New civ linked to new resource

[awesome]

Why are people assuming it's a general resource?

Pituri makes more sense than something like rice, coffee, seals, etc. Otherwise there would be no reason to be concerned about revealing it. A civ with it's own specific resource that no other civ can get is a more interesting game mechanic. It also makes Australia a more interesting choice for inclusion.

Sorry, but it's not going to be pituri. And I don't think Australia will ever be in the game. Not in civ 5, not in civ 55.

 

[Zodan_Mir]

Honest question. Did you even know what pituri was, or have you just looked it up? If you've heard of it before, where? I can tell you right now, I don't know anyone who would know who it is apart from the person who told me about it, and they have specific reason to have been informed of what it is. It's interesting, but such a specific resource, and one which is basically unheard of to even Australians would be bizarre to say the least. I would honestly rule it out now as well, even if the developers knew what it was, simply because I don't see them having a narcotic as a resource when they don't even have something like Tobacco

Yes, I'm familiar with pituri. I've read extensively about tribal/shamanistic practices throughout the world, specifically the use of certain plants to induce visions, etc. Pituri, while not exactly the same as, say, ayahuasca or peyote, was certainly used by the aborigines of Australia as a simulant, vison-inducer, etc. It was also an important trade good.

I agree that pituri would mark a precedent in the Civ series. As you mentioned, tobacco isn't even in the game. Still, I wonder if the abstruse nature of pituri wouldn't actually make it a candidate for inclusion; as you said, most people have never heard of it.

At the very least, I use it as an example to illustrate my belief that the new resource will likely be civ-specific. It may not be pituri, but it may be something with a similarly unique origin.

 

[Kurtbob]

Even if it wasn't a civ-related luxury, I would welcome Seals as a new Ice/Tundra resource.

On topic: The Navajo come to mind as a 'luxury' linked civ because of their rugs/weavings. To add to my speculation, can we assume that since the Pueblo are out, wouldn't the devs look at a similar Native American peoples to add to the game in their place?

A Navajo civ could have a Hogan UB that creates Rugs (perhaps with a Sheep prerequisite) and a Code-Talker UU.

 

[awesome]

I think I'm the one who suggested the rug producing hogan in the ideas subforum, so I'd love that, but I don't see rugs as revealing the Navajo. Too many civilizations are significant for their rugs. It would be kind of like how Ethiopia keeps getting steles for their building, even though everybody in the ancient world had them.
In other words, they can create a connection like that, but it doesn't exist yet.

 

[Menzies]

Sorry, but it's not going to be pituri. And I don't think Australia will ever be in the game. Not in civ 5, not in civ 55.

Well, there's two things to consider about that. Firstly, there has so far been 5 releases of Civilization, these being released in the years:

Civ: 1991
Civ II: 1996
Civ III: 2001
Civ IV: 2005
Civ V: 2010

So that's about one every 5 years, or closer to 4.75. Extrapolating from that would give us a Civ LV release date of around 2248 CE.

As things stand, whilst Australia is currently quite young, it will be older in 2248 than the United States is now. That is, in 2248, Australia will be 460 years old, as compared to 406 years old currently for the oldest English colonies in what is now the United States of America. At this point we can safely conclude that Australia being a young former colony will no longer be an issue.

Then we can start to take other things into account. From a geographical point of view Australis is considered by some to "be it's own continent", and it's a huge gap on the map for the game. Without the issue of being a young former colony standing in it's way, this certainly comes even more into play.

It's quite unique geographically and from an ecological point of view, not to mention that it is a melting pot of cultures, whilst having a quite unique culture of it's own. Given time this certainly could be taken into account.

This is not to mention that Australia already is the 12th largest economy in the World as things stand, and is continuing to grow at a faster rate than almost all other developed nations. With it's huge amount of natural resources, this could potentially continue for a long time to come.

So yeah, I wouldn't rule Australia out for Civilization LV, but I really wouldn't want to see them in for Civilization V.

