New film version of Dune to be made :)

[Valka D'Ur]

The chronological order of the Dune series is this:

1. Dune
2. Dune Messiah
3. Children of Dune
4. God Emperor of Dune
5. Heretics of Dune
6. Chapterhouse: Dune

The rest of it (with the exception of the Frank Herbert-approved Dune Encyclopedia by Dr. Willis McNelly) is just very bad reboot crap written by Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert, supposedly based on "notes" found in Frank Herbert's attic. The story about these notes keeps changing, and they've never been produced and published. Some of us on the old Dunenovels forum kept challenging them to publish the notes; there is no shortage of dedicated fans, archivists, and scholars who would love to read them. But all KJA does is shrug and say they're of no interest, and why bother since the books are already written?

Of course we don't know exactly what Frank Herbert had in mind for "Dune 7" but it sure as hell wasn't cartoonish killer robots and that crap ending of Sandworms of Dune.

 

[Zardnaar]

Leto II was pre-born (adult consciousness in utero, thanks to the overdose of spice Chani was required to take during her pregnancy, to counter the poison Irulan had been dosing her with so she wouldn't conceive). Leto had prescient powers, and "knew" that there was a risk of the human race becoming extinct, as the then-current Imperium had become so jaded and complacent. Humanity needed a collective kick in the backside to get it going again - a new wave of exploration, new inventions, new ideas... and his own way of doing that was to become a tyrant.

The "Golden Path" was apparently a way to ensure humanity's survival as a species, first by cracking down on freedom - confine ordinary people to their own planets, control what they were allowed to be taught, what they were allowed to think, what they were allowed to do, and make even small transgressions subject to severe punishment, if not execution. He figured that eventually people would decide to rebel in such a way that he could not prevent it... and that would signify humanity's readiness to expand in a new wave of the aforementioned exploration, inventions, ideas, religions, etc.

He could have just taught them from the get-go; after all, Leto II had access to every ancestral memory in his own personal genealogy going back to Bronze Age Earth. But humanity's collective will just wasn't ready.

Fast-forward 3000 years; Leto has been slowly changing into a sandworm, and by that time some people have clearly had enough. The final rebellion occurs, Leto is killed, and humanity is free to go wher
thee it wants, do what it wants, and the idea was to become so spread out that it would be impossible for humanity to become extinct.

Fast-forward another 1500 years... the Bene Gesserit and Tleilaxu are basically running things, and after all this time poor Duncan Idaho is STILL being resurrected in ghola-form (he's my favorite character, but he made a good point in God Emperor of Dune: "Did you ever ask ME if I wanted to come back?". Apparently neither Leto nor the BG ever did. There is no Imperium, no more aristocracy. But there is a new threat (of course).

Somewhere "out there" is a new group of humans calling themselves the "Honored Matres." They're out to get the Bene Gesserit, and they're willing to commit genocide to do it. So it's a war between the two groups, and Frank Herbert died before he could finish writing the final novel.

The nuDune books Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune attempt to address this, and the results are so utterly cartoonish... and are really a sequel to KJA/BH's own books, rather than Frank Herbert's books. In short, they're crap. As far as I'm concerned, Dune remains an unfinished series of 6 out of 7 planned novels.

The new books were not great but the original books after God Emperor were bad IMHO.

Dune and God Emperor might be the only good Herbert books. The new ones tend to be enjoyable enough but with one dimensional cookie cutter characters.

 

[Kyriakos]

The plot did seem bad to me, from wiki, past the first Dune. Dune GE at least seems to have a freak-show going (man-sandworm hybrid) and apparently is harkening back to the first Dune novel, given even Vladimir Harkonnen is there in some form, along with Paul.

All in all, i can't say that what i read from the synopseis (plural) interested me :/ I did like the use of spice to make superbeings that fold space. But i am not sure if that is in the books a lot more than it was in the movie (where there was roughly 10 min of that, in a nearly 3 hour long movie).

