New Zealand Terror Attack

[Traitorfish]

No, it's not.

The Iron Front existed from 1931 to 1933. That's less than twenty-four months for the "anti-Nazi, anti-monarchist, anti-KPD" symbolism to have real currency. Assuming that the symbol retained currency in anti-regime circles in Germany after 1933, we can reasonably assume that the significance of the anti-Nazi dimension came to overshadow the anti-monarchy and anti-KPD symbolism. Its popularisation outside of Germany can reasonable be followed this logic.

You are circular reasoning appropriation, basically.

I don't know what this means.

 

[Hamid.H]

You're trying very hard to avoid saying outright what you've been hinting at...

im hinting at something now? please, tell me what im hinting at. could you be anymore flagrantly islamophobic? youve regurgitated every far-right trope there is at this point.

Fair game for jihad bis-sayyaf, you mean?

Who mentioned them? I'm just trying to get to what you're hinting at but not saying outright when you say liberals deserve to be thrown under a bus for not doing enough, and that the West is the "House of War," which is a fairly specific term...

Do you take it as a declaration of war by everyone in the West on every Muslim?

49 muslims were slaughtered in an blatantly islamophobic attack during a time of faith, at a time of peace, by a fascist white supremacist and youre insinuating that muslims may callously respond with violence?? im at a complete loss for words. youre aware of who the victims were during this attack right? the attacker was a white male and they just so happen to be occupying much of the middle east as well at this point.

hh

 

[Phrossack]

im hinting at something now? please, tell me what im hinting at. could you be anymore flagrantly islamophobic? youve regurgitated every far-right trope there is at this point.



49 muslims were slaughtered in an blatantly islamophobic attack during a time of faith, at a time of peace, by a fascist white supremacist and youre insinuating that muslims may callously respond with violence?? im at a complete loss for words. youre aware of who the victims were in during this attack right? the attacker was a white male and they just so happen to be occupying much of the middle east as well at this point.

hh

You must be new here if you immediately think I'm an Islamophobe, or if you think I approve of this crime against humanity!

You used a very specific term, Dar al-Harb, which does not simply mean "place where there is violence." You've said white liberals need to be "thrown under the bus" for "not doing enough," and have refused to explain what you mean by either "thrown under the bus" or what they should be doing. You are regurgitating terms that are rather less than peaceful in intent, and are carefully avoiding, ducking, weaving and wriggling to avoid openly admitting what it is you really want and mean...but you've made it clear enough. Would you like me to state it for you, or will you be honest and forthright in what you really mean?

 

[Hamid.H]

You used a very specific term, Dar al-Harb, which does not simply mean "place where there is violence." You've said white liberals need to be "thrown under the bus" for "not doing enough," and have refused to explain what you mean by either "thrown under the bus" or what they should be doing. You are regurgitating terms that are rather less than peaceful in intent, and are carefully avoiding, ducking, weaving and wriggling to avoid openly admitting what it is you really want and mean...but you've made it clear enough. Would you like me to state it for you, or will you be honest and forthright in what you really mean?

please, by all means state what it is that im thinking in my own head.

hh

 

[Phrossack]

I don't have to be a mind-reader to read between the lines.

honestly, is anyone else starting to **** their pants? i mean this stuff is becoming more and more common place. we egg an australian nazi and they kill 49. anyone else doing the math? white liberals (and i hate to throw them under the bus but someone needs to) their #resistance is nothing but a "feel good about yourself" larp.

hh

Here, you say specifically white liberals need to be "thrown under the bus" because they're not doing enough. I asked you what exactly you would have them do, but you dodged the question and said:

the western world is truly dar al-harb.

hh

You know perfectly well what that specific term means: the House of War, territories that have neither converted to Islam, nor have signed non-aggression pacts with the Dar al-Islam, and thus are fair game for war, hence the name. It does not simply mean "place where there is violence." Otherwise you'd have to put the Middle East in there, along with plenty of other non-Western, non-white areas.

daesh are sunni and are bid'ah. you really shouldnt use words when you dont understand their meaning.

hh

you wouldnt consider what just happened an act of war?

hh

Here you state the NZ massacre was an act of war. By whom upon whom? The victims are Muslims, clearly, but who declared war?

the west has been in perpetual war with everyone else for centuries.

hh

And there it is. The West. All of it is collectively to blame, apparently. Which includes all those who gathered in support of the victims of this abominable crime perpetrated by Islamophobic extremists, but hey, we white liberals who support Muslim right to life and freedom of religion and from harassment are all identical to the attackers, apparently. And no matter what we do or think, we're apparently your enemies and legitimate targets.

If you'd just stopped at expressing horror at the attack and the rising menace of Islamophobic extremism, you would have been fully justified; but as you're clearly stating that every single Westerner is your enemy, and laughably accused me of being a far-right Islamophobe, you really don't get to have any benefit of the doubt here. Before that I might have said you were just expressing horror and frustration in a less than effective way, but not now.