 

[Zodan_Mir]

Sorry, but it's not going to be pituri. And I don't think Australia will ever be in the game. Not in civ 5, not in civ 55.

You may be right. There seem to be a lot of Aussie-haters on these forums. I still think the civ/resource may be from that region, however. As I've said before--and if I were to guess at a more general resource--I would go with: tin.

As some may know, the mining of tin has become, in recent years, a major export for Indonesia. It has also become something of a powder keg for arguments over the mistreatment of indonesian miners (some who are really young) who routinely die in 'tin holes'. Keep in mind that the entire global electronics industry that we know today is largely built on the backbone of tin exports. This, alone, would make an Indonesia-->Tin link highly visible and "well known", and thus unable to be mentioned without revealing too much. (It would also fit with the whole 'globalization'/late-game theme BNW seems to be advancing.)

Civ: Indonesia
Resource: Tin

 

[spyroware]

Venice was traditionally more famous for its clothing fabrics and goldsmithing than glass. Murano glass is famous but Murano was a city in association with Venice. I'm not being pedantic! If anything Bohemia is more famous for its glassworks.


..and kangaroos? really?

 

[Menzies]

You may be right. There seem to be a lot of Aussie-haters on these forums. I still think the civ/resource may be from that region, however. As I've said before--and if I were to guess at a more general resource--I would go with: tin.

As some may know, the mining of tin has become, in recent years, a major export for Indonesia. It has also become something of a powder keg for arguments over the mistreatment of indonesian miners (some who are really young) who routinely die in 'tin holes'. Keep in mind that the entire global electronics industry that we know today is largely built on the backbone of tin exports. This, alone, would make an Indonesia-->Tin link highly visible and "well known", and thus unable to be mentioned without revealing too much.

I'm not sure if this is a reverse Streisand effect to people or something, but if they had announced: "The only new resource is tin", I would have thought: "Rightyo", not "INDONESIA CONFIRMED!".

 

[Zodan_Mir]

I'm not sure if this is a reverse Streisand effect to people or something, but if they had announced: "The only new resource is tin", I would have thought: "Rightyo", not "INDONESIA CONFIRMED!".

All this tells me is that you're not familiar with what's going on in Indonesia. I first heard about the tin mining surge a few years ago, while listening to NPR. It's a huge export--cant' be understated.

One of the first thoughts I had with regard to all this civ-resource speculation was the Indonesia-->Tin link, but even that seemed too generalized to me at first. However, given that everyone keeps putting forth a generalized example (buffalo, seals, tea, coffee, etc.)--why not?

Then again, I don't know if Firaxis wants to make an allusion--however obscure--to the tin mining that's going on in Indonesia, and all of the human rights/ethical arguments it brings. Or, maybe it would be their way of highlighting the issue.

Also, didn't they add Copper with G&K? Why not add the other half of the 'bronze equation"?

 

[sukritact]

One of the first thoughts I had with regard to all this civ-resource speculation was the Indonesia-->Tin link, but even that seemed too generalized to me at first. However, given that everyone keeps putting forth a generalized example (buffalo, seals, tea, coffee, etc.)--why not?

With Bison/Buffalos, I would have expected a Native American civ. With Seals, I expect the Inuit. The links here are fairly strong. Tea, Coffee and Tin fall in the same category IMO, to vague to be linked to a single civ, or even a single ethnic group.

I however am expecting something very specialized: Tyrian Dye, Batik Cloth, Maple Syrup (I hope not), etc.

 

[Matthew.]

All this tells me is that you're not familiar with what's going on in Indonesia. I first heard about the tin mining surge a few years ago, while listening to NPR. It's a huge export--cant' be understated.

His point is a lot of people don't... Dennis specifically stated he wasn't going to say because it would immediately reveal the Civ. If he had said tin, just about everyone watching that QA would have been like "Uhhh... tin? WTH?"

It will be something that even Joe Average, with more knowledge of Kardashian's latest love-life news than knowledge of resources, would even go "Oh, the new Civ must be blank!"