Btw, @Valka D'Ur , can you answer me (in a spoiler, if you want ) just how

Spoiler :

spice and the worms are one?

Thanks!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The plot did seem bad to me, from wiki, past the first Dune. Dune GE at least seems to have a freak-show going (man-sandworm hybrid) and apparently is harkening back to the first Dune novel, given even Vladimir Harkonnen is there in some form, along with Paul.

All in all, i can't say that what i read from the synopseis (plural) interested me :/ I did like the use of spice to make superbeings that fold space. But i am not sure if that is in the books a lot more than it was in the movie (where there was roughly 10 min of that, in a nearly 3 hour long movie).

Btw, @Valka D'Ur , can you answer me (in a spoiler, if you want ) just how

Spoiler :

spice and the worms are one?

Thanks!

Check your PMs.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The new books were not great but the original books after God Emperor were bad IMHO.

Dune and God Emperor might be the only good Herbert books. The new ones tend to be enjoyable enough but with one dimensional cookie cutter characters.

From what I've read, Frank Herbert wrote Heretics and Chapterhouse because he needed the money. And since Chapterhouse ended on a cliffhanger, he was working on a final novel to wrap things up.

But don't ask me WTH he was doing with the age-inappropriate seductions in Heretics or the incest in Chapterhouse. Holy crap, that stuff with Duncan and Miles Teg was revolting!


Rant: I've just finished watching the first miniseries on YouTube. For some reason, there are two important scenes missing - one of them crucial. How can someone upload the Dune miniseries but omit the Water of Life scene?!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I've just found a couple of Dune-related videos. The first consists of people involved in the cast, production office, and crew, along with a couple of reviewers - including Harlan Ellison - discussing the Lynch movie.

And then, I found an interview Dr. Willis McNelly did with Frank Herbert. Dr. NcNelly is the person who wrote The Dune Encyclopedia (which is definitely worth reading).

 

[warpus]

Re Lynch's Dune, it is a bit underwhelming that the emperor with (at least nominal) control of "the known universe" can only bring so few troops with him and they are defeated by a desert people of one planet.

The Emperor had his personal Sardaukar soldiers with him, elite troops who in theory should be able to take down much larger armies. One of the big storylines in the story is how surprised everybody is that Paul is able to make such good use of the Fremen, who everybody thought were just desert nomads. Paul managed to turn them into a lethal fighting force, capable of defeating the emperor's Sardaukar. Plus there was the whole "I'll destroy all the spice if you don't do what I say" thing, which forced the Emperor's hand. A giant army backing him up wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Kyriakos]

^The premise that only Melange (spice) can allow for the Guild navigators and thus space folding, is a bit weak too. I suppose it is more realistic that while other spices/stuff might work too, the navigators/guild are way too entrenched in power to allow for looking for alternatives. That said, it seems the plot later in the novels is that flow of spice stops, and nothing new is found to allow folding of space.

 

[Ajidica]

That said, it seems the plot later in the novels is that flow of spice stops, and nothing new is found to allow folding of space.

Not true
A big part of God Emperor/Heretics of Dune is that both the Guild monopoly on space travel and the Arrakis monopoly on Spice is broken.

 

[warpus]

The spice in Dune is a drug. IIRC people in the story call it "the spice" because it happens to look and smell a bit like cinnamon. Kind of like people call cocaine "snow" because it's white. In this case you can actually cook with spice and use it as a spice, so you can make spice cakes, spice omlettes, spice coffee, etc. So it's no wonder that "the spice" nickname stuck. But yeah, first and foremost it is a mind-altering drug. So it's not like you could try other spices like basil or cinnamon and try to see into the future and do all the calculations necessary for folding space. Everybody would probably die, so maybe they did do tests like that, and only "the spice" worked, so they stuck with that.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

^The premise that only Melange (spice) can allow for the Guild navigators and thus space folding, is a bit weak too. I suppose it is more realistic that while other spices/stuff might work too, the navigators/guild are way too entrenched in power to allow for looking for alternatives. That said, it seems the plot later in the novels is that flow of spice stops, and nothing new is found to allow folding of space.

