No cd protection in Civ4 - they are USELESS

[Abaddon]

If the CD protection stops 1 pirate, then it is doing its job.

Hmmmm, YEA RIGHT!

lol! If i were the producer and known the k's id spend on the cd lock, had only resulted on ONE more cd being, id be mad.

You sound like a naturist "but if just one of the ofspring survives to adulthood..."

 

[Civrules]

I don't know what the statistics are as to how many people fail to copy the game because of this, so I'm just going to go with the logical answer.

Having no protection for a huge hit PC game doesn't make any sense.

 

[sealman]

Hmmmm, YEA RIGHT!

lol! If i were the producer and known the k's id spend on the cd lock, had only resulted on ONE more cd being, id be mad.

You sound like a naturist "but if just one of the ofspring survives to adulthood..."

I never said it was cost effective, just said it was doing its job.

 

[zorven]

How about a game developer's opinion:

http://draginol.joeuser.com/index.asp?aid=209

 

[Civrules]

So he doesn't mind his own games being distributed freely over the internet?
I'm not sure many game developers will agree with him, but that’s just my own opinion.

 

[Coorae]

Its amazing how much more people will play a game that doesnt require a CD.
You are bored and just look at the icon on the desktop...
All you have to do is click it.
I wonder where the CD is.... here is a stack.... some are getting scratched up... I think my brother took it... oh well I dont really feel like playing it.

 

[tR1cKy]

Sealman, honestly. Are you kidding?

tR1cKy: cd protection is useless, pirates will copy them anyway
sealman: if it stops only 1 pirate, it does its job
slozenger: it's not cost effective
sealman: whatever
tR1cKy: people go for warez, honest players are the only one bothered by this crap
sealman: the publishers do whatever they want, if you don't like it don't buy it



Apart from the fact that saying "the publishers do whatever they want", albeit true, is on the same level of "sky is blue", "water is wet", or "an apple is an apple", i don't think that the point of this thread, and the scope of this entire section of CivFanatic forum, is to decide if the publishers have or not the right to do what they want (it's obvious they have it). It's "civ4 ideas and suggestions", remember? And the suggestion in this case is "Don't put copy protection on cd. They are useless for these reasons: blah blah blah blah...."

If you want to object that "they do whatever they want", then all these threads are useless, since publishers will do whatever they want regardless of what we write here. So what's the point of such an objection, apart the desire to contradict someone?

If you care to think about this issue in an open and intelligent manner, i strongly suggest you to read the article linked by zorven a few posts up. Anyway, i'll quote the part that seems more significative for me:

From the publishers of "Galactic Civilizations"

The "Stupidity" of Copy Protection

There are no good statistics yet on what percentage of people are significantly affected by CD copy protection. But the anecdotal evidence is very disturbing.

I suspect that many reading this have either personally experienced what I'm about to describe or know someone who has gone through this:

Joe Gamer goes out and buys a game from the store. They get it home and play it and enjoy it. But one day, a few months later, they go to play it and can't find the CD. Where is the CD? There are piles of CDs everywhere. Maybe the kids took it. Maybe it fell into the trash.

Frustrated, Joe Gamer goes onto the net to look for a way to play the game without a CD. They go onto Google or Yahoo or whatever search engine they use and over the course of an hour or two they finally make their way to the "warez" world where cracks, file downloads, etc. are all easily available. More than that, warez has gotten frighteningly sophisticated with seamless distribution file systems and more. They find not just the CD crack but links to all the latest titles.

So then Joe Gamer, who normally buys games, now has to look at his options:

a) He can do "the right thing" and drive out to the store. Spend $50 on the game, bring it home and deal with the CD copy protection.

or

b) He can click on a link and have the game in a few hours. No CDs to mess with and no cost.

What do you think many Joe Gamers of the world are going to do? And what about the Joe Gamer whose game won't work because the CD protection doesn't work on their model of CD-ROM drive or DVD drive? Talk about motivating people to learn about warez.

In short: CD Copy Protection Creates Pirates.

Joe Gamer previously knew nothing about this stuff. The demographic info on Joe Gamer (which we at Stardock over 10 years have a pretty good idea of) is that money isn't the issue, it's convenience. And once he's invested the time to solve his lost CD problem, he then has a harder time justifying the hassle of buying future titles. And many people find it very easy to rationalize their piracy. Joe Gamer included.

So the game publishers, in their attempt to stop the 16 year old pirate (and failing) has instead turned the 25 year old casual PC gamer into a pirate.

 

[tR1cKy]

So he doesn't mind his own games being distributed freely over the internet?
I'm not sure many game developers will agree with him, but that’s just my own opinion.

