New Game- random leader:Roosevelt
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Packers5280
Deity
So I would get the worker onto the pigs, and bring home the bacon. From there, I would improve the cows, and finally the rice.
Warriors until size 3 and then settler. Maybe even substitute an Inkanda for a warrior. Mining>BW like you did earlier.
Warriors until size 3 and then settler. Maybe even substitute an Inkanda for a warrior. Mining>BW like you did earlier.
+ how many turns to reaach the tile and start improving
Micro challange?
As far as I remember pasture is 4 turns, farm 5 turns. Even though we can start farm the very first turn, it is better to pusture pigs prior, as it adds 1 more hammer than irrigated rice and will be ready the same turn.
From pigs other r tiles are available in 2nd turn, so I will probably pasture first pigs then cows (higher total yield then rice) and last rice.
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Joe, Patch and enKage bring up one very important point with their questioning. You really need to start thinking about the details of worker management and tile/resource yields. It's all about maximizing your production as fast as possible via improvements.
Personally, where I differ is that I would indeed pasture the pigs first as ultimately the pasture will be finished at the same time the wet rice would, but with higher yield (+1H). However, I would farm the wet rice next because I value food early over production (cows). Pigs and Rice would be +2 over Pork and Beef.
You can then move to the grass hill next to the rice and mine that at which point you should reach size 3 to start building settler, after building a couple of warriors. After the mine you can chop a forest, if you have BW.
Pre-roading to a new city is often desirable as it gives you an insta-trade route. Trade routes are always important and you should note their value. However, you don't always have the luxury of doing so immediately for the first city.
After the settler you can put a chop into another worker and then start your road to the new city. EXP workers get hammer boost, so chops really help get them out fast.
After your first settler and 2nd worker at size 3, with some help from chops, you can look to start growing Ulundi to size 4 and 5 onto improved cows and maybe another mine. At that point this city will have very nice production. You can whip in your cap, but you want to try to keep it close or at happy cap, especially when the Library arrives as you want to run 2 scientists there asap.
Your other cities can take much more whip abuse.
Again, start thinking about the details vs. going through the motions. Civ is a strategy game after all so it requires some thought.
Personally, where I differ is that I would indeed pasture the pigs first as ultimately the pasture will be finished at the same time the wet rice would, but with higher yield (+1H). However, I would farm the wet rice next because I value food early over production (cows). Pigs and Rice would be +2 over Pork and Beef.
You can then move to the grass hill next to the rice and mine that at which point you should reach size 3 to start building settler, after building a couple of warriors. After the mine you can chop a forest, if you have BW.
Pre-roading to a new city is often desirable as it gives you an insta-trade route. Trade routes are always important and you should note their value. However, you don't always have the luxury of doing so immediately for the first city.
After the settler you can put a chop into another worker and then start your road to the new city. EXP workers get hammer boost, so chops really help get them out fast.
After your first settler and 2nd worker at size 3, with some help from chops, you can look to start growing Ulundi to size 4 and 5 onto improved cows and maybe another mine. At that point this city will have very nice production. You can whip in your cap, but you want to try to keep it close or at happy cap, especially when the Library arrives as you want to run 2 scientists there asap.
Your other cities can take much more whip abuse.
Again, start thinking about the details vs. going through the motions. Civ is a strategy game after all so it requires some thought.
@lymond
I value cows over rice this game because it will take only one turn from farm to grasshills (2 turns from cows) So we have 4 tiles improved 1 turn earlier. Cows will also be improved 1 turn earlier than rice. We will grow to size 3 before rice will be improved if we choose rice as 2nd tile (do I count correct?)
And it is better to work 6yield tile longer while building settler
I value cows over rice this game because it will take only one turn from farm to grasshills (2 turns from cows) So we have 4 tiles improved 1 turn earlier. Cows will also be improved 1 turn earlier than rice. We will grow to size 3 before rice will be improved if we choose rice as 2nd tile (do I count correct?)
