New Beta Version - October 8th (10-8)

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I'll add my 2 cents on discussion. Byzantinum (progress/fealty/rationalism), Emperor/Epic pace/Standard Communitas. On turn 456 and recently discovered I have no coal. So I'm in pretty bad spot (nr. 7 civ (score 1091), Korea and China (both over 2000 score) top dogs going for science victory the first and culture the second). I got my Island alone since start but 1 CS that conquered in a fast war. It's more a curse than a bonus. Human player shines managing units in war.

China even with tradition/artistry murdered my fleet easily (they get 4 or 5 promotion right of the bat and they build a lot of ranged as other noticed). Their frigates smashed one of my coastal cities easily. Nothing I could do. With defender of faith i managed to get it back fighting from my territory.

I had a lot of trouble managing happiness (distress and boredom mainly). Korea went statecraft as India. CS are out of reach for me. (1278+ influence to try flip the easiest =/). India and China sharing same continent but it seems rather pacific down there. On the third continent there is a beautyful AI game Shosone vs Iroqois vs Assiria vs Korea vs a pretty destroyed Huns.

I'll try to focus science with my 8 cities and try to race, now that Rationalism fianlly stabilized happiness and can allow my cities grow. Korea went Authority, Statecraft but there are a full war raging down there. China is a real problem.

I think the worker should be removed on all difficulty. Leaving out Emperor alone is a strange decision.
 
Not sure - I haven't noticed a memory-use spike in latest version(s), but if it becomes a performance concern let @ilteroi know.



It is new code, and air power is something we have to be careful with because - frankly - the human is a lot better at managing the abstraction. TBH I'd rather see Terracotta change than Pentagon, the instant effect is more useful late-game (and easier to time correctly) than it is on Terracotta. Terracotta is a weird wonder, it isn't even in the right location time-wise. I'd like to move and change it.

G

I'm not against changes entirely, but Terracotta has always been a valuable resource for me in my games. I don't always build it of course, but knowing it is there is important. I can often get away with having a small army in the early game when most civs are still focusing on expansion rather than war. Terracotta is available around when I tend to expect my first border skirmish (or attempted invasion). If I have been focusing on wonders or religion early-game, Terracotta allows be to build a ton of troops all at once.

Later on in the game it always has a smaller impact because my army is much bigger than the number of different types of units in it. Whereas early game I may only have one or two of each. That means it can potentially double my armed forces.
 
First of all, thanks for all the detailed feedback. Feedback based on ingame playtesting like this is always highly appreciated. :)

I'll try my best to answer your queries.

What exactly does blockading a city do?
A blockaded city cannot heal, does not receive the bonuses from City Connections and takes 20% increased damage from all sources.

Some melee units, like the destroyer, have RCS promotions. Is this a bug?
Yes - but it's only a text issue. Two of them were fixed to say CS as intended in this latest beta.

Does the "Give me 10 rounds to prepare" properly work? In one game (normal gamespeed) the AI came back 15 rounds later and in another example (still same game) the AI never came back. Did it decide against going, even though we both agreed on going together, I don't understand.
You must be friends with the AI to start a coop war with them. If you end your DoF in the Discuss menu, denounce them or declare war on them (or they do any of these things to you), they will cancel their coop war plans. Also, they won't bother coming back if you're already at war. I'll look into the issue with the time counter.

About charts. Late medieval (normal, prince, huge) I was maxed out at 55 military units with 200 population (16 cities) and all military buildings while my eternally angry neighbor Mr.Zulu apparently had 25% more military might than me with just 100 pop (8 cities). I notice this every game now that other civs easily outperform in the charts and I know for a fact there is no way a small civ could have a similar army. But when using info addict the chat seem to be fixed, showing my empire has by far the largest military power. Is the ranking chart intentionally skewed?
Your military might is reduced when you have more cities; the logic is that you need to spread them out more to defend your empire, lest you go the way of the Roman Empire. Military score was tweaked recently for being too punishing. You can see the raw military power in Demographics (# of soldiers).