 

[Hamid.H]

I don't have to be a mind-reader to read between the lines.

Here, you say specifically white liberals need to be "thrown under the bus" because they're not doing enough. I asked you what exactly you would have them do, but you dodged the question...

you didnt ask what i would have them do. you made a rhetorical statement:

What kind of resistance do you want? Left-wing militias shooting Nazis in the streets?

You know perfectly well what that specific term means: the House of War, territories that have neither converted to Islam, nor have signed non-aggression pacts with the Dar al-Islam, and thus are fair game for war, hence the name. It does not simply mean "place where there is violence." Otherwise you'd have to put the Middle East in there, along with plenty of other non-Western, non-white areas.

really?? could you possibly be anymore islamophobic at this point?? youre literally spewing alt-right propaganda.

Here you state the NZ massacre was an act of war. By whom upon whom? The victims are Muslims, clearly, but who declared war?

49 innocent people were killed during a time of peace and vulnerability by a fascist and xenophobic white supremacist. he entered mosques with a weapon of war. he had charles martel, turkofagos, and other white supremacist slogans from the white christian west written on his assault rifle. there can be no misunderstanding as to what his motivations where. he openly supports the genocide of muslims and poc. this was a horrific act of war that he callously live streamed on the internet.

And there it is. The West. All of it is collectively to blame, apparently. Which includes all those who gathered in support of the victims of this abominable crime perpetrated by Islamophobic extremists, but hey, we white liberals who support Muslim right to life and freedom of religion and from harassment are all identical to the attackers, apparently. And no matter what we do or think, we're apparently your enemies and legitimate targets.

white liberals that support the muslim right to life - how exactly? please tell me because 49 innocent people were denied their so-called right to life. what are the white liberals going to do about it exactly? nothing. absolutely nothing is what theyre going to do because it doesnt effect them. sure theyll virtue signal and light some candles and maybe, just maybe, if were lucky they will allow us the religious freedom of broadcasting a call to prayer. thank you so much white liberals.

If you'd just stopped at expressing horror at the attack and the rising menace of Islamophobic extremism, you would have been fully justified; but as you're clearly stating that every single Westerner is your enemy, and laughably accused me of being a far-right Islamophobe, you really don't get to have any benefit of the doubt here. Before that I might have said you were just expressing horror and frustration in a less than effective way, but not now.

i said you were spouting far-right islamophobic tropes. i express my fear and horror in the aftermath of this tragedy and you aggressively accuse me of being your enemy and an enemy of "the west." you badger me to be forthright about what i "really believe" and to "stop dodging" your questions/insinuations. are you fricking serious?!? if that isnt textbook islamophobia then i dont know what is.

then the icing on the cake is your statement:

If you'd just stopped at expressing horror at the attack and the rising menace of Islamophobic extremism, you would have been fully justified

of course. why bring up the fact that the white liberal status quo resides upon an xenophobic and systemically racist culture of white supremacy. im sure this was just another isolated incident by some loon. it wasnt all white people. not all white people support the genocide of muslims and poc. just some. lets just maintain the status quo that we white liberals benefit from daily and light another candle for 49 more victims. the patina of progress. its just more white liberal window dressing and virtue signaling and weve heard it all before.

muslims and poc are on there own and somehow they need to come to that realization and take appropriate measures.

hh

 

[aelf]

If it makes it any better, I do support a war against fascists (though I'm not white). But, as you can see, there are plenty of moderates who are against any action against fascists and would cite peaceful marching Nazis as a counter-argument. These people vote too and, by and large, dictate how society is run today (i.e. the status quo).

 

[Patine]

you didnt ask what i would have them do. you made a rhetorical statement:


really?? could you possibly be anymore islamophobic at this point?? youre literally spewing alt-right propaganda.

49 innocent people were killed during a time of peace and vulnerability by a fascist and xenophobic white supremacist. he entered mosques with a weapon of war. he had charles martel, turkofagos, and other white supremacist slogans from the white christian west written on his assault rifle. there can be no misunderstanding as to what his motivations where. he openly supports the genocide of muslims and poc. this was a horrific act of war that he callously live streamed on the internet.

white liberals that support the muslim right to life - how exactly? please tell me because 49 innocent people were denied their so-called right to life. what are the white liberals going to do about it exactly? nothing. absolutely nothing is what theyre going to do because it doesnt effect them. sure theyll virtue signal and light some candles and maybe, just maybe, if were lucky they will allow us the religious freedom of broadcasting a call to prayer. thank you so much white liberals.

i said you were spouting far-right islamophobic tropes. i express my fear and horror in the aftermath of this tragedy and you aggressively accuse me of being your enemy and an enemy of "the west." you badger me to be forthright about what i "really believe" and to "stop dodging" your questions/insinuations. are you fricking serious?!? if that isnt textbook islamophobia then i dont know what is.

