New Hotfix Version (12-15)

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Anything else I've missed?

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There is consensus that the following pantheons need changes:
  1. Earth Mother - Buff
  2. God of the Open Sky - Buff
  3. Festivals - Buff
  4. God of the Expanse - Tweak
  5. Springtime - Change - Nerf
Leading suggestions were:

Earth mother: +1 :c5faith: to iron (unimproved, to make it 2:c5faith: improved.)
God of the Open Sky: +1 :c5faith: to horses (unimproved, to make it 2:c5faith: improved.) OR make the pantheon read "+1 :c5faith: on horses, cows and sheep. +1:c5culture: for each 2 plains/grassland tiles worked."
Festivals: +2:c5gold:/:c5faith: on trade routes. (If possible) or add a :c5gold: to the yields and probably a faith somewhere else.
God of Expanse: The 15:c5food: yield feels wrong (steps on authority's toes) so changing it to 8:c5production: would be good. Or 6:c5production: to err on side of not OP.
Springtime: Remove :c5culture:, possibly add an extra :c5food: to make up for it. (Once again to err on side of possibly OP or possibly UP.)

I'm kinda tired and the pantheon thread happened a bit ago, but I think I represented the results correctly. Let me know if I didn't @Owlbebach .
 
There is consensus that the following pantheons need changes:
  1. Earth Mother - Buff
  2. God of the Open Sky - Buff
  3. Festivals - Buff
  4. God of the Expanse - Tweak
  5. Springtime - Change - Nerf
I really think open sky is fine. However, earth mother and festivals are both crap currently
 
There's still that thing about GPTI being weaker than most specialists. I can understand not working on a quarry, but not working on a Manufactory seems odd.

Dunno, maybe making GPTI scale the same, more or less, than specialists could do. It's quite an investment. Actually, they work better outside of capital, where specialists don't get as many % bonuses.
 
Only very early on. Once horsemen and catapults become standard it's stupid easy. Goes from impossible to overflowing yield buckets. Early tribute just ain't an option.

That’s what I mean by unsatisfying. If it is too easy it isn’t fun.

G
 
That’s what I mean by unsatisfying. If it is too easy it isn’t fun.

G
In that case I'd recommend closing the distance! Early on I should expect 8 spearmen on a CSs borders to get tribute, yet 10 won't even approach light tribute. Later I'll be busy warring with a civ halfway across the continent and suddenly 3 CSs are terrified enough to offer heavy tribute while I can't even afford to send anything their way.
 
Only very early on. Once horsemen and catapults become standard it's stupid easy. Goes from impossible to overflowing yield buckets. Early tribute just ain't an option.
IMO this is because CS aren't growing as good as they are supposed to. At certain point of the game (t200+ or so), you can just ROLFstomp every CS (and AI does that to your allied CS on other side of the world). When everyone has cruisers and infrantry, they are like 'hi, I'm Milan, I have 14 :c5citizen: and couple of musketmen...' And this happens in every game I get to atomic.
 
IMO this is because CS aren't growing as good as they are supposed to. At certain point of the game (t200+ or so), you can just ROLFstomp every CS (and AI does that to your allied CS on other side of the world). When everyone has cruisers and infrantry, they are like 'hi, I'm Milan, I have 14 :c5citizen: and couple of musketmen...' And this happens in every game I get to atomic.
I agree. Aside from the few tweaks and balances which are still being worked out by Gazebo and all the awesome members here, IMO the only thing that I'd say is lacking for sure is some things in CS functionality. I'll re-post this from a thread I made about two weeks ago touching on another issue with CS...

"I love everything about this project, but I'm wondering if the CS aggressiveness could be tweaked a bit. Or maybe even a new feature where you could gift a newly acquired enemy city to an allied CS in range (though that idea is a long shot to implement I realize).

I have so many instances where I'm at war and I leave an enemy city on the brink of destruction because I don't want to puppet any more cities and I don't want to raze, but I still want to punish the enemy. The majority of the time one of my nearby (sometimes even adjacent) allied CS just sit there and refuse to take the city, even with available melee units and a wide open path. I understand that CS have different personality traits, but I've watched this happen time and time again even with hostile militaristic CS."
 
I agree. Aside from the few tweaks and balances which are still being worked out by Gazebo and all the awesome members here, IMO the only thing that I'd say is lacking for sure is some things in CS functionality. I'll re-post this from a thread I made about two weeks ago touching on another issue with CS...

"I love everything about this project, but I'm wondering if the CS aggressiveness could be tweaked a bit. Or maybe even a new feature where you could gift a newly acquired enemy city to an allied CS in range (though that idea is a long shot to implement I realize).

