New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Gelion]

I actually mean stats that get calculated automatically, such as for example budget (revenues minus expenses) or population growth based on a formula.

 

[Symphony D.]

social power (not sure about wording here. Freedom or security might be more appropriate; basically, this is the difference between the traditional aristocracy or clergy and the meritocratic political elite promoted from amongst commoners and petty nobles)

Social Power is generally reckoned as "the ability to get what you want even when other people say otherwise," so I'd say it's appropriate.

 

[Abaddon]

"Influence" ?

 

[North King]

Just some random brainstorming...

One thing that I definitely will be using heavily in the Iron Age project would be Maintenance. Bureaucracy, infrastructure, military, state structures (palaces and fortresses) - all those things will require money, and will fall into decay if denied funding due to more pressing concerns.

Good plan, but you might want to consolidate this into fewer stats simply to save space. Lengthy stats grow unreadable.

With regards to the military update system, I'm afraid that the various problems with it seem a bit too major, and there are other aspects of the (steadily-developing) ruleset that might require much fine-tuning early on. So I'm presently leaning towards the system Fulton uses for his NES right now (which is rather like NK's idea here, but also with occasional "flashpoints"), with the Focus Point system somehow worked in.

How so, exactly?

All social groups will be rated by political power, social power (not sure about wording here. Freedom or security might be more appropriate; basically, this is the difference between the traditional aristocracy or clergy and the meritocratic political elite promoted from amongst commoners and petty nobles), economic wealth (these three are separated on purpose, seeing as I want to incorporate social tensions into this, and said tensions always arise from situations where these three are not proportional for any given group) and loyalty to the present government. I'm not sure, but a rough measure of quantity for the elites might be useful as well. All those will be rated by a very simplistic system of relative levels.

For "social power" das seems to be talking about the stigma that's attached to upjumped commoners, if I'm reading him right. In that case, Social Status may be better.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I actually mean stats that get calculated automatically, such as for example budget (revenues minus expenses) or population growth based on a formula.

I have worked out a pretty complicated Excel system for managing stats and automating many functions. It includes domestic and trade economies, tax rates, tax efficiency, corruption, upkeep, confidence, etc. plus all the regular stats, and a whole series of ways to modify the system as you play the game without rewriting the spreadsheet.

 

[Abaddon]

Wish i'd done that for my NES.. at some point I will sit down and try to do it.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Wish i'd done that for my NES.. at some point I will sit down and try to do it.

When my current game ends, I will post my spreadsheet.

 

[Cannae]

When my current game ends, I will post my spreadsheet.

When will that be?

 

[Abaddon]

Hopefully 2010?

 

[Abaddon]

An anyway, I'd need to seriously crop it considering I use considering less stats.. it just want a more integrated approach.. it makes sence for spending in one area to have knock on effects in lots of other places, and I love you BjNES does that

 

[Cannae]

Hopefully 2010?

That's what I hope. I have to admit that this NES has been among the most motivating, and has kept me interested much longer than any other.

 

[Abaddon]

erm, its 2 updates in.. only a few weeks/months? old...think you need more luck with NES!

 

[Birdjaguar]

When will that be?

No plans for that now. We've just begun.

An anyway, I'd need to seriously crop it considering I use considering less stats.. it just want a more integrated approach.. it makes sence for spending in one area to have knock on effects in lots of other places, and I love you BjNES does that

I tried to start with the stat list that would be posted and work backward. Here is how I have constructed my population stat. I wanted to have a population number that would calculate automatically as the game progressed and would track the same for every nation and I would not have to "guess" based on map size. Seven variables go into the population stat:

A base number (starting population level)
Area (pixels count from the map)
Land base (0, 1, 2, 3 depending upon the nature of the starting terrain)
Investments in Agriculture
Investments in aquaculture
Infrastructure (separate form roads)
Population divisor (2-6, used to calculate final score, lower numbers increase population)

The first six numbers are combined in a formula and divided by the pop divisor to get the posted score. This approach combines 4 player inputs (area, ag and aqua scores and infrastructure) plus three mod inputs to drive the population result. Player policies can affect the land base and divisor. for example, I might raise a players land base from 1 to 1.5 if new territory encompasses some rich farmland rather than his steppe homeland. Or I could lower the population divisor by .25 to increase in the rate of population growth. If a nation had a sudden influx of people or captured a well populated nation, then I could increase the base number to reflect that sudden and one time change.

