New Game- random leader:Roosevelt

[UnforcedError]

Fippy, that's a bit unfair and misleading. The map could also be warrior rushed (no need to wait for cuirs, hm?) but that is definitly not a tactic we want to teach Joe right now. What we want is to give a solid foundation he can take with him and employ in other games. No need to make him Pyramids dependent

 

[pigswill]

Its better to be lucky than good :

Spoiler alert! Map info...

Spoiler :

3960. Pop mining from hut near stone.
3800. Pop BW from hut north of capital.

 

[Fippy]

What's "unfair and misleading" for Joe is you teaching him do not settle an important block city first, that would be lost on serious diff. level if not settled first and besides all that also has great tiles and follow a simple rule of make your 2nd city productive.

 

[joe6778]

Thanks guys for the help. But I seem to be getting different advice and I'm a bit confused about what I should be doing next.

 

[sampsa]

I understand your point, Fippy - there is no point in spending huge amounts of time learning a strategy that needs to be revised later. However, if a player has trouble beating a level as forgiving as Noble, he/she really should stick to understanding the basic mechanics and a no-wonder approach feels sensible in this regard. This thread should not be about optimal play.

 

[lymond]

Thanks guys for the help. But I seem to be getting different advice and I'm a bit confused about what I should be doing next.

Hey Joe - I realize you are confused, but the debate here is a good thing. Don't just brush it off, but rather really read this stuff and try to understand the discussion. Ask questions and then you can come to your own determination. Be part of the conversation, not just an innocent bystander.

Anyway, you are getting advice from some good players, and Flippy () is one of the best ever, so you can't go wrong.

As a note, when you talk about city spots, be specific. Either Alt-S the spot, use the BUG dot-mapper, or denote directionally.

 

[Fippy]

All fine Joe, not sure why i got into this one so much
Go with what Lymo suggests, you are his "student"
Agree with him that this discussion can actually help you more than only playing your turns, like he says try understanding some pro/cons and you are already some very important steps further.

 

[joe6778]

All fine Joe, not sure why i got into this one so much
Go with what Lymo suggests, you are his "student"
Agree with him that this discussion can actually help you more than only playing your turns, like he says try understanding some pro/cons and you are already some very important steps further.

Excellent. I need this and I appreciate the time and effort everyone is making.

 

[Patchface]

Well learning to use Pyramids is very important.

I second this. When you start 5 tiles away from stone then you have to consider a Mids play. It isn't like other wonders (GLib or GLH) where after building you carry on as usual and reap a passive benefit. If you decide to build Mids then you have to follow it up with further deliberations about how to really abuse it.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Get the Pyramids and run Representation. It makes the game soooooo easy on this map.

Focus on winning this map whatever means it takes. Always play the map. And this map screams "build the Pyramids."

Once you have the Pyramids, 3 cities, and Representation, whip out Impi and kill your neighbors with 12 impis. This is a basic skill too: using Pyramids to kill people. Representation allows you to whip 3 more times from each of your cities (gives you +3 happiness, which cancels the +3 unhappiness from 3 more whips), which means each city can produce 3 more impis. Think about that.

Build a ton of shi- early and kill stuff. Best way to win the game. Also teaches you the right mindset for playing harder difficulties.

 

[joe6778]

Get the Pyramids and run Representation. It makes the game soooooo easy on this map.

Focus on winning this map whatever means it takes. Always play the map. And this map screams "build the Pyramids."

Once you have the Pyramids, 3 cities, and Representation, whip out Impi and kill your neighbors with 12 impis. This is a basic skill too: using Pyramids to kill people. Representation allows you to whip 3 more times from each of your cities (gives you +3 happiness, which cancels the +3 unhappiness from 3 more whips), which means each city can produce 3 more impis. Think about that.

Build a ton of shi- early and kill stuff. Best way to win the game. Also teaches you the right mindset for playing harder difficulties.

At what point do I build pyramids?

 

[MarigoldRan]

Put 2nd or 3rd city next to stone, in that awesome spot. 2 production cities, one cottage city (the one near gold and flood plains).

Connect stone city to capital. Don't forget to do that.

Once connected, start Pyramids in capital since Pyramids take a while to build and your capital has the most production. You'll need 4-5 workers to get those roads up quickly (general rule: expand first, but make sure you IMMEDIATELY improve newly made cities). Mine the hills, improve the special resources, build granaries first in every city followed by an Ikhanda.

In the meantime, get Mysticism, and start building Stonehenge in Stone City quickly (after getting granary and possibly Ikhanda).

Once the stone city border's increase, you can chop all the forests there. This combined with Pyramids for whips means massive production. Once you have Pyramids, DON'T FORGET TO CHANGE TO REPRESENTATION. You can churn out 12-15 impis quickly and kill your neighbors. Learn the 3-city rush. At Noble it auto-wins. At higher difficulties, it's a common strategy though with variations and different units (like Horse Archers).

