Noble Shadow game - Washington

- I feel like I've worked everything to the point where there's no more things to improve with my workers. I've put them in a random hill in my territory for now, but what is there to do? Should I move more of them to the island and work those tiles?
Send a few over to the island. The rest can build roads and chop jungle for the moment. Also you can improve tiles you have not worked up to now, as long as your workers have nothing to do you do not lose anything.
- I think I can still work the sea tiles, which is probably ok to do, so I should probably increase my happiness to improve those right? I feel like my cities are all very developed now. Is there anything more I need to do here?
As discussed, with a unit required for happiness, this is still ok. You should definitely be building warriors for happiness instead of axes, as they are much cheaper. Both axes and warriors will soon be obsolete militarily anyway, so the higher strength of axes really does not do anything.
- I feel like I'm also at the point where I don't need to build much else in my cities. Should I build a market? Should I build a courthouse? Should I just build research/wealth?
No. No. Wealth. The idea is that any empire tends to have a higher modifier for research than gold and thus building wealth is a higher net gain than building research, due to this direct production not benefiting from this modifier. Thus if you run the research slider very high (aim for 100%), markets do not do anything. Courthouses are actually slightly dependent on playstyle. The main point against them is that state property is very strong and basically obsoletes courthouses, as it greatly reduces maintenance on its own. Building courthouses competes with building wealth, so building a courthouse effectively costs 120 :gold:. It does tend to break even within 40 or so turns, but as it shifts the benefits to a later time, it actually needs to save a lot more gold to be worth it. Thus it typically slows down key techs at first and then barely speeds them up, making them a bad choice.

Now if you want to avoid state property it is good to get them sooner rather than later. Especially if you want to go for corporations you need courthouses.
I'm doing civil service for now, since I think bureaucracy is good? What else should I be going for here?
CS is good, medium term keep an eye on philo-paper-education-liberalism for the free tech. A great scientist can bulb e.g. philosophy or parts of education. I would say it is a bit late for the top of the tree wonders, so that has a lower priority. Optics might also be good to meet more civs, but they will probably also come to you not too late. The rest is more or less military tech which is unnecessary as long as you do not plan on going to war.
 
Some more questions I had:
Here is a picture of my current civics:
1758660144070.jpeg

I would have liked to switched to caste system but seeing that it would replace slavery I'm not sure if that's good. Should I just stay on slavery for now?
What other civics should I be looking forward to? After looking at what each civic does, I feel like hereditary rule, bureaucracy, slavery, state property, and free religion is good? Is that okay?

Also, war. What is it good for?

Should I be aiming to declare war this game? When should I do it? I would probably war against Elizabeth if I had the chance. Which troops should I use?
 
I would have liked to switched to caste system but seeing that it would replace slavery I'm not sure if that's good. Should I just stay on slavery for now?
Yes, that is a major question. Usually, you want to be in caste if you are not whipping anything. With a spiritual leader you could actually switch quite often, so you would.

With anyone non-spiritual, you need either a golden age (as there is no anarchy during one) to switch into caste at the beginning and back to slavery at the end, or you need to have a huge pool of population that can run a large number of specialists, and not want to whip for a longer time.

While I think staying in slavery would be stronger, you can probably do either one.

Also while you have less than 13 cities you can switch 2 civics with only one turn of anarchy. If you wanted to switch into caste the best moment would be when you switch into bureau.
What other civics should I be looking forward to? After looking at what each civic does, I feel like hereditary rule, bureaucracy, slavery, state property, and free religion is good? Is that okay?
Yes, except for free religion. A significant consideration with religious civics is diplomacy, due to same/different religion modifiers. Also the other civics are quite string, as long as you spread your state religion. Organized religion is great for anyone building infrastructure, pacifism while running specialists (great synergy with caste), and theocracy can help while building military, adding 2xp, allows you to get 2 promotions in cities with barracks and your state religion.

Also police state and universal suffrage can beat HR later in the game, depending on what you are doing. Representation beats HR early in the game, and is thus the civic you should adopt if you build the pyramids.

Free speech can also beat bureau if you have lots of towns or are going for a culture victory.
Also, war. What is it good for?
Getting land. You need lots of land for anything except a culture and sometimes a space race victory.

Sometimes to prevent an AI from winning (mostly from culture).
Should I be aiming to declare war this game? When should I do it? I would probably war against Elizabeth if I had the chance. Which troops should I use?
How do you want to win? You are low on religions for a culture win. Anything else needs more land, meaning war or a big island with astronomy.

