The exception is pretty much the AI superpower who believes it can afford to throw unit after unit at me. Given their supply advantages (especially at higher levels), I think the AI should favor concentrated attacks more, and diversion/survival less.

With regard to runaways, I’ve been trying to find a common thread, and came up only with REX. Rapid expansion leads certain civs to start snowballing. and if they have an early unique-something, the game is all over all too often.

Given this, would it make sense to penalize too-rapid expansion the same way that wide civs are already penalized in other costs? I’m not talking about (slow down Progress” so much as a game-warping expansion relative to the other civs in that game. I don’t know if this is possible, but it might improve competitiveness without kneecapping the lucky fast starter.
 
All of the recent TR conversations didn't hold much interest for me — the system worked well enough before for most players, and it works well enough now. But I understand the appeal for the more detail-oriented among us, and for Gazebo, who is after all polishing a diamond.

The spear/pike developments were more constructive, in my opinion, but strike me as part of a series of adjustments that may be never-ending, given the number of moving parts in today’s VP.

For me, those discussions are secondary to addressing what still makes VP clearly less than almost-perfect. That would be anything that leads most of us to say “My game sucked because…”

I think the biggest remaining problems with VP are AI combat and runaways. The first makes the game less challenging than it could be, and the second flat-out ruins games, often after an investment of hours. But can anything be done about them that hasn’t been tried before?

The surest way to improve AI combat would be to reduce all movement to one or two tiles. That’s how I recall most war board games working. The problem would be that it makes game play more boring (I’m not sure).

Short of that, the AI often loses because it doesn’t concentrate hard enough and long enough on its primary target. In my games, they all too often attack halfheartedly here and there, then retreat when I hold them off. The exception is pretty much the AI superpower who believes it can afford to throw unit after unit at me. Given their supply advantages (especially at higher levels), I think the AI should favor concentrated attacks more, and diversion/survival less.

With regard to runaways, I’ve been trying to find a common thread, and came up only with REX. Rapid expansion leads certain civs to start snowballing. and if they have an early unique-something, the game is all over all too often.

Given this, would it make sense to penalize too-rapid expansion the same way that wide civs are already penalized in other costs? I’m not talking about (slow down Progress” so much as a game-warping expansion relative to the other civs in that game. I don’t know if this is possible, but it might improve competitiveness without kneecapping the lucky fast starter.

Doesn't sound like you've played the latest version if you think the AI is still too passive.

There's literally nothing else we can do about the game's tactical AI - we've gone well beyond the point of diminishing returns on many fronts. It's as good as it is going to get within reasonable computational limits. If it still doesn't challenge you, then I'm sorry, you're simply going to have to challenge yourself through artificial methods, as we're not doing any more overhauls.

G
 
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