The thing about spice is that it's something that extends life, enhances visions (for the Bene Gesserit and the Atreides), and allows the Guild Navigators to see a safe way through space. It's not so much the folding of space itself that the spice is critical for, but doing it safely. After all, you don't want to board a Heighliner and end up materializing inside a star or planet, right?

So the spice is not only something used as a condiment, pharmaceutical, or method of experiencing visions... it's also used as currency both for legal and illegal transactions. Of course the Guild and the Emperor (or whoever is in charge) are going to try to control it.

Not true
A big part of God Emperor/Heretics of Dune is that both the Guild monopoly on space travel and the Arrakis monopoly on Spice is broken.

In God Emperor, Leto controls the spice. He decides who does and doesn't get it, and if you displease him, he'll cut your allotment.

In Heretics, Odrade discovers Leto's lost spice hoard - which is a real boost to the Bene Gesserit coffers. Of course by that time, it's thousands of years later and the Bene Gesserit, Tleilaxu, and Ix are the major players with the Honored Matres coming after the Bene Gesserit. The Honored Matres use a different substance that turns their eyes orange.

I'm going to have to re-read the later books.

 

[Ajidica]

In God Emperor, Leto controls the spice. He decides who does and doesn't get it, and if you displease him, he'll cut your allotment.

I thought there were rumblings about the Ixians developing prescient computers that replaced a Guild Navigator and the Tleilaxu were trying to figure out artificial spice. Or I'm remembering it wrong. God Emperor was boring enough I skimmed most of it.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I thought there were rumblings about the Ixians developing prescient computers that replaced a Guild Navigator and the Tleilaxu were trying to figure out artificial spice. Or I'm remembering it wrong. God Emperor was boring enough I skimmed most of it.

The Tleilaxu experimented with artificial spice in the nuDune books, which as far as I'm concerned, are not canon.

 

[warpus]

Yeah, there is some interesting stuff happening wrt artificial/alternative spice/navigators in the pre/sequels by Brian Herbert. It only makes sense that there would be attempts to get around the spice monopoly on space travel by various parties, at various times.

 

[Kyriakos]

Hm, so who will be playing Paul?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Haven't heard, and honestly, haven't cared. If KJA/BH are involved with this, it's going to be awful, so until I know for sure that they will have nothing to do with it, I'm not going to invest the energy to look forward to it.

 

[Angst]

However they should lift certain parts from the old soundtrack for this adaption.

(From about 2:15 to the end)
(srsly listen to it)
(2:50 is so epic in the movie, it's not explainable as condensed here)

... I mean of course they won't do this, but the score was the one thing DUNE did right.

They have a lot to live up to in that regard.

 

[Akka]

So it's a war between the two groups, and Frank Herbert died before he could finish writing the final novel.

The nuDune books Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune attempt to address this, and the results are so utterly cartoonish... and are really a sequel to KJA/BH's own books, rather than Frank Herbert's books. In short, they're crap. As far as I'm concerned, Dune remains an unfinished series of 6 out of 7 planned novels.

Well, just take Warhammer 40K as the follow-up, it seems to fit rather nicely

 

[Valka D'Ur]

However they should lift certain parts from the old soundtrack for this adaption.

(From about 2:15 to the end)
(srsly listen to it)
(2:50 is so epic in the movie, it's not explainable as condensed here)

... I mean of course they won't do this, but the score was the one thing DUNE did right.

They have a lot to live up to in that regard.

After 32+ years, this music still gives me chills. Unlike the younger Lynch movie fans, I saw it in the theatre, as it was meant to be experienced. I don't use the word "awesome" very often, but I will in this instance.

Well, just take Warhammer 40K as the follow-up, it seems to fit rather nicely

I'm not familiar with Warhammer 40K.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, just take Warhammer 40K as the follow-up, it seems to fit rather nicely

Is there any plan for a WH40K movie?