And it is better to work 6yield tile longer while building settler
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Looking good, Joe. (Actually, I tested enkage's approach and it does get the settler a turn early, but still this is very good)
Try to keep your warriors closer to home. You now have no warrior to escort your settler. You have a scout - he can do that for you, but no reason to have the warrior in the west when he could be spawnbusting for your new city. The warrior in the south is fine though - you have the right idea there.
Lake spot is good, but I would settle for that gold spot first. Gold is so important to work early if you have it - huge boost. Actually, I would usually try to settle so that it was workable immediately but 2N of there is better overall city and nice commerce city. It can share the Pigs at times to help it grow. City overlap and resource sharing is a great thing early.
So settle 2N of gold. You will have another settler quite soon and should have no problem grabbing the cow/stone.
I would look to grow to size 4 before the next worker. That might be different if you were already in position to chop a worker, but now that is not the case. Also, BW will reveal your next obvious move for worker1.
So start a warrior or Ikhanda (Ikhandas are great early building)
Tech TW>Myst>POT>Writing>Alpha
I like Myst early here to get border pop for second city for gold asap.
EXP worker will come very fast at size 4.
Don't forget to switch to slavery next turn since your settler will pop out and be in transit. Often a great time for slavery switch as you don't feel anarchy in city 2.
edit: Not only can city 2 share Pigs as needed, but also copper.
oh..and I'm attaching a save for you to check out to see what things look like
Try to keep your warriors closer to home. You now have no warrior to escort your settler. You have a scout - he can do that for you, but no reason to have the warrior in the west when he could be spawnbusting for your new city. The warrior in the south is fine though - you have the right idea there.
Lake spot is good, but I would settle for that gold spot first. Gold is so important to work early if you have it - huge boost. Actually, I would usually try to settle so that it was workable immediately but 2N of there is better overall city and nice commerce city. It can share the Pigs at times to help it grow. City overlap and resource sharing is a great thing early.
So settle 2N of gold. You will have another settler quite soon and should have no problem grabbing the cow/stone.
I would look to grow to size 4 before the next worker. That might be different if you were already in position to chop a worker, but now that is not the case. Also, BW will reveal your next obvious move for worker1.
So start a warrior or Ikhanda (Ikhandas are great early building)
Tech TW>Myst>POT>Writing>Alpha
I like Myst early here to get border pop for second city for gold asap.
EXP worker will come very fast at size 4.
Don't forget to switch to slavery next turn since your settler will pop out and be in transit. Often a great time for slavery switch as you don't feel anarchy in city 2.
edit: Not only can city 2 share Pigs as needed, but also copper.
oh..and I'm attaching a save for you to check out to see what things look like
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attaching another save from a little later.
I have 3 cities and just 3 popped whipped a settler in Ulundi with 22 hammers overflow, which will go into the Library.
Gold city can now take that copper from Ulundi which will finish granary asap - I put chop in granary too.
Soon the gold will be online for an extra happy and city1 can work gold for big commerce boost.
Ulundi will finish Library - I'll probably have a worker put a chop into it and then run 2 scientists asap.
Keep in mind that all the land to your East can be settled at any time but focus on any key spots in the West and North, but no to far away. Try to keep things as compact as possible, but obviously settle for resources, especially food.
I have 3 cities and just 3 popped whipped a settler in Ulundi with 22 hammers overflow, which will go into the Library.
Gold city can now take that copper from Ulundi which will finish granary asap - I put chop in granary too.
Soon the gold will be online for an extra happy and city1 can work gold for big commerce boost.
Ulundi will finish Library - I'll probably have a worker put a chop into it and then run 2 scientists asap.
Keep in mind that all the land to your East can be settled at any time but focus on any key spots in the West and North, but no to far away. Try to keep things as compact as possible, but obviously settle for resources, especially food.
