New Beta Version - June 14th (6/14)

[scrunchy]

Yeah, I guess it's hard to balance more to reality... Still, I think just making them 1 range would be better and having cannons, artillery and later ships have range 2...Range 3 is just too far. Only issue is trying to balance early ranged units if they can only fire 1 square.

 

[Moi Magnus]

I've been meaning to ask... when did the ranged units range get changed? A lot of the changes don't make any sense - for example, why does a musketman have a fire range of 2 but a frigate is range 1? Is this because no way to balance them properly if they have a range 1?

High speed + high range = OP.
That's why skirmishers and fregate have range 1.
(You could argue in favor of a ship with 2 range and 2 mouvement, but that would be more appropriate for a modmod)

Technically, we could have reduce the fregate strength until it was no longer OP with 2 range, but it would have resulted in a unit useless unless you completely exploit the 2 range, which is very unfair to the AI (which is bad at exploiting bad design).

 

[Abnormalmind]

Love the mod. Great work!

My feedback on this Beta build: I noticed that the AI was range attacking 0 health cities and not attacking with a melee unit for several turns.

Also, how can I remove the Bonus vs. Barbarians? I want to toughen them up. Thanks!

 

[Stalker0]

High speed + high range = OP.
That's why skirmishers and fregate have range 1.
(You could argue in favor of a ship with 2 range and 2 mouvement, but that would be more appropriate for a modmod)

Technically, we could have reduce the fregate strength until it was no longer OP with 2 range, but it would have resulted in a unit useless unless you completely exploit the 2 range, which is very unfair to the AI (which is bad at exploiting bad design).

Hehe oh please no lets not start this cycle up again. We have come to a great place with the units (obviously just doing the final tuning on ranged units). Nothing in civ is completely realistic, and this was baked in to the game at the very beginning.

 

[vyyt]

Love the mod. Great work!

My feedback on this Beta build: I noticed that the AI was range attacking 0 health cities and not attacking with a melee unit for several turns.

Also, how can I remove the Bonus vs. Barbarians? I want to toughen them up. Thanks!

You can find the bonus for each difficulty (not the promotion warriors get) in the difficulties.xml file somewhere in the (2) CBO/Balance Changes. (on my cell, cannot check the exact path now)

 

[wistak]

Something with hapinnes is still not working i think

We play on multi with friends
We use correct 0.1 not 1 TechBalance....something
In one turn my friend go from low but positive to -60 something

He has 9 city few of them puppets
He play Tradition
He has biggest population (40 in Delhi and 30 something in second rest of them also large)
2 players (I and him) entered Modern (by free tech from event) we both are now First in tech he was 3 or 4 (8 civs remaining in game) so he probably go from median to first
And Baby Boom happen

so there are reasons for unhapiness but -60?

I`ll try to get autosaves later

 

[Moi Magnus]

Something with hapinnes is still not working i think

We play on multi with friends
We use correct 0.1 not 1 TechBalance....something
In one turn my friend go from low but positive to -60 something

He has 9 city few of them puppets
He play Tradition
He has biggest population (40 in Delhi and 30 something in second rest of them also large)
2 players (I and him) entered Modern (by free tech from event) we both are now First in tech he was 3 or 4 (8 civs remaining in game) so he probably go from median to first
And Baby Boom happen

so there are reasons for unhapiness but -60?

I`ll try to get autosaves later

The best would be to make a post on Github with the happiness logs. But screenshot would already be good.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I don't understand the Statecraft nerf, it has simply made the tree way less appealing for wide. There's not enough trade routes for it to be comparable to others with only 1 for each, even with Colossus and Petra on my Portugal I think with me at 12+ cities not going Fealty will be a bad idea. Can it at least get some carrot to encourage wide guys to go there again? Maybe +some yield per Chancery or other building? Fealty is and was by far the true choice for wide and it's been only made more recommended by nerfs of it's opponents. While happiness is easier, I've had many turns this game where I dropped around -10 because you really shouldn't overexpand while teching so fast because of many trade routes.

Wide Artistry wasn't changed as much because at least it's generous yield-wise for wide, I still will probably only go there as France, I just get 1 Happiness every 2 conquests, not 2 every 3 but you get way more Culture/Production overall so it's probably a buff, but Statecraft needs something more now I'd say.

 

[Gazebo]

I don't understand the Statecraft nerf, it has simply made the tree way less appealing for wide. There's not enough trade routes for it to be comparable to others with only 1 for each, even with Colossus and Petra on my Portugal I think with me at 12+ cities not going Fealty will be a bad idea. Can it at least get some carrot to encourage wide guys to go there again? Maybe +some yield per Chancery or other building? Fealty is and was by far the true choice for wide and it's been only made more recommended by nerfs of it's opponents. While happiness is easier, I've had many turns this game where I dropped around -10 because you really shouldn't overexpand while teching so fast because of many trade routes.