If you attack standard choices would be cuirassiers only, cannons+something to mop up (e.g. maces, knights), or rifles+trebs.
 
Also while you have less than 13 cities you can switch 2 civics with only one turn of anarchy. If you wanted to switch into caste the best moment would be when you switch into bureau.
I've always wondered how the number of turns of anarchy was determined with multiple switches. Is there a post/guide you know of with this info?
 
Shoot something I forgot to mention, Alexander declared war on Elizabeth a couple turns ago (520 AD, so 4 turns ago?), that's probably pretty important to mention.
Should I take advantage of this moment?

Turns 140-160 coming tonight
 
Remember that you still have 2 cities on the island to settle, 1 for the fish and 1 for the clam. And in the north you could fit a third city, but maybe keep that one for when you have State Property.
 
Remember that you still have 2 cities on the island to settle, 1 for the fish and 1 for the clam. And in the north you could fit a third city, but maybe keep that one for when you have State Property.
For the clam on the island, it seems like there's no way to get it into the first ring for any city, should I still settle it? And where?
 
For the clam on the island, it seems like there's no way to get it into the first ring for any city, should I still settle it? And where?
Well, you can't always have food in the first ring. It's not a rule, just something you want to prioritize in the early game. I think the southern tip grabs more grassland, but wastes a forest.
 
Turns 140-160

Spoiler :

Highlights this round:
- Alexander conquered a city of Elizabeth's
- I got a great scientist in Boston, and I used it to lightbulb philosophy (was that the right play? Should I have built an academy instead?)
- I founded taoism and revolted right away. I got a free missionary which I put on auto.
- Finished researching Civil service. I'm going to research Compass for the Harbor first, then go straight to Liberalism.
- Built Los Angeles
- I built some libraries/markets (cause ig i didn’t have anything else to build, and i wanted to whip some pop so my cities didnt get unhealthy/unhappy)
- I built a bunch of harbors to get more health in some of my cities.

Here is the current state of my cities:
20250925004439_1.jpg20250925004436_1.jpg20250925004434_1.jpg20250925004431_1.jpg20250925004428_1.jpg20250925004348_1.jpg20250925004345_1.jpg20250925004343_1.jpg20250925004338_1.jpg

Here are my future plans:
After getting liberalism, I want to get a quick optics for the whaling boats, then I'm gonna go towards a military tech so I can go to WAR! I plan on waging war against Elizabeth and getting a science victory. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to wage this war, more importantly how to prepare/build the units and make sure my economy doesn't completely crash during the war. Let me know if this is a good game plan or if I'm missing something!

This also popped up:
20250925001813_1.jpg
Am I super behind on techs right now or what?

I also realized I forgot to switch to bureaucracy after I got it oops, I need to do it next round.

Also, religion: I just set it to auto, but should I do something with this?

Also here's a picture of the current demographics:
1758776150318.jpeg

And the current graphs:
1758776239797.jpeg

I'd say I'm looking pretty good.

Thanks for reading! Tune in for turns 160-180 next time!

 
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Turns 140-160

Spoiler :

Highlights this round:
- Alexander conquered a city of Elizabeth's
- I got a great scientist in Boston, and I used it to lightbulb philosophy (was that the right play? Should I have built an academy instead?)
- I founded taoism and revolted right away. I got a free missionary which I put on auto.
- Finished researching Civil service. I'm going to research Compass for the Harbor first, then go straight to Liberalism.
- Built Los Angeles
- I built some libraries/markets (cause ig i didn’t have anything else to build, and i wanted to whip some pop so my cities didnt get unhealthy/unhappy)
- I built a bunch of harbors to get more health in some of my cities.

Here is the current state of my cities:
View attachment 743416View attachment 743417View attachment 743418View attachment 743419View attachment 743420View attachment 743421View attachment 743422View attachment 743423View attachment 743424

Here are my future plans:
After getting liberalism, I want to get a quick optics for the whaling boats, then I'm gonna go towards a military tech so I can go to WAR! I plan on waging war against Elizabeth and getting a science victory. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to wage this war, more importantly how to prepare/build the units and make sure my economy doesn't completely crash during the war. Let me know if this is a good game plan or if I'm missing something!

This also popped up:
View attachment 743425
Am I super behind on techs right now or what?

I also realized I forgot to switch to bureaucracy after I got it oops, I need to do it next round.

Also, religion: I just set it to auto, but should I do something with this?

Also here's a picture of the current demographics:
View attachment 743428
And the current graphs:
View attachment 743429
I'd say I'm looking pretty good.

Thanks for reading! Tune in for turns 160-180 next time!

