New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[kkmo]

Spoiler :

* Undead (+combat, -tech): The Undead, like the Orcs, have a reputation of not being sociable. This would be incorrect. The Undead are actually an ancient race, originating from the afterlife of carcasses found of all types of races, but mostly Humans and Elves. These spirits inhabit dead bodies and create from them a strange race that is mostly bone, but with a massive soul. Because of the Undead's far from fragile body, they have become experienced fighters, gaining an advantage in combat. The Undead are usually extremely powerful. However, this is countered by their limited ability to create new inventions. The Undead are not very concerned with technology as their soul is the basis of their existence, not their brain or even their hands, unless it comes to fighting or devouring others for their cause.

Spoiler :

* Orcs (+combat, -magic): The Orcs of Sekai are a savage race. Even though they are savage and excellent fighters, they can still be extremely intelligent and have been able to form coherent communities over time. It is said that Orcs formed from corrupted spirits attempting to inhabit human souls, mutating the standard figure and causing it to grow sharp teeth and claws and create animal-like instincts. Orcs are deadly, but do not underestimate their ability to hold conversation... if you are talking to the right ones.

Spoiler :

* Humans (+combat, -econ): Humans are interesting creatures. They re-produce frequently and they have a strong concept of ethics and morals, causing them to be fierce fighters when a cause is involved, or when the safety of their nation is at stake. Because of their quick reproduction, their kingdoms are often plagued with poor and unemployed people living alongside wealthier citizens, causing humans to have economic problems. Human history is ancient. They were evolved from primates and their original form was in a race of primitive, nomadic peoples. Gradually they settled and began to establish sedentary communities.

This is all subject to change, of course. I am still toying with ideas.

 

[Disenfrancised]

The problem with an 'undead nation' is that as they are inherently outside the general mechanics of living societies and it would be hard to fit them in as a nation outside a 'rah evil horde' mode - what use has a zombie for money, or a liche for politics? You would have states formed from other races that dabble in undeath - like a human society with a vampire aristocracy, or orcs with a tradition of raising zombie footsoldiers, but undeath as the base of a long term society just wouldn't work...

Edit: you have a different definition of undeath I see, though my point still stands - why would the entities you describe want to form a society?

 

[kkmo]

You guys are thinking of undead too traditionally. There are hundreds of different versions of the Undead in countless fantasy universes. Not all of them pin them out to be idiots that are roaming around. My undead are actual spirits that have inhabited bodies, they are intelligent and can indeed run nations. Besides, we are creating our own world here. If that many people do not want the undead as a nation option, I will take it out.

EDIT: I would also consider having the undead be a sub-species of sorts, that you can research into as a field and it would give you certain spells and such.

 

[das]

Running nations is not solely a matter of ability; it is also a matter of necessity. If they're so bloody powerful and ancient, why would they need to form actual nations when they can lord over the lesser races instead?

 

[Luckymoose]

Running nations is not solely a matter of ability; it is also a matter of necessity. If they're so bloody powerful and ancient, why would they need to form actual nations when they can lord over the lesser races instead?

Is that not a nation? Ruling over subjects either as slaves or free people?

 

[Symphony D.]

No, that's a state. There's a large difference--a rather unavoidable one, in this instance.

 

[kkmo]

"Nations" in my idea are basically kingdoms, they are realms composed of towns and cities, no different than a "state" (unless you are a Human kingdom, with both a king and parliament or something).

All races are ancient, not just the Undead. All races were all created from an eternal standard figure, and mutated this figure to serve their own needs (spirits entering the body). Why are ancient races apart from forming kingdoms? They can form kingdoms. The Undead are, at their base, citizens of boney ghouls with spirits inside of them - zombies are their stupid counterparts, the things they raise from the ground to do their dirty work and be slaves for them, and maybe grunt soldiers. The brains behind the undead are skeleton liches, powerful warriors and sorcerers... have any of you played Warcraft 3 before? The undead have people that build structures, they have societies that citizens, mostly made of bones or tattered skin, live in, and they can even have an economy of sorts, though of course their economy suffers a bit because I am thinking in this game, the Undead can only build kingdoms in swamps or places where large battles took place in the past that are marked on the map (extra zombie slaves from the ground...). They can be civilized, though - but still, keep in mind Orcs, Goblins, Undead, and Dark Elves will all be under "chaos", and the others under "order", which won't mean much (they can side with one another at times, and plus some races in order don't like each other, like Dwarves and Elves), but it will mean some of what we are getting at when we talk of "society".