The population stat only changes if one of these numbers changes. Since I update the area every turn that number changes frequently. Now since the pixel counts are currently running 500 to 2000 for nations, that number is way too large to add into my formula. So I divide the pixel count by 1000 to get the input for the population formula. If I find that after 20 updates that I'm getting population numbers that are too large for convenience, i can raise the area divisor from 1000 to say, 1500 and reduce the scores back to a range I like.

Most of the stats in BirdNES are calculated in a similar manner. A lot can be done with Excel if you think things through. I cannot image running a NES without it.

 

[Symphony D.]

I have some thoughts on this Sym, but they will have to wait until after I finish updating.

Tsk.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Tsk.

I've not forgotten your post. I've been watching a movie this evening: "Once", and foregoing posting.

 

[Gelion]

When my current game ends, I will post my spreadsheet.

That would be very helpful

 

[das]

"Influence" ?

That's what I thought, at first, but it's more than being merely "influential".

Good plan, but you might want to consolidate this into fewer stats simply to save space. Lengthy stats grow unreadable.

Well, yes. I've already come up with fairly lengthy stats, and the present phase of my brainstorming mostly revolves around cutting the redundant things out.

That said, I'm pondering as to whether or not I should divide the Income and Maintenance stats into sub-sections, to show how much profit comes from and goes to what exactly. It would be very helpful both for myself and for the players, but has the potential of getting very cluttered.

How so, exactly?

After the initial deadline passes, various major events (invasions, famines, rebellions) will occur: the National Events will be PMed to players, the Global (a misnomer in almost all imaginable cases at this point of time, but basically it's taken to mean international) will be posted in the thread, and the players get to make a quick response. They will, ofcourse, need to use Focus Points to respond effectively, possibly canceling some of their initial orders if they had previously focused all their efforts on other matters. Basically, it's as Symphony had described, though I suppose there might be some very basic decisions that won't require focus points in and of themselves (such as evacuating the royal family or just ordering the troops already in the area to quell an uprising).

For "social power" das seems to be talking about the stigma that's attached to upjumped commoners, if I'm reading him right. In that case, Social Status may be better.

That and also various political elites from outside a given society. It's a staple of all sufficiently developed monarchies. Yes, Social Status seems appropriate.

Oh, and needless to say, the ratings will be relative to those of other social groups, making it difficult to aggrandise one without antagonising each other. Furthermore, there will be all kinds of other choices to make. Ruling through and with the traditional aristocracy is safe and a sure way to ensure stability - as well as stagnation, not to mention that it will always limit the options of a government quite strongly. On the other hand, antagonising it by fostering a new elite dependent mainly on the government rather than the community will likely lead to uprisings and conspiracies, and general instability, and the effort it would take to truly break their power might be enough to cripple an empire, at least temporarily. And, ofcourse, the new elite is likely to eventually merge with the old, in which case the cycle might have to begin again. Likewise, trade and taxation policies will now have to take the urban and rural commoners alike into account. Various cults will be integrated, though I am not sure how exactly, and they will be tied to various social groups as well, leading to the genuine significance of religious policy (speaking of which, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to handle China when the time comes to add it, culture-wise; though I suppose that a general world religion model could be extended to them, at any rate that would be more plausible than fitting them into the earlier cult model as seen in ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia and such).

 

[Cannae]

I am sadly not going to make this into an actual Nes, and it’s a basic refinement of what I proposed earlier in these forums. If someone who doesn’t have a good nes idea, as of yet, will be allowed to take this idea, as long as they give me credit for the base idea.