As i said before, and as hundreds of millions of people around the world know very well, pirate copies are made and distributed anyway, cd protection or not.

Do a search with winmx and you'll find: Civ3, Civ3 PTW, Civ3 Conquests, Civ3 ripped in 180MB, the music files missing from the rip, the game in Italian, in French, in German, in Chinese, in Japanese... the no-cd patch for Civ3, for PTW, for conquests, the same for the french, german, japanese etc.. versions...

You obviously find also Galactic Civilizations. Then what? You're stuck with the 1.00 version of the game, unexpanded and bug-ridden. You get no updates, no fixes, no extras & so on...

Then you go to the publisher's website: you find lots of fixes, updates, scenario, mods and what else. But you need a legitimate key to get'em.
So you ask yourself: why not buying it? It's only 25 bucks...

 

[Dida]

I can always find a way to rid the need of putting CD in my drive to play. So protection or not, it makes no difference to me.

 

[sealman]

...
If you want to object that "they do whatever they want", then all these threads are useless, since publishers will do whatever they want regardless of what we write here. So what's the point of such an objection, apart the desire to contradict someone?
....

I never said that what we write here is useless. While the developers and publishers are going to do what they feel is in their best interest, they will (I hope) look to the potential clients to get some idea of what they want. if they feel they should go without a CD protection, so be it. But do you wish to deny them the right to protect their creation?

Sure, having the CD protection on the game may create pirates out of some players. Sure, even the less computer savy person can surf the web to find out how to beat it. But is that really a reason to stop using CD Protection??

I need a car key to start up my car. But what happens if I leave my key at work, I can't start me car. I guess I should push the auto makers to forget about the whole Key thing and just go with a starter button because any non mechanical savy person can hope onto the web and find out how to hotwire a car, thus making the whole key idea pointless.

While the article posted is a good offer and makes some valid points from the views of ONE designer/developer/publisher, I am sure it is not the prevailing viewport. If it was, than more and more games would not have the protection.

 

[civzombie]

"The developers have the right to protect their product any way they desire. if you don't like it, don't buy it. That is your right."

Don't be quip. He didn't say that the developers don't have the right. He said that it was a bad idea because the supposed positive effect wasn't working right and that the protection is annoying.

And why are you trying to tell him to quit complaining anyway? If people like him didn't attempt to communicate the fact that the protection is annoying, how would the developers find out that the protection was annoying? I am pretty sure most people find the protection annoying. Hopefully the game publishers are continuously reassessing their protection technology to determine whether if it still working (due to sites like gamecopyworld.com). If it is not still working, and it is still annoying, perhaps they should consider another means of protection.

 

[civzombie]

"I need a car key to start up my car. But what happens if I leave my key at work, I can't start me car. I guess I should push the auto makers to forget about the whole Key thing and just go with a starter button because any non mechanical savy person can hope onto the web and find out how to hotwire a car, thus making the whole key idea pointless."

I don't think that is a very good analogy. A key and ignition system is put in for the car owner's direct benefit. In contrast, a copy protection is put in for the direct benefit of the developer/publisher.

If you insist on sticking with cars, a better analogy would be this. Imagine if nobody stole cars. You could just walk into your car and drive whereever without needing keys without fear of theft (we can dream cant we). In this world, you buy a new car that has a key and ignition system so that the manufacturer can keep track of how often your drive your car. You forget lose your key and can't start your car and miss your exam at school and fail the exam. You get pissed seeing everyone else without keys just walking in and driving your car while you need a key to start yours. I think a reasonable person being locked out of driving their own car would resent their car manufacturer for requiring the use of a key everytime for their benefit.

 

[sealman]

"I need a car key to start up my car. But what happens if I leave my key at work, I can't start me car. I guess I should push the auto makers to forget about the whole Key thing and just go with a starter button because any non mechanical savy person can hope onto the web and find out how to hotwire a car, thus making the whole key idea pointless."

I don't think that is a very good analogy. A key and ignition system is put in for the car owner's direct benefit. In contrast, a copy protection is put in for the direct benefit of the developer/publisher.
....

They are both put in to stop thiefs. But yes, you are correct in one asspect. One protects the buyer (keys) and the other the developer (CD Protection.)

 

[sealman]

"The developers have the right to protect their product any way they desire. if you don't like it, don't buy it. That is your right."

Don't be quip. He didn't say that the developers don't have the right. He said that it was a bad idea because the supposed positive effect wasn't working right and that the protection is annoying.