I have so many instances where I'm at war and I leave an enemy city on the brink of destruction because I don't want to puppet any more cities and I don't want to raze, but I still want to punish the enemy. The majority of the time one of my nearby (sometimes even adjacent) allied CS just sit there and refuse to take the city, even with available melee units and a wide open path. I understand that CS have different personality traits, but I've watched this happen time and time again even with hostile militaristic CS."

CSs are not supposed to build empires. They'll capture a city or two sometimes, but they're city-states for a reason.

G
 
CSs are not supposed to build empires. They'll capture a city or two sometimes, but they're city-states for a reason.

G

I do everything I can to let my city-state allies capture enemy cities; and when they do I whisper "Yes, my child, grow and together we will conquer the world!" :yup:
 
CSs are not supposed to build empires. They'll capture a city or two sometimes, but they're city-states for a reason.

G
I get it, but that sometimes is often not enough, especially when it comes down to a situation where logically it makes sense for an adjacent allied militaristic CS bordering one of my enemies to walk in and take the essentially free land+yields I give them. Instead I often find turns wasted waiting for the CS to annex (just want some consistency), only to have them never even advance and resulting in me just reloading the save and razing. This I guess is also an issue I have with other AI over-settling in every nook and cranny they can, which is certainly annoying and the reason most of my initiated wars begin in the first place...

Trust me I'm not hating, In fact I love everything about VP and this is honestly my only gripe. I understand if you don't want to tinker (although I still think the ability to gift a CS with an adjacent city would be a sweet yet most likely unobtainable feature), but maybe you can bump the aggressiveness a tiny bit and we can test in the new version to see if it's too much?

I do agree though with above poster about CS armies not necessarily scaling well enough and keeping up (I play standard speed). I know they won't be able to compete with the sheer number of units that human and AI can create, but I've found they do lack in unit strength over the course of almost every game. Even the CS that are well protected and thriving seem slow to produce units which become obsolete units by the time they're pumped out.
 
I've initially planned that city-state receive events(their own not ours), but city-states don't get their events. So.. :(

Nevertheless, I've implemented a soft one-time "Reinforcement" mechanic in World Congress Reformation where city-states receive a bunch of units when their city strikes below 25% HP. It repairs back up to 75% and pumps out 6 units adjacent to the city or in its city-state territory(Added to slow AIs from conquering them and setting mass Sphere of Influences)
 
I've initially planned that city-state receive events(their own not ours), but city-states don't get their events. So.. :(

Nevertheless, I've implemented a soft one-time "Reinforcement" mechanic in World Congress Reformation where city-states receive a bunch of units when their city strikes below 25% HP. It repairs back up to 75% and pumps out 6 units adjacent to the city or in its city-state territory(Added to slow AIs from conquering them and setting mass Sphere of Influences)
Is this actually a problem that needs fixing? I've never seen AIs go on a city-state conquering rampage. That mechanic sounds like it would be more annoying than helpful.
 
I get it, but that sometimes is often not enough, especially when it comes down to a situation where logically it makes sense for an adjacent allied militaristic CS bordering one of my enemies to walk in and take the essentially free land+yields I give them. Instead I often find turns wasted waiting for the CS to annex (just want some consistency), only to have them never even advance and resulting in me just reloading the save and razing. This I guess is also an issue I have with other AI over-settling in every nook and cranny they can, which is certainly annoying and the reason most of my initiated wars begin in the first place...

Trust me I'm not hating, In fact I love everything about VP and this is honestly my only gripe. I understand if you don't want to tinker (although I still think the ability to gift a CS with an adjacent city would be a sweet yet most likely unobtainable feature), but maybe you can bump the aggressiveness a tiny bit and we can test in the new version to see if it's too much?

I do agree though with above poster about CS armies not necessarily scaling well enough and keeping up (I play standard speed). I know they won't be able to compete with the sheer number of units that human and AI can create, but I've found they do lack in unit strength over the course of almost every game. Even the CS that are well protected and thriving seem slow to produce units which become obsolete units by the time they're pumped out.

CSs don't play to win. They're pawns.

G
 
CSs don't play to win. They're pawns.

G
Fair enough. It's just frustrating that my pawns cannot be coerced to annex in certain situations, but such is the nature of video games. I concede. Keep up the good work Gazebo. Do you have any guesses as to when we could see an update after the new year?
 
Fair enough. It's just frustrating that my pawns cannot be coerced to annex in certain situations, but such is the nature of video games. I concede. Keep up the good work Gazebo. Do you have any guesses as to when we could see an update after the new year?
The man works in weekly cycles. Give him something to bite on monday, you'll have a working new release on saturday. Only that currently he's on holidays, so we can play a little more with the same release.
 
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