New Version - November 6th (11-6)

[Workerspam]

So far everything seems to be working well!

I do however agree with the comments from the previous version(s?) that disliked moving the reduced religious costs and increased religious pressure to Organized religion (3rd policy in the Piety tree, after opener and first policy). If the religious game is meant to be predominantly played in the classical/medieval era, then the decrease of religious costs comes significantly too late. I'd prefer if it this change was reverted and the effect moved back either to the opener or the first policy.

One aspect I like about the change is it slows down the religious game. Front load the discounts and pressure and the first religious civ to take fealty is likely the dominant religion in the region. By delaying the religious steroid other religions have a chance to play some defense.

My strategy has been to spread prior to the discounts, buying a few key religious pressure buildings on the outskirts, then buying the rest once I unlock the discount.

 

[Gazebo]

According to Gazebo's explanation in the OP, that is correct. You get 2fa/2g in the capital with the pantheon, and in all other cities once they have a city connection.

If the capital isn't providing the benefits immediately, then the beta isn't working as described.

It is working correctly, my description just didn’t capture the joie d’vivre I’d hoped for.

G

 

[Deadstarre]

kinda makes me wonder if anyone is *not* choosing fealty.

even with the poor religion placement policy now its still better than statecraft or aesthetics *shrug* i'm fine with it as is, kinda helped to nerf the tree a little.

 

[ElliotS]

kinda makes me wonder if anyone is *not* choosing fealty.

even with the poor religion placement policy now its still better than statecraft or aesthetics *shrug* i'm fine with it as is, kinda helped to nerf the tree a little.

Yeah. There are a few questions:

1. Are strategies that generally use Fealty performing well?
2. Is Fealty the cause of 1 or secondary? (I often see people try to buff/nerf things by touching adjacent mechanics which can be good, but only when correctly implemented.)
   
3. How fun is it? (We could always revere the location of the policies and nerf the cost reduction to 10-20% range, making it similar power but feel better.)

 

[CrazyG]

I think its alright if fealty is a default choice for the second policy tree, not every trio of policies needs to be evenly split in how often you take it. Aesthetics is great for certain circumstances. I've though statecraft was awful like forever but its decent now

 

[Funak]

I think its alright if fealty is a default choice for the second policy tree, not every trio of policies needs to be evenly split in how often you take it. Aesthetics is great for certain circumstances. I've though statecraft was awful like forever but its decent now

I don't even think Aesthetics is that situational anymore, it just takes longer than fealty to come online.

 

[CrazyG]

I don't even think Aesthetics is that situational anymore, it just takes longer than fealty to come online.

The opener doesn't do very much for progress or authority, at least in the short term. Eventually the scaler is really nice but it is very slow

 

[Funak]

The opener doesn't do very much for progress or authority, at least in the short term. Eventually the scaler is really nice but it is very slow

As in 'takes longer to come online'. Until you get like 10 or so great works the tree is really weak.

 

[thecraftybee]

As in 'takes longer to come online'. Until you get like 10 or so great works the tree is really weak.

I find Artistry to be a little underpowered overall. I would prefer to see the happiness from GWs being 1 per GW, perhaps with a limit, maybe capped at 2 or 3 scaling by era. I would also like to see Cultural Exchange buffed too - the Open Border bonus is fine, but the secondary aspect will only give 18 culture and 9 hammers at most.

 

[CrazyG]

As in 'takes longer to come online'. Until you get like 10 or so great works the tree is really weak.

I've suggested the university buff coming earlier, because like you said for wide the policies available just don't do much

 

[tu_79]

Yeah. There are a few questions:

1. Are strategies that generally use Fealty performing well?
2. Is Fealty the cause of 1 or secondary? (I often see people try to buff/nerf things by touching adjacent mechanics which can be good, but only when correctly implemented.)
   
3. How fun is it? (We could always revere the location of the policies and nerf the cost reduction to 10-20% range, making it similar power but feel better.)

You got it. I understand that if something is too strong it needs a nerf, but making things untimed is not fun.
On the other hand, making a path too obvious isn't fun either.

Right now, the only policy that actively works best for a religion founder is the increased pressure, that can save some early missionaries and create a religious blob. The other two, monasteries and cheaper faith costs are good even for non founders, provided they have some faith production. Cheaper faith cost is only good for non founders if it comes after monasteries. But it is sad ( = not fun ) for a founder to not have cheaper faith cost earlier.

Current layout doesn't help. Fealty doesn't give choices until second policy. This means that any meaningful choice between founder or non founder (increased pressure) is going to be delayed to second policy at least. I feel it's ok to have the reduced faith cost to happen a little after first founders are spreading religion to their cities, as a help for late founders, but not that late that even late founders can't make use of it for spreading on their own cities.

Just a note. I'm playing maya, science heavy, culture light. Even then, I'm getting the castle policy way before I'm able to produce castles (ok, I didn't beelined castles). I don't need to build castles everywhere yet, so even with this policy coming online a little later, I still have castles to build. I wouldn't mind that it is delayed to second policy. Delayed to third might be too late.

Maybe a layout beginning like Tradition: two choices for first policy (one for founders, other for non founders), could work better.

 

[FoxOfWar]

Spirit of the Desert says it's +1 faith/production/culture in the description, but it actually gives +1 faith/production/gold it seems.

Anyway, keep up the good work G

 

[Workerspam]

Spirit of the Desert says it's +1 faith/production/culture in the description, but it actually gives +1 faith/production/gold it seems.

Anyway, keep up the good work G

I saw the same in my game.

 

[Funak]

I've suggested the university buff coming earlier, because like you said for wide the policies available just don't do much

Did I say that? Think it's mostly a case of the early policies affecting great works and you just don't have enough great works when you first unlock them to make them feel interesting. You might have a couple of writers guilds up but not really more than that.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Maybe a policy there could grant a free great work or sth like that.

I'm still seeing unescorted settlers in the (early) game, easy pickings for barbs and mischievous civs.

 

[Jarula]

Why not couple the +25% gp with a sum of culture for aesthetics?

 

[Deadstarre]

I'm still seeing unescorted settlers in the (early) game, easy pickings for barbs and mischievous civs.

unescorted settlers (tho i see escorted also and i dont always escort mine), but nearly defying all logic I've consistently seen the AI find a way to leave their great admiral open for the plucking in the midst of a massive armada. its like they had so many ships in the fleet it was almost not even possible to find an empty water tile for him, but somehow theyre finding a way to make it happen.

 

[CrazyG]

Why not couple the +25% gp with a sum of culture for aesthetics?

This was the old Aesthetics, and the issue with it is its basically the 7th tradition policy. It has a ton of synergy with a tall tradition empire and no synergy whatsoever with a large number of cities, or progress, or authority.

 

[Jarula]

This was the old Aesthetics, and the issue with it is its basically the 7th tradition policy. It has a ton of synergy with a tall tradition empire and no synergy whatsoever with a large number of cities, or progress, or authority.

Why not +1 culture for improvements and +1 culture for great works...?

 

[CrazyG]

Why not +1 culture for improvements and +1 culture for great works...?

What do you mean by improvements? Great person improvements? You can just reread my old post, it does nothing for progress or authority, but its great for tradition.