then the icing on the cake is your statement:

of course. why bring up the fact that the white liberal status quo resides upon an xenophobic and systemically racist culture of white supremacy. im sure this was just another isolated incident by some loon. it wasnt all white people. not all white people support the genocide of muslims and poc. just some. lets just maintain the status quo that we white liberals benefit from daily and light another candle for 49 more victims. the patina of progress. its just more white liberal window dressing and virtue signaling and weve heard it all before.

muslims and poc are on there own and somehow they need to come to that realization and take appropriate measures.

hh

This type of post, and a Hell of a lot of others of similar tenor and style, by people across the political, cultural, national, and religious spectrums confirm a belief I'm fearing more and more - that even though a LOT of these conversations go on against each other about militant Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Atheism clashing ideologically and with violence against each other, I'm convinced another religion entirely is on the rise, and many, many who claim to follow the previous religions and vehemently advocate for, and denounce, the other's views, tactics, followers, and legitimacy. A religion is rising again whose last public, admitted to, and open and overt manifestations died in the Netherlands and China, both in the 15th Century, but I believe it's coming back with a vengeance, even no one publicly takes it's label. Yes folks, the Manichaean Revival, with it's black-and-white, us-and-them, siege mentality, binary, simplistic moral and social viewpoint, no compromise, no grey areas, no neutrality ideology leading to certain ruin and a death spiral of GLOBAL civilization into a new Dark Age is upon us!

 

[Hamid.H]

If it makes it any better, I do support a war against fascists (though I'm not white). But, as you can see, there are plenty of moderates who are against any action against fascists and would cite peaceful marching Nazis as a counter-argument. These people vote too and, by and large, dictate how society is run today (i.e. the status quo).

until their vile culture and system of beliefs is eradicated nothing will change. they have literally lost the legitimacy and privilege of governing themselves at this point.

hh

 

[Patine]

until their vile culture and system of beliefs is eradicated nothing will change. they have literally lost the legitimacy and privilege of governing themselves at this point.

hh

Who?

 

[abradley]

Keep in mind what the sicko that killed the NZLanders wanted ... a war!

 

[aelf]

I didn't read his manifesto or whatever, but the extreme right has always been clamouring for a clash of civilizations. Dubya's Iraq War basically handed it to them on a silver platter, and it's been simmering ever since.

But if it's a war between the far right and everybody else he wants, I do agree it should probably take place. Fascists only understand force. Trying to dialogue with them will only let them spread their ideology further. Not that I like it, but with the way our societies are structured now, the only realistic way to deal with it is to fight it like terrorism à la Islamic radicalism - e.g. white supremacists being monitored, hauled away, jailed indefinitely and shot up by police.

Yup, asking law enforcement to deal with them is a violent solution, but it might work for now.

 

[Zardnaar]

I didn't read his manifesto or whatever, but the extreme right has always been clamouring for a clash of civilizations. Dubya's Iraq War basically handed it to them on a silver platter, and it's been simmering ever since.

But if it's a war between the far right and everybody else he wants, I do agree it should probably take place. Fascists only understand force. Trying to dialogue with them will only let them spread their ideology further. Not that I like it, but with the way our societies are structured now, the only realistic way to deal with it is to fight it like terrorism à la Islamic radicalism - e.g. white supremacists being monitored, hauled away, jailed indefinitely and shot up by police.

Yup, asking law enforcement to deal with them is a violent solution, but it might work for now.

I have now problem letting the authorities deal with it.

Not a fan of mobs.

 

[Patine]

I have now problem letting the authorities deal with it.

Not a fan of mobs.

Indeed. The Old Deep South and the early phase of the French Revolution show the wisdom of wanting to avoid mob justice.

 

[Hamid.H]

Indeed. The Old Deep South and the early phase of the French Revolution show the wisdom of wanting to avoid mob justice.

which is exactly what alef wants (as long as its his version of mob justice). i am saddened by his false sincerity for the tragedy and horror of this attack. he offers his "sympathies" then proceeds to use that as a platform to attack his political enemies and moderates. i am literally heartbroken by this in a way that non-muslims probably cant understand. i feel like everyone is attempting to use this tragedy for their own personal benefit and that truly saddens me. am i angry about what happened? of course. does some part of me desire revenge? yes. but what bothers me the most is that it happened and there is nothing anyone can do about it. i saw the video. i saw the woman begging for help and then was mercilessly shot and run over. as a muslim living in the west it terrifies me and also repulses me. i feel like im torn between two worlds and im being forced to chose. then what drives the knife even deeper is people attempting to use this tragedy to further their own political ideology. its heartbreaking.

hh

 

[aelf]

I have now problem letting the authorities deal with it.

