New Beta Version - November 9th (11-9)

[JohanBest]

My 2 cents is that the 5% base flanking bonus is just too small and meaningless. Say you get someone in a standard 2v1 situation, that 5% does nothing really. You would need your current patch units to be shock iii to be the equivalent of a non-promoted prev patch unit. If you do manage to get the unit surrounded by a couple of other units I'm pretty sure that unit was fkd anyways

But it does help the AI who are more clueless about flanking, so not so bad I guess.

 

[JohanBest]

You guys are also confusing this issue way too much.

This was firstly a fix to having units in support (units adjacent but not in the front line) affecting flanking. Some here seem to think that's what it was changed to (but it's the other way around).

Secondly, it's basically just a nerf to flanking. In raw numbers and in how only either the attacker or defender gets the deltas resulting bonus (which is a nerf to higher combat strength units).

If you don't like the nerf it is very easy to change the PromotionChanges.xml to whatever values you want. Though not sure that can be done for MP?

 

[YukiN]

The code to check for mounted ranged units in combat has been removed this patch. So since the ranged mounted units are considered to be "UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER" type then any unit with bonus vs mounted won't get it against these units.

Not sure why this was removed. As of last patch it didn't work correctly (IMO) as spearmen etc shouldn't get a bonus in defense vs the ranged of horse units. I had a fix to this merged into the solution so that the bonus was given only to spearmen when attacking a ranged mounted unit. Dunno if my fix was intentionally left out of the final patch or not.

Oh well, looks like there are more pressing "issues" atm

Right now, a spearman attacking a chariot is showing the 50% modifier in the lower left box but it's not actually modifying the CS (I made the attacked to check). I'm fine with spearmen and ranged archery units not interacting in any special way, but there is clearly a bug.

 

[JohanBest]

Right now, a spearman attacking a chariot is showing the 50% modifier in the lower left box but it's not actually modifying the CS (I made the attacked to check). I'm fine with spearmen and ranged archery units not interacting in any special way, but there is clearly a bug.

Ye just the ui not getting updated to the change. Feel free to report on github

 

[tu_79]

If you don't like the nerf it is very easy to change the PromotionChanges.xml to whatever values you want.

Oh, we like it. It's just Shock promotions that look rather underwhelming.

 

[Moi Magnus]

let me try an example. Let’s use the example of 1,2,or 3 units flanking.

1 unit: +15% cs (from the 15% flanking bonus).

2 unit: +17.25% cs (15% from the first one. The second is 15% of that 15%, or 2.25%. So overall it’s 17.25% cs)

3 unit: +19.8% (17.25 from the first 2, 15% of thst is 2.58. So added it’s 19.8)

Is that right?

No. Let me explain the old system.

We will assume here that the base flanking bonus is 10% by unit (which is wrong, but I'm to lazy to look at the real numbers)

1 flanking unit -> +10% CS
2 flanking units -> +20% CS
3 flanking units -> +30% CS

No, let's assume you have a promotion giving +15% flanking bonus. The base flanking bonus is now 11.5%, so

1 flanking unit -> +11.5% CS
2 flanking units -> +23% CS
3 flanking units -> +34.5% CS

Which, as you may see, is negligiably better than without the promotion.

 

[JohanBest]

Actual numbers were base 15% and 25% bonus which meant

1 flanking 15 - 18,
2 . 30 - 37
3 . 45-56

So in absolute values the promotion bonus was more before. From 3-4 per flank to flat 3%. The fact that 5 to 8 % change is bigger relatively speaking is academic. Basically it's just a flanking Nerf.

Except for the fact last patch the bonus flanking promo wasn't actually been applied (bugged implementation ) - another reason for the update I didn't mention

 

[Stalker0]

No. Let me explain the old system.

We will assume here that the base flanking bonus is 10% by unit (which is wrong, but I'm to lazy to look at the real numbers)

1 flanking unit -> +10% CS
2 flanking units -> +20% CS
3 flanking units -> +30% CS

No, let's assume you have a promotion giving +15% flanking bonus. The base flanking bonus is now 11.5%, so

1 flanking unit -> +11.5% CS
2 flanking units -> +23% CS
3 flanking units -> +34.5% CS

Which, as you may see, is negligiably better than without the promotion.

Thank you MM. Good to know that base flanking did work “normally”

 

[Gazebo]

No. Let me explain the old system.

We will assume here that the base flanking bonus is 10% by unit (which is wrong, but I'm to lazy to look at the real numbers)

1 flanking unit -> +10% CS
2 flanking units -> +20% CS
3 flanking units -> +30% CS

No, let's assume you have a promotion giving +15% flanking bonus. The base flanking bonus is now 11.5%, so

1 flanking unit -> +11.5% CS
2 flanking units -> +23% CS
3 flanking units -> +34.5% CS

Which, as you may see, is negligiably better than without the promotion.

The bonus now is actually a flat value added to the base value. For shock it is 2 iirc. So 2x delta.

 

[4CV]

After changing the "50" to "-50" in the city attack formula, as proposed, I got the result below. City strength seems a little weak to me, but I never cared about those values before, so I can't compare. Only thought, there might be a fault, because the city is very little damaged but shows deep red...

 

[Enginseer]

After changing the "50" to "-50" in the city attack formula, as proposed, I got the result below. City strength seems a little weak to me, but I never cared about those values before, so I can't compare. Only thought, there might be a fault, because the city is very little damaged but shows deep red...

View attachment 509005

You change it to 1 or -1(for the ranged attack to match the city's strength).

 

[ColonelCarter]

The bonus now is actually a flat value added to the base value. For shock it is 2 iirc. So 2x delta.

Technically, it was still a flat value before, just hidden. It was a % of base flanking, which was always 15 per unit, so a 25% flank increase was technically just a 3.75x # of flanks. Overrun was 15%x # of flanks.
It's actually a slight nerf to flanking bonus in some situations, because unboosted flanks can neutralize boosted flanks. Old system you would get all your flanks boosted and if the opposing party had some flanks without any bonuses, they would effectively negate the base flank strength bonus but not your extra flank strength.

 

[Stalker0]

I made a new thread in the General Balance forum to discuss the flanking values, now that we understand the new system.

 

[Yujine]

The game is shutting down with this patch!!!

 

[TwoPodRay]

The game is shutting down with this patch!!!

Do you have specifics for the problem that you are seeing?

 

[4CV]

You change it to 1 or -1(for the ranged attack to match the city's strength).

Thank you, it worked. City's strength now is doubled to 5 and damage done 24 instead of 11.

 

[wistak]

City connection here isn't a bug?

Those rivers are not connected

 

[Enginseer]

City connection here isn't a bug?

Those rivers are not connected

Not a bug, the rivers have to reach each other *not by sea*.

 

[pineappledan]

Spoiler :

No bug. Songhai connect via any tile that has "river" as a feature; they don't have to literally be a single river.

 

[Stalker0]

You change it to 1 or -1(for the ranged attack to match the city's strength).

So are you saying we should change the 50 value to a -1. Is that the "correct value" instead of -50?