Societies in "order" are organized, with clear rulers and such... Orcish society is a bit more open-ended, with encampments, but still clear territory that they occupy. Same goes for Undead. But there can be huge Undead citadels (cities). All of this stuff is not only straight from Warcraft 3, but also Lord of the Rings cites some intelligence in the Undead, though that version is a bit more tormented.

Anyway, I am really glad this is sparking so much conversation. I should start a new thread for it, and post the guidelines I have so far and maybe a map. The way races actually operate, in this case, is all fluff and up to the story-teller, and will not be decided by rules, but yes the Undead do require an economy... what this economy is composed of, though, is up to us, and for all we know it could be composed of how many zombies they found in the ground every game month or something.

 

[Disenfrancised]

ancient races apart from forming kingdoms? They can form kingdoms. The Undead are, at their base, citizens of boney ghouls with spirits inside of them - zombies are their stupid counterparts, the things they raise from the ground to do their dirty work and be slaves for them, and maybe grunt soldiers. The brains behind the undead are skeleton liches, powerful warriors and sorcerers... have any of you played Warcraft 3 before? The undead have people that build structures, they have societies that citizens, mostly made of bones or tattered skin, live in, and they can even have an economy of sorts, though of course their economy suffers a bit because I am thinking in this game, the Undead can only build kingdoms in swamps or places where large battles took place in the past that are marked on the map (extra zombie slaves from the ground...).

Yes they can do these things but they don't have the need - humans (and humans in funny suits that most fantasy races entail) want to be protected from harm, have their basic needs met, and generally pass on some sort of cultural/genetic legacy to the next generation. They thus initially and inherently form and join societies to advance those ends which eventually develop into states (sometimes picking up additional motivational baggage along the way), and develop economies based on the production and consumption of goods.

Why would a spirit inhabiting a corpse bother with such things? Its needs and goals are inherently different and parasitic and thus will be a predator/parasite/mutualist with a living society rather than forming societies and states of its own.

The warcraft 3 undead were not a stable society or state, they were a weapon of another slightly less parasitic culture. If the undead had won, what would they have done then? cackle amid the ashes? No, they would just have stopped, task acomplished.

 

[kkmo]

I think we are thinking in the same way and getting confused by terminology of what a "nation" or "state" entails. The Undead require bodies, resources for their weaponry, advancement in their magic, and so on. They have needs, but their needs are different than humans. The Undead require goods, and they can produce goods as well, if other races/nations are looking for passage into that realm of magic, they can produce spells, for instance. There are two types of Undead in our line of thought. There are the parasitic undead, just spirits that float around and inhabit any already-deceased corpse. Then there are intelligent undead, spirits that actually form from their new bodies a structured band of various types of citizens or undead creatures, in turn forming some sort of structured command. A Lich King, for example, and then his underlings of skeletons or whatever else. No one said that the Undead nations in this game would be stable, or that they would be like a human nation. They would still exist, though, as inhabiting certain territories, and traveling/existing in groups of larger than just solo or small bands of creatures. They would have a "scourge" as it were, an entire basis for their operations under control of one overlord (the player of an Undead "nation"). To this effect, their Tech rating would have advancements that do not say, "Advanced Axes", as it would maybe for humans or dwarves, but it would say, "Stronger Bones" or "Armored Skin" or something. Their Magic ratings would feed into advancements of how fast they can raise armies, combat-type spells, and other such advancements (though truth be told, their entire being could be considered "magic", so its about interpreting categories different for this race of creatures, as one would do with any of the races).

And if we think beyond the black and white of "this is what a state is" or "this is what economy is", we can begin interpreting things differently for the races. I was thinking more for the Undead, to sustain it as a playable race, "Economy" is essentially, "how many slaves you own to build your structures", thus advancing the cause of spreading the undead or sustaining it, and your "state" is a kingdom with an overlord that controls everything (a dictatorship, basically, but literally, this one overlord controls *everything*, though players can be flexible... maybe three Necromancers, actual Human death mages, rule over a nation of the Undead).

