New Beta Version - June 9th (6/9)

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you know the drill.
Now you're off making ridiculous assumptions again...


Also yeah 'Indian' sounds extremely stupid when talking about people who are clearly not from India, but calling people Native Americans sounds just about equally stupid. They really need a better collective name.
 
The idea is that they're not supposed to clear barbarians, that's what warriors are for.

I'd be just happy if they could survive a lil easier, but I'm a fan of warrior first with this mod anyway. Not many ruins to get on immo/deity anyway and scout is a gamble I don't like. I was just hoping to use that line a lil more.

Thinking about that, ~95% of time one of the first two ruins my warrior finds (usually out of 3-4 total in the whole early game) is a cultural one, aka just what I needed. Is there any hidden check making it more common with this mod?


Edit: first patch game as progressist Rome. No iron except some Nabuch wants to sell me for 500+/piece, while he's one era ahead in a nearby continent/peninsula. Alex and Harald at the doors. Fun!

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Let see if a comeback is possible :)

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Moar edits: Legions are some siege monsters.
 
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Does this mean for every non-puppet city (?!) you need 2% more culture and 3% more science or 0,66% more for both?
It was changed some month ago, there are no more "no-puppet" things. Now, every city contribute to the increase of the cost of civics & techs.
(edit: my bad, it's the other way around: puppet don't contribute anymore, thx G)

It say, each city now increase the cost 50% more (if 2 before, now 3). The "cost increase per city" change for each map size (i don't know why).
 
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It was changed some month ago, there are no more "no-puppet" things. Now, every city contribute to the increase of the cost of civics & techs.

It say, each city now increase the cost 50% more (if 2 before, now 3). The "cost increase per city" change for each map size (i don't know why).

No, other way around. Puppets don't contribute.

G
 
That's just EUI telling you what is on the tile.

Yea that was a bad joke. The promotions shown in a vertical order was the oddity.


Barrage also (still) hits stuff outside of max range, WAD or worth a report?

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No, other way around. Puppets don't contribute.

G
As an uninformed player I'd like to ask what are the point of puppet cities? Is it just to give more land and city connection income? (land being for a defensive buffer)
 
I love the new patch. Can't wait to try it.

I'm amazed to see VP still being improved and how you G take care of the users feedback
Great Great Great

My concern is about the design of the pathfinder. Whatever the leader we pick, we get an indian guy at T0. I hope a more neutral design coming in a further release

Many units are improperly skinned. I seem to remember Ethiopia having a white great prophet.

The idea is that they're not supposed to clear barbarians, that's what warriors are for.

A 5 CS unit with no combat bonuses isn't clearing barbarians anyway. They don't need a debuff.

That said I think it's a typo, because it's not causing me to have problems as of last patch. (Need to fire this one up.)

As an uninformed player I'd like to ask what are the point of puppet cities? Is it just to give more land and city connection income? (land being for a defensive buffer)

1- Puppets don't increase Science and Culture costs. If you're going for a Science victory you want to puppet almost all of your conquests, because you normally rely on flat science bonuses that don't scale with number of cities. (And therefore are diluted by science cost increases.)
2- If the city isn't in a great spot then normally puppeting is better than razing. A fraction of a little is better than all of nothing.
3- Puppets give good gold income, as it's not reduced. They also give paper and have population you can convert to your religion for all those founder beliefs.
 
Culture seems really super-slow. I've started next to Wu and Harun. While Wu finished her tree early, she is drowning in -50/-70 Gold per turn. She's been at it for about 100 turns now. I have pics if needed. The year is around 1300AD, Wu has 12 techs and is doing awfully because of the Science malus, Harun has 5 policies, just got wrecked by me and even he had temporal -20GPT despite his super-Gold UB, and Ahmad on another landmass has -20 GPT and also 5 policies. Maybe maintenance scaling doesn't take game length into account or something? That could be why GPTs get so uncontrollable so fast with you not experiencing it, I bet the test games are performed on normal speed. Anyway, it's terrible if Ahmad/Harun, who get Culture in the UA, can get only 5 policies this late in the game.