In my view, you still have 3-4 cities to settle: the insular clam site, the clam horse site, a city on the jungle hill to the northeast of the southern pig, and a city in the north of the island. That would eventually get you to 13 cities. With that land, you could go modern era before attacking, or even go to space. The question now is, what will you get from Lib? I suggest Astro, as you have only 2 neighbors on your continent. After that, beeline Communism, then Assembly Line, and then maybe flight, tanks, or computers, for space.
 
Some additional points:
- I got a great scientist in Boston, and I used it to lightbulb philosophy (was that the right play? Should I have built an academy instead?)
It's kinda late for that. You could have kept that for Astro and then libbed Scientific Method or something.

I founded taoism and revolted right away. I got a free missionary which I put on auto.
Don't. Use it to spread the religion to London. A missionary can only be used once.

- I built some libraries/markets (cause ig i didn’t have anything else to build, and i wanted to whip some pop so my cities didnt get unhealthy/unhappy)
Libraries are great buildings. Markets mostly terrible. Don't whip just for the sake of getting rid of unhappiness, only when you actually need to build something.

I built a bunch of harbors to get more health in some of my cities.
Too early for that. Build them for the health after you get your factories up.
 
you still have 3-4 cities to settle: the insular clam site, the clam horse site, a city on the jungle hill to the northeast of the southern pig, and a city in the north of the island.
Got it. So here?
Spoiler City spots :

20250925234445_1.jpg20250925234442_1.jpg20250925234439_1.jpg20250925234437_1.jpg

I feel like these cities are just so-so, since they have their food in the second ring (the fourth one doesn't even have food). Will this be enough for the rest of the game? How many cities should I have at each point in the game?
Also would I be building a monument first in these cities?

It's kinda late for that. You could have kept that for Astro and then libbed Scientific Method or something.
How do I decide what is best for the great people? Is an academy bad? Why was lightbulbing Philosophy a bad play (can great scientists even choose what techs to lightbulb?)

Don't whip just for the sake of getting rid of unhappiness, only when you actually need to build something.
Do I just let my cities grow into unhappiness/unhealthiness until it's time to build something? My perfectionist side feels kind of weird about that. Wouldn't that be a waste of population?

Also another question I had: I should probably get into trading techs right? I haven't been doing that (or any diplomatic stuff at all for that matter) this game. Which techs should I prioritize trading? (I kind of answered this question myself, elizabeth and alexander are both willing to trade hunting I guess)
 
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I feel like these cities are just so-so, since they have their food in the second ring (the fourth one doesn't even have food). Will this be enough for the rest of the game? How many cities should I have at each point in the game?
Also would I be building a monument first in these cities?

Don't settle a spot with no food. Food in the 2nd ring is ok because at some point you will run caste system and just put an artist specialist for a few turns to grow the borders. Monument is not necessary unless you need the extra happiness (because Washington is charismatic, non-CHA leaders don't get this benefit from monuments).

For a science game you need at least 6 good production cities. Generally these are cities with a lot of green land that you can convert into workshops and watermills in preparation for state property. Those cities will have a forge and one, usually the best production outside the capital, will get the Ironworks. They will also have a levee (if on river), a factory with power plant, the health buildings, an observatory (prereq for the lab) and a laboratory (to speed up spaceship part construction). The capital is can usually hold a few production buildings, including the forge, even if it stays mainly a commerce/science city. You generally want Oxford university in the bureaucracy capital, and that requires 6 universities in the empire. Those can be hard to build in a non-production-rich city due to the high cost, but you can plan ahead and save some forests to chop.

It's a good idea to have closer to 20 cities for a faster space date, so you want to grab an AI's best cities to supplement your own and cover them in workshops/watermills.

How do I decide what is best for the great people? Is an academy bad? Why was lightbulbing Philosophy a bad play (can great scientists even choose what techs to lightbulb?)
See here for predicting what great people will bulb:

Also, it looks like you're playing with the BUG mod, and it shows the bulbs on the left side of the tech tree screen. Next to each great person icon, the first tech icon shows what it would bulb now, and the 2nd shows what it would bulb if you research every tech you have queued up.

For a science victory plan, an academy in the capital is a must and you might has well use your first great scientist for that (since then you get its effect for the longest time possible). The philosophy bulb is good otherwise because it is on the path to liberalism and unlocks a civic that accelerates the next great people (pacifism, if you use it).