Wide Artistry wasn't changed as much because at least it's generous yield-wise for wide, I still will probably only go there as France, I just get 1 Happiness every 2 conquests, not 2 every 3 but you get way more Culture/Production overall so it's probably a buff, but Statecraft needs something more now I'd say.

Statecraft was way over performing.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Statecraft was way over performing.

I suppose it does have 10 trillion gold per second so maybe it really did, and with the happiness being more generous now I don't think I'll have a problem either way so I went there.

 

[inzlinger]

I'm not very happy with the new happiness mechanic. (I play with 0.1 factor) In midgame (renaissance, industrial) I don't have any problemsa with hapiness at all. It seems quite easy now. But later on it dropped. I ply Celts, tradition, statecraft, rationalism (on prince) and my very big capital dropped down from 1 or 2 to -8 or so, with -17 crime alone. I have build literally everything and spammed a lot of wonders. I'm on the way to win diplomatically, but I can't do anything to help with crime. Couldn't believe that this is intended.

 

[kawyua]

The statecraft's exchange markets description still says +2 happy per trade route has it really been changed?

 

[yogiebere]

with -17 crime alone

Crime it seems like got a little overtuned in the last few patches. Even when I prioritize a wonder like Terracotta, have a good garrison, and even get a crime religious building, my crime is always the worst need in all my cities.

 

[wistak]

where are happines logs? i have logs folder and there is plenty of log files but don't have idea which one contain happiness

 

[ridjack]

Crime it seems like got a little overtuned in the last few patches. Even when I prioritize a wonder like Terracotta, have a good garrison, and even get a crime religious building, my crime is always the worst need in all my cities.

I second this. Babylon, eight cities, 17 pop in the capital, tech leader by 2 or 3 techs, just about to enter the Industrial with every possible crime building (including Constabulary), Great Wall, Himeji Castle, contemporary unit garrisoning... 4 crime.

That said, happiness as a whole is vastly better than previously, so this is so more of a minor annoyance than a real problem.

 

[Gazebo]

I second this. Babylon, eight cities, 17 pop in the capital, tech leader by 2 or 3 techs, just about to enter the Industrial with every possible crime building (including Constabulary), Great Wall, Himeji Castle, contemporary unit garrisoning... 4 crime.

That said, happiness as a whole is vastly better than previously, so this is so more of a minor annoyance than a real problem.

It's always been the case that some amount of unhappiness from crime/poverty is unavoidable. This is by design.

G

 

[ridjack]

It's always been the case that some amount of unhappiness from crime/poverty is unavoidable. This is by design.

G

Mais oui; prior to this, I've always had one or two that I knew was just going to be there. Three has always been my personal upper limit; four from any single need is "EMERGENCY LOCKDOWN" mode while I scramble to find something to head it off before it gets worse.

I'm realizing as I type this out, though, that the crime may previously have been hidden behind all the other unhappiness we were experiencing prior to this patch, since a citizen can only ever be frowny-face unhappy about one thing at a time. Given that, as noted above, it's so far been more of an irritant than an actual problem with the 6/14 happiness system, this is a level of balance I would be perfectly happy with.

 

[Vortok]

I don't understand the Statecraft nerf, it has simply made the tree way less appealing for wide.
Can it at least get some carrot to encourage wide guys to go there again?

I'm guessing you're talking about picking it while aiming for a domination or science victory? Because if aiming for a Diplo victory (at which point Statescraft is a no duh selection), wide generally has a better capacity to churn out diplo units than tall. Then it's more of a "why go tall if going for Diplo?" rather than "why wide with Statescraft?"

Personally, I've never understood the allure of Fealty. Seems like you need to know how to specifically make use of religion for it to be worth it (which isn't a knowledge/skill/fluency level that I'm at). Otherwise I just find myself lagging on culture/policies + low gold income.

 

[black213]

Personally, I've never understood the allure of Fealty. Seems like you need to know how to specifically make use of religion for it to be worth it (which isn't a knowledge/skill/fluency level that I'm at). Otherwise I just find myself lagging on culture/policies + low gold income.

Just use your religion to cover your Achilles' heel(s); Inspiration & Cathedrals is my fav follower combo for Fealty.

 

[andersw]

It's always been the case that some amount of unhappiness from crime/poverty is unavoidable. This is by design.

G

I've seen posts about the "change 0.1 -> 1.0", was the 0.1 a mistake or is the 1.0 value an option for more laidback games?
I've been reverting some to older less unhappiness versions but consider 6.14 again.