New Papal States

[Barratt_87]

I have an idea that could really spice up the game for version 2.0 and it involves that useless excuse for a pope. He doesnt do anything besides give money and build churches and that is not enough.. The real pope was involved in European politics very much and he didn't just sit back and watch as everyone around

A way to make the papal states more involved would be to have an apostolic palace vote which would represent the election of new popes. The winner would basically have the pope in his pocket (huge diplomacy bonus and be able to ask for the same things as the regular apostolic palace such as declare war, make peace, stop trading and sign open borders. Also, you could ask for help in any war and a vote would go out to send you troops in the same fashion as a defensive crusade.

In addition a new type of diplomacy would excommunication.The excommunicated would have a major religious diplomacy penalty with the pope and be excluded from apostolic palace votes and would often be the target of "bad" voting options. The excommunicated would then have to pay (in gold or resources per turn for 10 turns) or fight against the pope (which would require a pope who can actually declare war and peace) and other catholic civs to be recommunicated but if you capture Rome instead of the civ keeping it the pope keeps it but diplomacy is reset and they will be top candidate for the next pope.

The Historical basis of this is that your civs arch bishop is being elected as pope. Orthodox can vote before the great schism but cannot be elected and protestant cannot vote or be elected. With a pope that can declare war there has to be restrictions so he stays defensive but with a decent army and he cannot be declared war upon and doesn't fight non-catholics

Now the problem is, I would have no idea how to actually do any of this and with a completed product as it is new features are out the window but this really would make a more interesting and involving game. The pope as he is now is just wasted space.

 

[DC123456789]

Great idea! They might implement it in RFCE 2.0...

 

[Michael Vick]

I support this whole heartedly. The more unique mechanics, the more a mod is set apart in my opinion. Given that this mod is based on medieval Europe, the religion mechanics of the mod have a lot of room to grow. I think that the pope should also ask things of the player, more than just units for crusades, as an extra reason to switch to Protestantism. Let's remember this idea when we've got our map and civs for 2.0 decided.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Great. This will finally provide some reasons to NOT switch to Protestantism (apart from being Spain).

 

[ezzlar]

I like the voting idea but wars with the pope seem too much.

 

[The Flame8]

In my opinion the pope does need to have a bigger impact, but wars with catholics no. I think he should be at war with all muslims though...

 

[urban]

Why no wars with the pope? The Empire was at war with him a bunch.

 

[Barratt_87]

The idea between the Pope fighting other catholic civs is that invading Rome and threatening the vatican would make the pope see things your way... My idea is that most of the fighting is done between the "heretics" and other catholics though not everyone should declare war on the heretic and if they refuse to declare war they get a diplomacy hit with the pope and other catholics who did declare war the same way refusing to go to war with a civ regularly does

Also, the authority of the HRE and the pope SHOULD clash.. If the pope asks for something the emperor should be able to overturn the decisions of the other members at a fairly large diplomacy hit with the pope.

Excommunication should be a very extreme measure and I'm not sure how best to handle how to piss the pope off that much..

 

[Tigranes]

I was asking 3Miro to allow for playable Papal States with espionage only UHV-s -- that could allow very unusual game experience for players. Unfortunately nothing came out of it...

 

[The Wimp]

The Germans, Spanish and French all sacked and occupied Rome. I think this is a great idea and is historically accurate.

 

[Michael Vick]

The Germans, Spanish and French all sacked and occupied Rome. I think this is a great idea and is historically accurate.

But it would really suck if the Papal States became part of another civ. There should be a mechanic where Catholic civs get a large amount of money for capturing Rome as well as bad relations with the Pope and other civs, but the city is immediately returned to the Pope after.

 

[yogiebere]

Originally we had grand schemes of having the "Holy Roman Emperor" or someone who has high faith points and has power over other catholics. Also other benefits besides churches (small gold and culture bonus?). Also we planned on Germany being more HRE related.

But I think all of these kinda fell through, mostly because they would make a more rigid play. But for RFCE 2.0, go for it!!

 

[ezzlar]

Sometimes you have to think about game play mechanics and intelligence of the AI.

 

[The Flame8]

Sometimes you have to think about game play mechanics and intelligence of the AI.

Which the AI usually have very little of

 

[Spirictum]

I support the idea of creating a playable Pope for lots of reasons, but they are all minor compared to one that was always my dream on this mod since its earliest versions: The re-creation of the Roman Empire by the Byzantines.

If a playable Pope that can be captured by the Byzantine Empire (even if not the whole time, but when some pre-reqs are met) could exist, I think i would forget any other mod or the original BTS for a long time.


I cannot forget my Beta 13 Domination victory as the Byzantines on Monarch, but I got really frustrated as Rome wasn't mine (Most North Africa + All Italy + Marseille + Catalonia + Mid East + Anatolia + everything below Austria + some parts of Ukraine and Russia + all mediterranean isles except for the Balears). I even imagined that if I captured Florence early I could give it lots and lots of culture points to see if I could make Rome flip to me. It never happened. I guess the game protects it this way as well.

And congratulations to the city naming team, the Byzantines had names for almost all cities I got, the only ones that hadn't were in the north of Hungary, Russia, Ukraine (except for Crimea), Marseilles and Barcelona.

 

[Michael Vick]

And congratulations to the city naming team, the Byzantines had names for almost all cities I got, the only ones that hadn't were in the north of Hungary, Russia, Ukraine (except for Crimea), Marseilles and Barcelona.

What map was that with? Is this referring to the game in the screenshot? The newest Byzantine map has names in all of those places except for Russia.

 

[Spirictum]

What map was that with? Is this referring to the game in the screenshot? The newest Byzantine map has names in all of those places except for Russia.

Yes, it's the Map attached, the one from Beta 13. Nice to know that it was improved even more.

 

[Michael Vick]

Yes, it's the Map attached, the one from Beta 13. Nice to know that it was improved even more.

There is an entirely redone Iberia and North Africa with new, synchronized city name maps. Byzantium has city names for almost all of the territory of the Roman Empire and all major cities.

 

[constantinople]

Rather than have Rome captured, the Papal states should be vassalized by the conqueror and be his pawn (unless said conqueror is not Catholic [or Orthodox before the Schism]) and Rome can declare its own independence eventually.

 

[Spirictum]

If eventually the Papal States could be captured or vassalized and this becomes the Byzantine UHV3 (Conquer Rome by 1476AD - or vassalise it if the mechanics only allow that), I would feel the Byzantine game surely the most enjoyable of all by far. Or maybe control Apulia, Latium and Tuscany at 1476AD, or even the whole of Italy (Apulia, Latium, Tuscany, Lombardy, Verona, Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica). That would make it the hardest civ in this game (for UHV of course) as it deserves.

UHV3: Reclaiming the Roman Empire
Control Apulia, Corsica, Latium, Lombardy, Sardinia, Sicily, Tuscany and Verona by 1476AD

I hope this dream comes true