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

Correct me if i am wrong, but were poppies not a resource from polders that was later cut from the dutch?

If this is true, poppies were certainly not unique to the dutch, so something like tin and indonesia or vietnam and rice is theoretically plausible.

 

[sukritact]

Correct me if i am wrong, but were poppies not a resource from polders that was later cut from the dutch?

If this is true, poppies were certainly not unique to the dutch, so something like tin and indonesia or vietnam and rice is theoretically plausible.

Tulips, but the Dutch and Tulips sorta go hand in hand; windmills with tulips. If the Dutch weren't already in and Tulips were revealed, it'd scream THE NEDERLANDS! (Tulips don't make sense as a resource otherwise...)

Asia in general is associated with rice. And the fact it was a general bonus resource in IV meant it wouldn't have alerted us to any new civs.

 

[Menzies]

All this tells me is that you're not familiar with what's going on in Indonesia. I first heard about the tin mining surge a few years ago, while listening to NPR. It's a huge export--cant' be understated.

One of the first thoughts I had with regard to all this civ-resource speculation was the Indonesia-->Tin link, but even that seemed too generalized to me at first. However, given that everyone keeps putting forth a generalized example (buffalo, seals, tea, coffee, etc.)--why not?

Then again, I don't know if Firaxis wants to make an allusion--however obscure--to the tin mining that's going on in Indonesia, and all of the human rights/ethical arguments it brings. Or, maybe it would be their way of highlighting the issue.

Also, didn't they add Copper with G&K? Why not add the other half of the 'bronze equation"?

I know what's going on with Indonesia, but if they'd just announced a new resource it wouldn't have made me think it had any connection to a new civilization. Again, unless it's a bit of a Streisand effect, that is, we are now only speculating about it because they mentioned it in the first place.

Speaking of tin though, it's hardly unique to Indonesia, even if there is a current connection. Kuala Lumpur was actually founded as a trading post for a tin mine if I recall correctly. There is a connection, but it's not exclusive by any means.

 

[Menzies]

It will be something that even Joe Average, with more knowledge of Kardashian's latest love-life news than knowledge of resources, would even go "Oh, the new Civ must be blank!"

Hence why I'm worried that it will be Maple or Kangaroos.

 

[roguesaw]

Rugs? Interesting, but if you want "Navajo" to pop in my head roll with "turquoise". Coincidentally the Anasazi (ancient pueblo people) are said to have dealt in turquoise objects.

 

[PhilBowles]

Amber doesn't give away the identity of a Civ though.

Jade could conceivably be associated with Burma; it's one of only two source areas for jadeite, and Guatemala is already represented by the Maya.

I increasingly suspect, however, that this is a 'tragedy and madness' sort of hint - Shirk might think it's an obvious association, but it may be something we're missing because it's not actually a particularly good one. I think everyone would have guessed Portugal for Maria's shadow if we hadn't been given that "helpful" hint.

 

[Menzies]

Jade could conceivably be associated with Burma; it's one of only two source areas for jadeite, and Guatemala is already represented by the Maya.

I increasingly suspect, however, that this is a 'tragedy and madness' sort of hint - Shirk might think it's an obvious association, but it may be something we're missing because it's not actually a particularly good one. I think everyone would have guessed Portugal for Maria's shadow if we hadn't been given that "helpful" hint.

Jade is found in a lot more locations than just Guatemala and Burma. Hearing that it was included alone, without being told "it'll give it away" would never lead me to think that Burma were included either.

 

[Gucumatz]

Turquoise is admittedly one resource I hadn't thought about. Perhaps if the Pueblo (or possibly the Navajo ) are still in, Turquoise will be involved

 

[sukritact]

Turquoise is admittedly one resource I hadn't thought about. Perhaps if the Pueblo (or possibly the Navajo ) are still in, Turquoise will be involved

Turquoise is still rather vague IMHO. I wouldn't link it to any civ in particular.