Have city states their own techs or from allies? Some are really weak and some very strong in terms of city defense.
I believe they do their own research, but I could be wrong about that. I know that the Barbarians gain a tech once 80% of civs have researched it rather than doing any research themselves; it's possible they use that kind of system. City-States do get yield bonuses and cost reductions to compensate for only having one city to work with, though.

The AI was changed in the latest beta to prioritize Defense buildings more, so you should see more of them building Walls etc.

Also, a City-State that a major civ has Pledged to Protect gains a 5% CS bonus per PTP, up to 25%. Siam's unique ability gives an additional +25% CS to City-States they're allied to.



I don't have a comment on every individual point for your feedback, but I can say a few things:

Air units should not be affected by roads and railroads.
If roads/railroads have any effect on air units, that sounds like a bug that should be reported on Github.

Upgrading from Explorer to Zeppelin is way too expensive.

I agree with this based on my own experience. The Explorer -> Zeppelin upgrade cost is huge.

Asking an AI for public friendship and getting declined should not disable me from asking again. This leads to me never asking any AI out because even if they are very friendly, they may decline and either of us can't ask again for many many rounds so I don't even bother to ask them anymore, I just let them ask.
This has irked me for a long time as well; I'll see what I can do to fix it.

City states need more units. They can easily be conquered by 1 AI city.

They start with 0-3 melee units based on difficulty level, and they get certain Production bonuses, but they have a unit cap and they're not meant to be formidable opponents. That's why they rely on major civs to protect them from big bad Genghis Khan. :)

Great Wall should be ineffective against players that have Dynamite.
This is a vanilla thing that doesn't make sense to me, either. The adversaries are the ones breaching the wall, so whether they've researched Dynamite should be what's considered.

Vassalage makes little sense after a change a few months back. Now the AI still doesn't want to peace out for surrender even after losing their capital + a few cities. E.g. Suleiman had 7 cities. I took his capital and his 2 best cities and only after taking another one he surrendered. This needs fixing. This feeds into that the problem the AI also forgets it lost a few cities in the previous war so making a short peace treaty resets that requirement. I think losing the capital and maybe 1 city would make everything okay again and still better than just the capital which can be cheesed.
I think they require a total war score of 90 to consider capitulation and 100 makes it guaranteed, but I may be wrong about that.

The pioneer and colonist are way too expensive compared to a settler. What is it, like 5 or 6 times the cost of settler?
The cost was reduced in this latest beta.

Renaming the "Refuse" button to "Decline" would fit much more in most cases.
Well, they're functionally identical, but I agree with you, haha.
Glad it's worth something. What is it you do for the Vox Populi project?
 
Glad it's worth something. What is it you do for the Vox Populi project?

Oh, nothing too amazing - I mostly just tinker around trying to improve the diplomacy AI, which is a fascination of mine. I do some text fixes too. :)
 
@Stalker0,
Tradition lack of military supply forces players into war, so they can increase supply via great generals.
They also have an advantage for taking desired wonders, so it should not be difficult to grab one military wonder or two.

Tu, its a good point, and normally I do lay down citadels as a Tradition player to great the proper terrain. I'm just struggling against the new AI super navies and being able to foster enough land troops to hold my fortress borders (I can handle either one, its both that I'm struggling with). I'll play around it some more, it may be a "git gud" moment for me in Immortal.
 
Emperor/Epic pace/Standard Communitas

Pardon my off-topic.
How do you find Communitas in its current iteration? I quit using Communitas a while ago in favor of Planet Simulator because my tests showed the former was unbalanced resource-wise.
 
Tu, its a good point, and normally I do lay down citadels as a Tradition player to great the proper terrain. I'm just struggling against the new AI super navies and being able to foster enough land troops to hold my fortress borders (I can handle either one, its both that I'm struggling with). I'll play around it some more, it may be a "git gud" moment for me in Immortal.
Good luck. I'm still struggling at Emperor.
 
Good luck. I'm still struggling at Emperor.