Not a fan of mobs.

The authorities are the extension of a mob in a democracy. Of course, things can get complicated when the state has its own logic. But as long as there's enough support (or perceived support) for state violence against a certain group, the state will carry it out on behalf of the demos (mob).

 

[Hamid.H]

The authorities are the extension of a mob in a democracy. Of course, things can get complicated when the state has its own logic. But as long as there's enough support (or perceived support) for state violence against a certain group, the state will carry it out on behalf of the demos (mob).

this is a ridiculous statement. first you state that the authorities are the extension of a mob, implying they have no agency. then you state that they have their own logic, which would infer motivations and desires. then you go on to imply that if they have enough support for violence direct against a certain group that they would willingly carry it out. well, if they have logic, which means they also have agency, which also means that your first statement - that the authorities are simply the extension of a mob - is nothing but a bold faced lie. not only that, but it also means regardless whether or not their is support for violence directed against a certain group, that does not mean that law enforcement would direct violence toward that group.

you can take your filthy lies and divisive language elsewhere. i cannot believe you have the arrogance to think that everyone here is so stupid as to fall for your political pandering. its people like you who have fermented the sentiments that have lead to this attack and will ferment the sentiments that will lead to its retaliation. its people like you who will force all of us to chose a single side. may Khuda damn you and your vile intentions.

hh

 

[aelf]

You're nuts. There has been no line or position that you have not attacked. In any case, "the authorities are the extension of a mob" does not necessarily mean the 'authorities' (not necessarily equivalent to the state either) have no agency. But as long as they choose to act on behalf of the mob, and this happens often enough in a democracy, they are the extension of the mob.

As others have said, you're welcome to state what your views are on what should be done. Or go on moaning at everyone. Whatever.

 

[Hamid.H]

You're nuts.

Or go on moaning at everyone. Whatever.

oh, i see. go on moaning about this tragedy to everyone and youre nuts. thanks for your false sympathy. looks like i called it correctly.

There has been no line or position that you have not attacked.

i have been attacked by several people here since i originally posted. by some for being sympathetic to the persecution of muslims in the west and by others such as yourself for not being a useful cog within the ideology you want to propagate.

In any case, "the authorities are the extension of a mob" does not necessarily mean the 'authorities' (not necessarily equivalent to the state either) have no agency. But as long as they choose to act on behalf of the mob, and this happens often enough in a democracy, they are the extension of the mob.

now were back to what really matters, right?

because im feeling spiteful, lets deconstruct this, shall we?

you state that "the authorities are the extension of a mob" then you state that by authorities you dont actually mean "state" authorities. then you go on to say, that the authorities do in fact have their own agency, but wait... didnt you already say that:

The authorities are the extension of a mob in a democracy.

hmm... somethings not right here. someone is being disingenuous and attempting to use an xenophobic and islamophobic mass murder to propagate their own political narrative. how absolutely sickeningly vile.

As others have said, you're welcome to state what your views are on what should be done.

perhaps i dont know what should be done? perhaps, it seems that there isnt anything that can be done; as someone has already mentioned:

Fifty, unfortunatly.

lives have been taken. innocent lives. during a time of peace, worship, and vulnerability.

Or go on moaning at everyone. Whatever.

and i suppose thats what i will do.

Whatever.

thanks for your false sincerity.

hh

 

[aelf]

I'm pretty used to being seen as a kind of villain (comes with the territory as a Marxist), so feel free to keep the crap coming if that makes you feel better.

i have been attacked by several people here since i originally posted. by some for being sympathetic to the persecution of muslims in the west and by others such as yourself for not being a useful cog within the ideology you want to propagate.

Hold up. I didn't attack you for not agreeing with me. In fact, you attacked me for... who knows? I'm just responding to that.

because im feeling spiteful, lets deconstruct this, shall we?

you state that "the authorities are the extension of a mob" then you state that by authorities you dont actually mean "state" authorities. then you go on to say, that the authorities do in fact have their own agency, but wait... didnt you already say that:

The 'authorities', as used by the other poster, would presumably refer to law enforcement, which was what I originally mentioned. The state is not synonymous with law enforcement. The state also consists of the government of the day and various other bureaucracies that support it. This isn't hard.

perhaps i dont know what should be done? perhaps, it seems that there isnt anything that can be done

lives have been taken. innocent lives. during a time of peace, worship, and vulnerability.

But then you also said stuff like this:

honestly, is anyone else starting to **** their pants? i mean this stuff is becoming more and more common place. we egg an australian nazi and they kill 49. anyone else doing the math? white liberals (and i hate to throw them under the bus but someone needs to) their #resistance is nothing but a "feel good about yourself" larp.

As far as I can tell, 'white liberals' are more than willing to send you thoughts and prayers, so perhaps you should make friends with them instead?