I'd have barely finished Authority as a God-King (so decent +Culture, best out of all pantheons) + Synagogue + Cathedral Spain in medieval were it not for Oracle which meant getting there in year 1100-1200 (forgot) ensured I came with finished Authority and a Piety opener. With Amber monopoly, too (so decent +Culture +Science), and despite getting G-K which provides pretty much the best culture out of all pantheons. Because of the fact everything depends on culture (happiness policies, produiction policies, gold policies, etc), everything became more sluggish as a result. My Science progress with +2S per mine and God-King yields became slower than what I usually get without any Science monopolies, that's terrible. Everything is slower because the culture is worse, and culture affected everything. I might have delayed Libraries a bit as I wanted Forges and Swordsmen first, but I've fought and killed way more than I typically do as Authority which should've evened that out. I even got three early wonders (Statue, Artemis, Petra) and have Oracle, am soon-to-get Alhambra and maybe even Parthenon. I wonder how many policies will I get if I nick them both. So far my take on the culture is negative, and the gold problems are not fixed. In fact, the latter seems worse - might be the AI not having access to the good policies fast made them experience more problems. I will try playing more, maybe those three just did something badly and I will find someone tough on the other continent.
Culture cost increase is definitely way more than the 15%, even at the start on epic instead of costing 35, the first policy was 45 (so around 20% more), and if you add the added penalty for every city, that's an easy +40% culture cost increase if you want to go warmongering - which I'm doing right now. No way to conquer 4/8 players on Standard map without getting 20-30 cities (sometimes 40).
 
Culture seems really super-slow.

The year is around 1300AD, Wu has 12 techs

Is that Epic or Marathon? I'm tempted to say it's not too bad but It's hard to compare with normal speed and obviously need more games. I completed Liberty on turn 149, as Rome with 2x Coral in the capital starting with the left side (it's weird, but if not with this UA/terrain combo, then when?) and 5 cities. 2 policies behind the runaway deity for a long time by now.
 
Culture seems really super-slow. I've started next to Wu and Harun. While Wu finished her tree early, she is drowning in -50/-70 Gold per turn. She's been at it for about 100 turns now. I have pics if needed. The year is around 1300AD, Wu has 12 techs and is doing awfully because of the Science malus, Harun has 5 policies, just got wrecked by me and even he had temporal -20GPT despite his super-Gold UB, and Ahmad on another landmass has -20 GPT and also 5 policies. Maybe maintenance scaling doesn't take game length into account or something? That could be why GPTs get so uncontrollable so fast with you not experiencing it, I bet the test games are performed on normal speed. Anyway, it's terrible if Ahmad/Harun, who get Culture in the UA, can get only 5 policies this late in the game.

I'd have barely finished Authority as a God-King (so decent +Culture, best out of all pantheons) + Synagogue + Cathedral Spain in medieval were it not for Oracle which meant getting there in year 1100-1200 (forgot) ensured I came with finished Authority and a Piety opener. With Amber monopoly, too (so decent +Culture +Science), and despite getting G-K which provides pretty much the best culture out of all pantheons. Because of the fact everything depends on culture (happiness policies, produiction policies, gold policies, etc), everything became more sluggish as a result. My Science progress with +2S per mine and God-King yields became slower than what I usually get without any Science monopolies, that's terrible. Everything is slower because the culture is worse, and culture affected everything. I might have delayed Libraries a bit as I wanted Forges and Swordsmen first, but I've fought and killed way more than I typically do as Authority which should've evened that out. I even got three early wonders (Statue, Artemis, Petra) and have Oracle, am soon-to-get Alhambra and maybe even Parthenon. I wonder how many policies will I get if I nick them both. So far my take on the culture is negative, and the gold problems are not fixed. In fact, the latter seems worse - might be the AI not having access to the good policies fast made them experience more problems. I will try playing more, maybe those three just did something badly and I will find someone tough on the other continent.
Culture cost increase is definitely way more than the 15%, even at the start on epic instead of costing 35, the first policy was 45 (so around 20% more), and if you add the added penalty for every city, that's an easy +40% culture cost increase if you want to go warmongering - which I'm doing right now. No way to conquer 4/8 players on Standard map without getting 20-30 cities (sometimes 40).