And of course, this still does not rule out the concept that the Undead's spells will be available to players, so that if they have a Human hero and they want this hero to become a necromancer, this is possible - at which point the Undead also becomes purely a Combat statistic for that Human or otherwise nation.

 

[Ninja Dude]

My question is about the orcs. Are they like Warhammer orcs that are insanely strong and outnumber pretty much everything? Or are they like Lord of the Rings orcs that have incredible numbers, but are generally weak and cowardly?

And why would half-elves have a nation? Was there a Numenor-like situation? Or are they considered outcasts by elves and men?

 

[kkmo]

My question is about the orcs. Are they like Warhammer orcs that are insanely strong and outnumber pretty much everything? Or are they like Lord of the Rings orcs that have incredible numbers, but are generally weak and cowardly?

And why would half-elves have a nation? Was there a Numenor-like situation? Or are they considered outcasts by elves and men?

I'm glad you asked. Here is what I have written so far about the Half-Elves (only a blurb):

Spoiler :

* Half-Elves (+nothing, -nothing): Half-elves were, for a long time, ridiculed in both Human and Elven society. Eventually they came to be respected members of the universe, founding their own half-elf specific nations. The magical element of an Elven body mixed with the very earthen element of a Human body created something special. Bred again and again obviously the half-elf loses bits of its origins, which has made the half-elf society into something unique.

So what happened is, ridiculed by both Human and Elf, there eventually was a mass exodus, meaning they left and founded their own nations.

As for the Orcs, the Orcs are very strong and fierce and such, they get a +1 to combat. I was thinking more that they are sort of a nomadic types of peoples, semi-sedentary, but still form encampments in certain territories and even establish towns when there are resources nearby that they need, like food.

 

[Abaddon]

Hi there.
<snip>
Anyone interested at all?

Welcome!

Yes, I am interested, and be ready for this idea to be picked and analyzed in ways you didnt think possible. Please don't take offence with this, we jsut like to all get at least our 2 cents worth. The bigger "hits" the more your idea has raised interest.

I would suggest posting your own thread, and allowing the discussion to go there so it begins to draw in potential players who may not look in this development thread.

 

[Ninja Dude]

What about goblins? What are they going to be like?

A map would help at this point so you could put the races into place. I'm not too keen on having you start out as one town. Maybe a small kingdom, but a town seems a little bit too small. But I guess city-states could work out. But orcs would probably need like a general area to inhabit or something since a permanent orc town is kind of hard to imagine with the description you gave them.

Sorry if I'm asking alot of questions. After playing a few NESs I'm most likely going to start a fantasy NES. So when I heard about this I got interested very quickly.

 

[kkmo]

No offense taken at all, I like open discussion.

I will start a new thread and post what I have so far. Before I post anything, though, I want to know how complex you guys usually play your stories out? The rules I made so far are not too complex, but they are also not entirely simplistic either.

Also, if anyone else wants to throw in ideas as people have been, please do. I just want one of these to exist, as I think it would be fun.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

This sounds like a very intersting idea. I think that I would like to join!

 

[Terrance888]

Can a City State become a Kingdom?

Can a Kingdom become a 'Empire'?

Can Du Farthen az Kurlan be in your NES?

 

[das]

I believe he already said yes.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Well, I doubt I'll actually start an NES like this because of inexperiance and all of that, but I had an idea. What if there was an NES where you played barbarians instead of nations? You could try to bring down the civilized world, or you could just be some peaceful people getting invaded by a power-hungry empire.

I don't know exactly how well that could work, but it was just an idea I had that I felt like sharing.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

I agree with it as an idea- perhaps you should start thinking up some rules for it? Even if you don't make it, a mod could use it as an addon to existing rules.

 

[Ninja Dude]

I agree with it as an idea- perhaps you should start thinking up some rules for it? Even if you don't make it, a mod could use it as an addon to existing rules.

I might make some rules, however, I'm making the rules and map for an NES I plan on making in the future. However, it will be a while from now. So once I'm done with the set up with my primary NES I'll use my spare time thinking up rules for this Barbarian NES. However, I'd be glad to let a more experianced person use my idea and develop it.