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ha..getting about 200 gold from huts...ugh...is very misleading. Obviously once you start settling cities you go into "deficit" research. Once writing is in, start practicing binary research. This involves run 0% research for some turns to accumulate gold that lets you a) fund expansion b) fund your next tech. This becomes even more important as you move up levels and costs go up. It does take some practice to get used to it.
again, huts and events completely skew everything wacky
again, huts and events completely skew everything wacky
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Well, Mids is a good play, but we've been focusing more on a non-wonder approach. Mids is still very easy to get here with settling stone second.
Joe really needs lots of help with basic stuff and I think Mids would throw that off a bit, even though it is a great play. He's far from grasping the benefits of Mids at this stage, but he can still build it.
Joe really needs lots of help with basic stuff and I think Mids would throw that off a bit, even though it is a great play. He's far from grasping the benefits of Mids at this stage, but he can still build it.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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Well learning to use Pyramids is very important.
But not only that, stone city could be in danger if Kublai settles there first.
Maybe not on Noble, but you should learn priorities early.
No question, that city must be settled first in all games.
Great spot, far better than gold.
But not only that, stone city could be in danger if Kublai settles there first.
Maybe not on Noble, but you should learn priorities early.
No question, that city must be settled first in all games.
Great spot, far better than gold.
UnforcedError
Settler
^^I think it's a no brainer to outsettle and outtech the AI on Noble, even without the Pyramids, and we'd like to take a no early wonder approach here just to give Joe a largely map independent feel (if that's at all possible) of the early game.
I like what you did so far, Joe Also agree on 2N of the gold. If TW is teched now you won't lose too much TR commerce, but and will indeed need Mysticism as lymond suggests afterwards to pop the gold city.
I like what you did so far, Joe
Also agree on 2N of the gold. If TW is teched now you won't lose too much TR commerce, but and will indeed need Mysticism as lymond suggests afterwards to pop the gold city.I agree completly with Lymond (edit: and UnforcedError; crossposted)
Your aim is to learn... While pyramid is likely a very good play on THIS map (and on many), it is not always there for you, especially as you move up through the levels... Winning this map easily without relying on it (as you will do following Lymond's advice) will teach you more than making a wonder based play, because Lymond's approach is one that will allow you te level up to at least emporer... At some point, you will have to learn to identify correct wonder-plays, but that can wait quite a while.
Your aim is to learn... While pyramid is likely a very good play on THIS map (and on many), it is not always there for you, especially as you move up through the levels... Winning this map easily without relying on it (as you will do following Lymond's advice) will teach you more than making a wonder based play, because Lymond's approach is one that will allow you te level up to at least emporer... At some point, you will have to learn to identify correct wonder-plays, but that can wait quite a while.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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Fine if you like using Noble for wrong plays, which will be just harder to change later..all your thread again :b You are not taking Joe very serious this way.
Even if i skip Pyramids, not settling wet rice - cows - stone first but instead some city that only shares good tiles which should still be used by your Cap for now..go ahead.
Even if i skip Pyramids, not settling wet rice - cows - stone first but instead some city that only shares good tiles which should still be used by your Cap for now..go ahead.
Cities:
Very low on commerce, so, 3SW, share pigs.
AI is stupid, but not so much. havng better food around (you scouted a little Mongolian surrounding, didnt you?) will not settle food-poor stones
Remember to revolt to slavery while a setler is on its way
Techs:
You need mysticism (if you settle my spot), wheel, pottery (writing before pottery?) - personally I think this order
Buildings
Build warriors until pop4, then worker twice
I shadowed too, got tons of gold from cottaged + masonry, I took wilagges also from far west and have 10 exp scout. Huts are noyt good for learning games
Very low on commerce, so, 3SW, share pigs.
AI is stupid, but not so much. havng better food around (you scouted a little Mongolian surrounding, didnt you?) will not settle food-poor stones
Remember to revolt to slavery while a setler is on its way
Techs:
You need mysticism (if you settle my spot), wheel, pottery (writing before pottery?) - personally I think this order
Buildings
Build warriors until pop4, then worker twice
I shadowed too, got tons of gold from cottaged + masonry, I took wilagges also from far west and have 10 exp scout. Huts are noyt good for learning games
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