Your techs: Myst, Masonry, BW, mining, AH, Agriculture, Pottery, Wheel, and Writing. Get Pottery early since you're expansive, which means cheap granaries.

Then after killing someone, try to get Currency because you're going to have money problems. But that's all you need. You can probably win with just that and mass Impis.

 

[joe6778]

I'm assuming the stone city is adjacent to the lake. Do I settle S of lake or SE on hill?

 

[MarigoldRan]

P.S. After beating this map, go back and play it except do the warrior rush. Just build warriors from your capital and kill your neighbor. LEARN the warrior rush. Good skill to have.

EDIT: There's a spot that's immediately next to 3 resources, a rice, and a stone, and a cow. That spot. Get the cow improved up ASAP followed by the rice. Use the worker from your capital to improve city #2, and build another worker for your capital. Then build a 3rd worker for roads from your capital to the Stone city, and then a 3rd settler. By then you should have pottery, a which point build granaries in capital and a worker in your second city, followed by granaries and Ikhandas there too and let the cities grow.

You should have 4-5 workers, and a granary and Ikhanda in every city, at which point use the workers to connect the Stone city to the capital, at which point you start the Pyramids in your capital and the Stonehenge in the stone city.

 

[UnforcedError]

Joe: you can of course play this game however you want. But I really think you should focus on the basics here and learn empire management. This game is winnable in the BCs via conquest (but without the Pyramids, that's an incredible waste of hammers in this particular case and it would delay the victory by some margin) with warriors, later chariots and impis (you already have the techs you need, maybe TW & Pottery would be nice, no need for Mids). However, this is not what we want to focus on. Let's keep it simple for a learning game. Let's learn how to outsettle and outtech the AI. I think that's a lot more important, because it will be a strategy you could comfortably rely on other maps as well. Leave the Mids for later.

EDIT: leave warrior rushes for later as well. I'm beginning to suspect you could never really improve your game using such threads because you got tons of contradicting advice from everyone. Focus on Lymond please.

 

[joe6778]

Joe: you can of course play this game however you want. But I really think you should focus on the basics here and learn empire management. This game is winnable in the BCs via conquest (but without the Pyramids, that's an incredible waste of hammers in this particular case and it would delay the victory by some margin) with warriors, later chariots and impis (you already have the techs you need, maybe TW & Pottery would be nice, no need for Mids). However, this is not what we want to focus on. Let's keep it simple for a learning game. Let's learn how to outsettle and outtech the AI. I think that's a lot more important, because it will be a strategy you could comfortably rely on other maps as well. Leave the Mids for later.

OK- so you're suggesting I forget about pyramids (and the 2nd stone city) and follow Lymond's original directions?

 

[MarigoldRan]

No.

He needs to learn how to kill people. We'll worry about "Empire Management" once he's learned how to GET an empire in the first place.

What's the point "empire management" if you don't have an empire? Do not follow Lymond's direction. He's a purist. This map screams Pyramids. Your second city SHOULD be the stone city. If you were playing at Deity level on this map, EVERYONE would try to put their second city in that spot.

 

[UnforcedError]

What's the point "empire management" if you don't have an empire? Do not follow Lymond's direction. He's a purist. This map screams Pyramids. Your second city SHOULD be the stone city. If you were playing at Deity level on this map, EVERYONE would try to put their second city in that spot.

Pyramids costs 200 with IND + stone. This is not Deity. For 200 you can almost get enough units to kill the whole map. No, the Pyramids is NOT the fastest win on this map. But fortunately we don't want to care about 'fastest' or 'most optimal' wins for the moment. We want to teach Joe how to build up a stable empire. If you have a tech lead you can go to war whenever and however you want. That's the main point of this game. Economy.

@Joe: yes, I'd definitely advise to go with Lymond's original suggestions. Maybe you should even delete that stupid stone.

 

[MarigoldRan]

And the best way to get an economy that can sustain you post-rush is to build the Pyramids. If there's stone nearby and decent production cities, BUILD the Pyramids. THAT is a good skill to learn. Do not listen to the silly purists. They're the reason why you're not getting better. They're breaking the cardinal rule, which is to play the map.

The point of an economy is to kill people with them. Get 3 cities, get a granary and Ikhanda in each one, build the Pyramids, chop, build, and whip Impis. We'll worry about what to do if there's no stone NEXT GAME. BUT THIS GAME HAS STONE. SO USE IT.

 

[UnforcedError]

Well, it's your call, Joe But please don't get into the STONE, STONE I must have the PYRAMIDS routine because that's ultimately the worst strategy you could learn from us.