Every game is different - I've seen the AI tank early, I've seen it blossom. I test on different speeds, though majority on normal. Policy speed is about 10 turns slower than before (in-between policies). 30->40 turns (25%, which fits in my range of 15-30 I mentioned earlier). Definitely keeping an eye on it though.

G
 
Is that Epic or Marathon? I'm tempted to say it's not too bad but It's hard to compare with normal speed and obviously need more games. I completed Liberty on turn 149, as Rome with 2x Coral in the capital starting with the left side (it's weird, but if not with this UA/terrain combo, then when?) and 5 cities. 2 policies behind the runaway deity for a long time by now.

Epic. It is very bad, the years are of mid-late medieval historically and she's barely in classical. She gets 0 Science because of all the debt she's in due to -50/-70 GPT for hundreds of years. I think she doesn't have Writing yet, she went Authority just like me and Harun because we all knew there was too little space on this landmass for a peaceful existence.

Every game is different - I've seen the AI tank early, I've seen it blossom. I test on different speeds, though majority on normal. Policy speed is about 10 turns slower than before (in-between policies). 30->40 turns (25%, which fits in my range of 15-30 I mentioned earlier). Definitely keeping an eye on it though.

G

Well yeah, it is one game which I am enjoying, it feels alien to be able to put Parthenon in my build order on Spain, not really enough for me to say definitely something's wrong, but at least the GPT problems have been there for a long time now. How does maintenance scale? Does the amount of turns since the game beginning count, or only techs and amount of units you have?
 
Epic. It is very bad, the years are of mid-late medieval historically and she's barely in classical. She gets 0 Science because of all the debt she's in due to -50/-70 GPT for hundreds of years. I think she doesn't have Writing yet, she went Authority just like me and Harun because we all knew there was too little space on this landmass for a peaceful existence.



Well yeah, it is one game which I am enjoying, it feels alien to be able to put Parthenon in my build order on Spain, not really enough for me to say definitely something's wrong, but at least the GPT problems have been there for a long time now. How does maintenance scale? Does the amount of turns since the game beginning count, or only techs and amount of units you have?

This is what you are looking for;

Code:
// Game progress factor ranges from 0.0 to 1.0 based on how far into the game we are
    double fGameProgressFactor = double(GC.getGame().getElapsedGameTurns()) / GC.getGame().getDefaultEstimateEndTurn();

    // Multiplicative increase - helps scale costs as game goes on - the HIGHER this number the more is paid
    double fMultiplyFactor = 1.0 + (fGameProgressFactor* /*8*/ GC.getUNIT_MAINTENANCE_GAME_MULTIPLIER());
    // Exponential increase - this one really punishes those with a HUGE military - the LOWER this number the more is paid
    double fExponentialFactor = 1.0 + (fGameProgressFactor / /*7*/ GC.getUNIT_MAINTENANCE_GAME_EXPONENT_DIVISOR());
 
I never witnessed such negative GPT horror stories for the AI at normal speed tho, guess it's a combination of late trade-currency/tons of units and roads the AI makes before it can afford to.

I am also witnessing right now the AI making a 12 tiles long road to connect the capital to a 6 pop coastal city when a lighthouse would work.
 
Also yeah 'Indian' sounds extremely stupid when talking about people who are clearly not from India, but calling people Native Americans sounds just about equally stupid. They really need a better collective name.

Be sure to let them know directly, Funak. Gazebo has nothing to so with how a people identify themselves.
 
Not sure when Native Americans sounds stupid. It's more descriptive than 'Black' 'White' 'Asian' or god-forbid 'African American' (Given how many aren't from Africa and get annoyed by that. I've never met someone offended by describing them as black on the other hand, and I live right outside of Chicago so many of my friends and a large portion of the people I interact with are black.)
 
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