And why are you trying to tell him to quit complaining anyway? If people like him didn't attempt to communicate the fact that the protection is annoying, how would the developers find out that the protection was annoying? I am pretty sure most people find the protection annoying. Hopefully the game publishers are continuously reassessing their protection technology to determine whether if it still working (due to sites like gamecopyworld.com). If it is not still working, and it is still annoying, perhaps they should consider another means of protection.

Since you decided to point out to me that tR1cky did not say that the developers don't have the right to protect their investment, let me point out that I never told him to stop complaining. I just staid that he was whining about it. I also did not tell him to stop whining. It is his right to complaint, or whine in my view, about an issue that is important to him. Just as it is the developers right to protect their game.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have really have an opinion one way or the other on shipping CIV4 with or without CD Protection. It won't effect if I buy the game or not, and it won't influence how often I play the game.

 

[deo]

In my opinion!

Put everything what you want to protect the game, i will copy it but why?:

1.I don't have the monny for that
2.If i had the monny i would not find a original one because i live in a poor poor country.

Put what copy protection you wan't or cd key, you will find it in the internet and if you are clever you can even make the game Original!. But without protection it would be so:

Jerry: Hi mike
Mike: Hi
Jerry: Hey mike is that Civ4
Mike: Yea
Jerry: I saw in the internet that it dosn't have a cd copy protection so it dosn't require the cd, can i copy that? I don't wana spend $40
Mike: Ok

Less buyers!

 

[civzombie]

"let me point out that I never told him to stop complaining. "

Usually when people say, if you don't like it don't buy it. That is usually not-to-secret code for "quit complaining."

I sure hope that these publishers/developers are reassessing whether their current protection is effective. Times change and security should adapt.

Any of you old timer's remember old games like the original pirates that would ask you a question in the middle of the game that would require you to check the instruction booklet to answer and continue playing? I think that was more annoying than the CD check, so I am glad that the companies previously reassessed and moved to a less annoying security method. Let's hope this progress continues!

 

[tR1cKy]

About the "cars vs. cd" issue: car locks are put in the interest of the buyer. It's the buyer who wants them. Would you buy a car which can be opened and stolen by the 1st idiot passing around?
On the other hand, cd protection are put in the interest of the buyer, and it's the buyer who require them, right?

@deo: cd copy protection and cd check at start are 2 separate things, you are mixing apples with oranges. However:
Jerry: Hi mike
Mike: Hi
Jerry: Hey mike is that Civ3
Mike: Yea
Jerry: I saw in the internet that it has a cd copy protection, and requires the original cd to be inserted for playing. Are you able to copy it? I don't wanna spend $40
Mike: No problem, i'll just copy and paste all the contents except for the "laserlok" directory and burn a perfectly working installation cd in less than 5 minutes.
Jerry: and for the original cd required to play?
Mike: No problem, i'll just add to the cd the no-cd patch that i downloaded in 2 minutes yesterday

 

[sealman]

About the "cars vs. cd" issue: car locks are put in the interest of the buyer. It's the buyer who wants them. Would you buy a car which can be opened and stolen by the 1st idiot passing around?
On the other hand, cd protection are put in the interest of the buyer, and it's the buyer who require them, right?

You missed the whole point and I already agreed that the key for the car is there for the buyer and the cd protection is there for the buyer. However, they are both included for the same primary reason.

And that is to stop theft.

Edit: the phrase "the cd protection is there for the buyer" should read "the cd protection is tehre for the developer/publisher.

 

[JG99_Korab]

About the "cars vs. cd" issue: car locks are put in the interest of the buyer. It's the buyer who wants them. Would you buy a car which can be opened and stolen by the 1st idiot passing around?
On the other hand, cd protection are put in the interest of the buyer, and it's the buyer who require them, right?

@deo: cd copy protection and cd check at start are 2 separate things, you are mixing apples with oranges. However:
Jerry: Hi mike
Mike: Hi
Jerry: Hey mike is that Civ3
Mike: Yea
Jerry: I saw in the internet that it has a cd copy protection, and requires the original cd to be inserted for playing. Are you able to copy it? I don't wanna spend $40
Mike: No problem, i'll just copy and paste all the contents except for the "laserlok" directory and burn a perfectly working installation cd in less than 5 minutes.
Jerry: and for the original cd required to play?
Mike: No problem, i'll just add to the cd the no-cd patch that i downloaded in 2 minutes yesterday

You know. I think you probably just told a whole lotta people how to copy civ3. lol

 

[JG99_Korab]

but. They'd probably figure it out anyways. Its NOT that hard. I personally only use crack because I like to keep my original cds in mint condition incase I want to sell them in the far future. And like that guy said. "CDS are a royal pain in the @#$