Asterix Rage
Warlord
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- 1,585
All is said in one quote. At last
New Hotfix Version (12-15)
- Thread starter Gazebo
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All is said in one quote. At last
The reason I stopped playing Epic is because any civ with an early UU just levels up those units super quickly and wins the game in talented hands. The XP thing was intended to compensate (and is meant as just an experiment). There is no perfect solution, its really difficult to balance 4 different versions of the same game. The issue with Epic is you can easily have level 6 or 7 seven archers by the Renaissance, whereas in standard you would likely have only level 4 or 5.
If you go by number of years, you do get more combat in on epic or marathon than standard, by a lot. Maybe per war is about the same, but you fight more wars
Asterix Rage
Warlord
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More wars deserve more rewards
More wars (and others complications) is what we are looking for in Marathon
tu_79
Deity
But you are unbalancing the game towards warmongering.
Txurce
Deity
I played several games with Washington (definitely a high-end civ) and find the new Immortal competitive as is. I haven't won yet, but am in the game and having a good time playing. More specifically, taking holy cities led me to build more armies than navies, and I wound up playing a few games in a row where I had no island cities for the first time in... years? The point is that, with Pacifism, my happiness has gone from somewhere on the (+) scale to occasionally breaking 100. This is based on 5+ games, so I'm wondering if the unhappiness in island cities is set too high. There shouldn't be that big a difference.
Plus, war is already its own reward (conquering territory, weakening opponents, etc.).
My reasononing is that I want aggressive warlike play and more peaceful play to both be viable, on epic war is so much better when you earn promotions too quickly. If you get a bunch of level 9 or 10 units and your science isn't awful you win the game
BiteInTheMark
Deity
Even the promotion of units is delayed by the formula, war is easier in epic and marathon cause your units didnt get outdated while fighting and you can go more often to war as in standard speed.
Asterix Rage
Warlord
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- More and less true. If you're awful in science and focus on war, everybody will be against you. And you lose. A bunch of highly trained old units are nothing when you have to face multi front from a bunch of irritated civs well equiped with level 3 tanks.
- Level 9 !? I'm not sure if I ever got one in my numerous Marathon games. Recons maybe
- Even if I can reach level 9. Opponents too. Balanced anyway
What is true in a game can be not in an other.
You can have Zulu, Aztec and Hunnic as neighbors. It will be the same nightmar whatever the leveling mechanics in place.
Your reasoning is viable in some cases but over all don't underestimate the satisfying effect of being rewarded with a new level. Don't underestimate the spicy effect when the very rare level 9 Unit is not yours.
All promotions are like medals. It's challenging every time through a game. Look all the mods making new promotions, they are popular.
Diet fashion must not infect Civilization VP. Eventually make an option for those with poor health.
I play Immortal or the level below. I don't win all the games in spite playing Marathon. If one day I do, I'll play Deity.
SLGray
Emperor
What exactly is wrong with it?
Well, what update did I miss? Was the Great Lighthouse changed for one of its component to obsolete? The +1 sight and movement maybe? It's pretty odd. *-*
ElliotS
Warmonger
Not that I know of. That's great wall text right there.
-He literally added the caverat that you can't be aweful at science. You're proving his point.
-Then you're bad. No way to dance around it. Even mildly incompetent warmongers can get level 9 units on marathon and even epic pretty early.
-AIs cannot. They lose units too easily.
Aren't you arguing I'm overestimating promotions?
I was making a balance suggestion, nothing more. I do feel that epic is boring because its so easy with one strategy being clearly better than others, but I see how having super high level units can be fun
A suggestion please. How about soft-capping exp after a certain level ? For example, make leveling from 1 to 4 generally the same (60, iirc), double the exp needed to 5 and 6, x3 exp to 7, x4 to 8,....
Make it simple to get to around lv 4 5 6 (so even the AI will have no problem getting there) so that each unit can get just enough upgrade to specialize. After that point you need a lot more exp to level up thus it will greatly increase the effort to get super op high level units (you can still get a few, but you'll have to keep grinding from early and maintain them the whole game thus you can't get an army of high level units). This also help with people who don't want to maintain a big army or go warmonger early to "build up" their lv (as you can get to lv 4 with barrack + armory + military academy already).
The soft cap suggested is just a reference, but iirc you can manually change the base exp needed so it shouldn't be hard to do.