I have been there! :) In general, I have found that going up difficulty levels is less about playing different, and more about discipline. For example, I used to casually look for resources to get WLTKD in my cities. Now I'm very conscious of it, and I'm looking pretty much every turn at the CS quests and my city WTLKD needs to find key resources to grab. Probably the biggest "learning moment" I had in Emperor was the power of defensive play. I used to settle cities only thinking about yields. Now, defense is the number 1 priority, and it makes a tremendous difference (literally night and day in some cases).

Now I'm still not at CrazyG's level, who talks about knowing what each Civ has teched to based on the cost increase of techs! I'm just not ready for that level of play yet:)
 
Stalker, my experience on Deity is that unless I'm planning on playing a wide/warmongering game, I tend to settle away from the coast, because coastal cities demand just too many naval units to properly defend, and then I usually don't have enough military cap left for an effective land army. There are exceptions, of course (if there's great defensive terrain for a coastal city, if my starting luxury is a sea one,...), but generally I'm still able to compete well enough without coastal cities (or just one).
 
Stalker, my experience on Deity is that unless I'm planning on playing a wide/warmongering game, I tend to settle away from the coast, because coastal cities demand just too many naval units to properly defend, and then I usually don't have enough military cap left for an effective land army. There are exceptions, of course (if there's great defensive terrain for a coastal city, if my starting luxury is a sea one,...), but generally I'm still able to compete well enough without coastal cities (or just one).

Are you able to accomplish DVs that way, or do you only go DV as wide? I often go CV/SV as tall, and do what you describe...but in going DV in my last game as Austria, I felt that without costal cities/navies, I would have no ability to protect all of the CS from getting chomped by enemy navy. Or is DV a wide man's game at higher difficulties?
 
I found the map very balanced overall. Last version 1.13 hotfix (you have to manually install after Vox populi main installer though https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/communitu_79.648648/page-6). Sadly due to spawning I have no coal in this playthrough. The other two continents seems very good resource wise. Give it a try !
This is not standard Communitas, it's a fork made by azum4roll and me of Communitas map script. We may still tweak some values based on feedback, so please, test it.
 
What if the Tradition finisher added a minor supply bump? Small, yet tangible, so maybe something along the lines of +2 supply, scaling with era; about equivalent to each Tradition civ getting a Brandenburg's worth of extra units during end-game to apply where needed, but it couldn't be abused by just grabbing the opener for a +2 pop/supply meta.
 
What if the Tradition finisher added a minor supply bump? Small, yet tangible, so maybe something along the lines of +2 supply, scaling with era; about equivalent to each Tradition civ getting a Brandenburg's worth of extra units during end-game to apply where needed, but it couldn't be abused by just grabbing the opener for a +2 pop/supply meta.
Then, what is tradition weakness, just not being able to expand too much?
 
Are you able to accomplish DVs that way, or do you only go DV as wide? I often go CV/SV as tall, and do what you describe...but in going DV in my last game as Austria, I felt that without costal cities/navies, I would have no ability to protect all of the CS from getting chomped by enemy navy. Or is DV a wide man's game at higher difficulties?

I find diplomatic victory extremely hard on Deity due to the AI's bonuses in producing diplomatic units, so I'm usually going for other victory types. Maybe some other Deity players have different experience/tactics, but I find it much more cost-benefit to invest my hammers&gold into buildings, military units etc. than to try to keep CS alliances when I need thousands of influence for that. Plus I'm usually playing with Siam and China as two of my AIs (because they are among the best performing AIs in my experience) and they tend to go statecraft/CS heavy.
 
What if the Tradition finisher added a minor supply bump? Small, yet tangible, so maybe something along the lines of +2 supply, scaling with era; about equivalent to each Tradition civ getting a Brandenburg's worth of extra units during end-game to apply where needed, but it couldn't be abused by just grabbing the opener for a +2 pop/supply meta.

If you wanted to give extra supply to Tradition "in theme", here are a few options:

1) Increase supply by X% of your capitals population (bigger capital = even more supply)
2) GG and/or GA grants +1 supply on expenditure (focus on GP)
3) Have the national buildings with a building prereq also grant a +1 supply (already in the tree, just add in the +1 supply).


Or....maybe I need to just accept that tradition is very tough for coastal play, and requires a focus on those military wonders to be viable, and that is ok.
 
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