Do I just let my cities grow into unhappiness/unhealthiness until it's time to build something? My perfectionist side feels kind of weird about that. Wouldn't that be a waste of population?
It's correct, if you are waiting to unlock something you want to build right away, be it military or infrastructure. However, in a science victory game (unlike other victories) you are in for the long run and will build a lot of buildings eventually, so it's good to get a headstart on that, as long as you build in the right order. The granary is usually the first building in most cities to speed up growth, then maybe a lighthouse if it's coast. Any future production city (e.g. a city to be covered in workshops / watermills for state property) should build the forge soon after that if available, because then it makes all other builds cheaper. It also helps with happiness problems. Harbor is cheap for Washington due to expansive trait, but generally the health buildings (Grocer / Harbor / Aqueduct) wait until after factories when health really starts to be an issue.

Also another question I had: I should probably get into trading techs right? I haven't been doing that (or any diplomatic stuff at all for that matter) this game. Which techs should I prioritize trading? (I kind of answered this question myself, elizabeth and alexander are both willing to trade hunting I guess)

Yes, you should trade for techs you need, and if the AIs have accumulated some gold (check the foreign advisor under techs), you can sell old techs to them to accumulate gold to run the slider at 100% research longer. Just don't trade your latest techs or some that will unlock units you don't want your future war target to have. If you trade a tech for gold, it's better to trade it to other AIs on the same turn or the next one, since otherwise they might trade it with each other and you lose potential benefit.

Trading to the AIs an old tech for cheap, or just giving it to them, also is one of the easiest way to build positive relationships (it will display up to +4 "Our trade relations have been fair", and by 'fair' they really means strongly in their favor).
 
Generally these are cities with a lot of green land that you can convert into workshops and watermills in preparation for state property.
Does this mean I get rid of all the cottages I spent so many turns growing? How do I make up for the lost commerce?
 
I agree with @jorissimo with the priority techs for space. Communism (state property) is the game changing tech economically, and the great spy you get can be used to trigger a golden age so you can do some civic switches. After Communism, Steam Power speeds up workers (helps with the workshop spamming) and unlocks levees, then Assembly Line for factories, Steel for Ironworks, Industrialization to see aluminum (needed to speed up most space projects), then all the way to Superconductors for laboratories. Only then when you have all the pieces (production buildings, aluminum, labs) does it make sense to go to Rocketry and start building space parts.

There is a good post here by Fish Man about the tech priority for space:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nobles-club-246-isabella-of-spain.660786/page-2#post-15850840

He prioritizes Plastics after Industrialization for Three Gorges Dam, but that assumes you can build that quickly, otherwise you would just have coal plants and deal with the unhappiness (Washington's bonus health from Expansive helps with that). I'm also not sure I would research railroad as early as he does.
 
Does this mean I get rid of all the cottages I spent so many turns growing? How do I make up for the lost commerce?

The capital stays on commerce, and other cities with enough towns and a library and university could as well. But your newer cities (settled or conquered) might have good land that wasn't developed into villages/towns yet.

In the science endgame a lot of your commerce is replaced by building wealth or research in the production towns. (Build wealth in enough cities to get slider to 100%, then research.) It benefits from all your production multipliers, but not from the science or gold multipliers.

See here for a calculation of how workshops create more science than almost everything except a riverside town (if you're not financial):
 
Of your new city sites, I would only settle the clam / horse / wheat. The best plan to get more cities (science tends to be slow unless you have 15-20 good ones at least) would be to take the best workshoppable sites from your neighbors.
 
Got it. So here?

I feel like these cities are just so-so, since they have their food in the second ring (the fourth one doesn't even have food). Will this be enough for the rest of the game? How many cities should I have at each point in the game?
Also would I be building a monument first in these cities?


How do I decide what is best for the great people? Is an academy bad? Why was lightbulbing Philosophy a bad play (can great scientists even choose what techs to lightbulb?)


Do I just let my cities grow into unhappiness/unhealthiness until it's time to build something? My perfectionist side feels kind of weird about that. Wouldn't that be a waste of population?

Also another question I had: I should probably get into trading techs right? I haven't been doing that (or any diplomatic stuff at all for that matter) this game. Which techs should I prioritize trading? (I kind of answered this question myself, elizabeth and alexander are both willing to trade hunting I guess)
I should correct myself, that pig city can't go there because of the English city that wasn't visible on the screenshot. Those foodless cities on grassland you should leave for when you have Communism as then they can become quite strong, if you haven't gone to war before that. Also I think there is some misunderstanding about the first ring thing, because you seem really hung up on it. Food being first or second ring doesn't change the yield, the only thing is that those cities take longer to set up in the early game because you need a monument. However, this is not the early game and the horse clam city already has food that is currently within your borders.
 
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