Make it simple to get to around lv 4 5 6 (so even the AI will have no problem getting there) so that each unit can get just enough upgrade to specialize. After that point you need a lot more exp to level up thus it will greatly increase the effort to get super op high level units (you can still get a few, but you'll have to keep grinding from early and maintain them the whole game thus you can't get an army of high level units). This also help with people who don't want to maintain a big army or go warmonger early to "build up" their lv (as you can get to lv 4 with barrack + armory + military academy already).
The soft cap suggested is just a reference, but iirc you can manually change the base exp needed so it shouldn't be hard to do.
Blue Ghost
King
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Are you using Tekamthi’s Maritime Battles+? The description for that mod says that it obsoletes Great Lighthouse at Dynamite.
BiteInTheMark
Deity
Playing a game at the moment at emperor difficult, ive meet ragusa with 8 warriors at turn 54. This is silly. Why do they produce so many units?
LukaSlovenia29
Emperor
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- Mar 13, 2016
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- 1,500
Bite, it's possible they've been gifted some of these warriors by the AI.
My problem whit marathon...and epic is not that they are super easy, I dont play em so I could care less, my problem is that they are not "overall" easier, I mean they kind are, but the war is so tilted against the ai that you can easily win 9 game out of 10 on any difficulty by going warmonger from turn 1, as opposed to going peaceful and experiencing at least somewhat of a challenge, units take 200% to make but take and do the same damage , move the same speed, and while on standard the ai can quickly replace the units it loses on wars, they take 200% more to replace the very same units, and that delay is what kills them, civ is a game about snowballs, and the slower the game speed the more turns you have to do it, should you chose to snowball out of war instead you science or tourism you are almost guaranteed to win.
This is coming from someone who used to win 80% of games on deity playing epic speed, and after going to standard won about 3 among dozens and went down to immortal because its just to hard.
This is coming from someone who used to win 80% of games on deity playing epic speed, and after going to standard won about 3 among dozens and went down to immortal because its just to hard.
It is just a point of view what is "faster" or "slower" and "easier" or "harder" because of that. Everyone is just used to 500 turns as normal. If "normal" was 750 turns, everyone would be saying that 500 turns (quick) is too difficult (no time to level up units!)
Firaxis just made 500 turns as standard from simple "playability" and thus revenues PoV. If 1500 turns (marathon) was a "normal" speed, the game without QuickCombat and QuickMoves would take, idk, 60+ hours? Not many would like to repeat the experience, except for fans. 500 turns gives 20+ hours game, enough to try again, and maybe again. And if you have QuickCombat&Moves, you can squeeze to 10-15h. Replayability... more copies sold... money...
Have you noticed the super-speed in Civ6 that is like double-speed? Can you imagine playing VP in 250 turns?
The more units / buildings / features is there on the tech tree, the less time you have to actually use them, have fun with them. VP is quite loaded with them and many of us would like more (hence the mods). And don't forget that Eras usually take 50-60 turns. Sometimes it takes 10 turns to actually prepare for war and get to enemy (big maps, naval attacks). It really doesn't leave many turns for actual fight and suddenly you have unlocked new units. I personally find Epic the optimal speed for that reason. It gives that 100-150 turns more to actually have fun with all the units and buildings and I don't feel "hurried" by the turns quickly passing and techs unlocking every 5-6 turns in late game.
Firaxis just made 500 turns as standard from simple "playability" and thus revenues PoV. If 1500 turns (marathon) was a "normal" speed, the game without QuickCombat and QuickMoves would take, idk, 60+ hours? Not many would like to repeat the experience, except for fans. 500 turns gives 20+ hours game, enough to try again, and maybe again. And if you have QuickCombat&Moves, you can squeeze to 10-15h. Replayability... more copies sold... money...
Have you noticed the super-speed in Civ6 that is like double-speed? Can you imagine playing VP in 250 turns?
The more units / buildings / features is there on the tech tree, the less time you have to actually use them, have fun with them. VP is quite loaded with them and many of us would like more (hence the mods). And don't forget that Eras usually take 50-60 turns. Sometimes it takes 10 turns to actually prepare for war and get to enemy (big maps, naval attacks). It really doesn't leave many turns for actual fight and suddenly you have unlocked new units. I personally find Epic the optimal speed for that reason. It gives that 100-150 turns more to actually have fun with all the units and buildings and I don't feel "hurried" by the turns quickly passing and techs unlocking every 5-6 turns in late game.
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