You have woken up, on a planet that seems to be very different in nature. What you don’t know, is that you, along with your comrades have been dropped off here, because you were a political prisoner, who was conceived to be a threat to the major galactic empire. He chose this planet because he knew that life would soon run out, and it only had the last five percent to remain. However, this planet was ironically was orgins and birthplace of the galactic empire, and its people came from decedents came from. Earth, 500 million year in the future that is.

You have come back to a planet that is alien, and bizarre in comparison to our own. The environment is very unstable, with the climate shifting, from extreme cold, to blistering heat. The moon’s stability is provided no more, and the earth is prone to major wobbles, and the days are much longer, which exposes the surface to extreme heat, or cold for very long periods of time. In addition, the land is and will become even more so, sparse and devoid of much plant life. In addition the animals that do live on this planet are usually
small, burrowing or deep ocean dwelling animals. This would comprise mostly of worms, cockroaches, rats, squids, limited fish and the very rare crocodilian like creature. Farming will be much harder, if not impossible, you are provided with small goat like animals, in which are able to eat the limited plant and lichen life that live here. Due to these factors, this is the very reason why lord Jagannatha, has chosen this place to be where the prison planet shall be.

The overall goal of this Nes is to do one thing and one thing only, by any means possible. Get the hell off the planet ASAP! This is also a fresh start in which, you are to develop everything you once knew, to use to get off this planet. You also may join up as teams so that the process is faster. It’s recommended that you have as few people as possible, and have maximum resource efficiency in both gathering and use. You also need to be aware that climate is NOT static and will change. So be prepared if your once humid and habitable oasis, will turn into a searing desert or a frozen tundra. Due to the fragileness of the land, you don’t have cities; instead you have camps as a replacement. Good luck escaping!

 

[Symphony D.]

I've not forgotten your post. I've been watching a movie this evening: "Once", and foregoing posting.

Been watching a movie for three days now, eh?

You have come back to a planet that is alien, and bizarre in comparison to our own. The environment is very unstable, with the climate shifting, from extreme cold, to blistering heat. The moon’s stability is provided no more, and the earth is prone to major wobbles, and the days are much longer, which exposes the surface to extreme heat, or cold for very long periods of time.

Does not compute.

The Moon will become tidally locked in two billion years time; until then it will continue to produce tidal effects on Earth, and even beyond then it will continue to anchor the planet. Lunar recession also only lengthens Earth's day by four hours every billion years. The process is slow enough for biological organisms to easily adapt to the changes. The only mechanism which can severely alter Earth's habitability beyond deliberate or accidental sentient interference is the increase in luminosity of the Sun (and that can potentially be compensated for by natural processes) and possibly decline in tectonic activity and desertification, which can also be potentially countered by other processes.

This scenario also continues to go out of its way to keep from explaining how humanity has remained even remotely similar to its present form for 500 million years, but as that has little to do with hard physical facts, it's on the outside realm of possibility and can be tolerated.

 

[Cannae]

This scenario also continues to go out of its way to keep from explaining how humanity has remained even remotely similar to its present form for 500 million years, but as that has little to do with hard physical facts, it's on the outside realm of possibility and can be tolerated.

When I am talking about humans, they are nothing like the ones that we see today. I am mostly referring to how these various peoples which may be entirely different species by that time but all had one species of ancestors which are present day humans.

The Moon will become tidally locked in two billion years time; until then it will continue to produce tidal effects on Earth, and even beyond then it will continue to anchor the planet. Lunar recession also only lengthens Earth's day by four hours every billion years. The process is slow enough for biological organisms to easily adapt to the changes. The only mechanism which can severely alter Earth's habitability beyond deliberate or accidental sentient interference is the increase in luminosity of the Sun (and that can potentially be compensated for by natural processes) and possibly decline in tectonic activity and desertification, which can also be potentially countered by other processes.

While I am not sure about the moon part I do know that according to the research I have done today, the planet is supposed to really get nasty after 500 million years.