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Nobles' Club Bullpen: Fourth Cycle


May 9, 2006
Kingston, Ontario
dalamb submitted a new resource:

Nobles' Club Bullpen: Fourth Cycle - Nobles' Club Bullpen: Fourth Cycle

Welcome to the Nobles' Club, the fourth time around. Having finished all the leaders (except Sid) in the third round, we're starting again. This thread is for discussing the series as a whole and planning which leaders to do when, and these first few messages are for summarizing what has happened so far and the way NC operates; they will get edited as needed.

The purpose of the club, from the boilerplate:
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below)...

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For anyone creating maps and posting game threads, here's the most recent version of the boilerplate (last changed 2 Nov 2014). To fill in image links for the various leaders, UUs, and UBs, you can use what I have on my Photobucket account.
Spoiler boilerplate :
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Leader of Civ, whom we last played in NC num; we last played the Civs under Leader in NC num. The Civs start with tech1 and tech2.
IMG link for leader
  • Traits: Leader is trait1 and trait2.
  • The UB: The UB, a base building with improvement.
    IMG link for UB
  • The UU: The UU, a base unit with improvement.
    IMG link for UU
And the start:
IMG link for starting position
Spoiler map details :
What map script and options were used.
Spoiler edits :
What edits were made.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
  • continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC number Leader Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

Bullpen from the first cycle.
Spoiler Leaders from the first cycle :
  • Nobles Club I, Elizabeth. FIN and PHI are traits that are fairly easy to play.
  • Nobles Club II, Ramesses II. SPI/IND, another set of great traits, on a Continents map.
  • Nobles Club III, Kublai Khan. CRE/AGG, Pangaea Map, great UU for a Conquest/Domination situation.
  • Nobles Club IV, Frederick. Map unknown. but an attempt to try and learn to play an SE with a strong leader for that style.
  • Nobles Club V, Hannibal. A water based map with a very strong leader on that type of map. Trade Route Economy learner.
  • Nobles Club VI, Brennus. Another "war oriented" type of game, with Aggressive AI setting turned on, and a Civ with solid warmongering traits and UU/UB.
  • Nobles Club VII, Sitting Bull. Who is the AI that makes you groan the most when he pops up? For me, its no contest, SB takes it by a mile!
  • Nobles Club VIII, De Gaulle. A flexible leader suited for war or building, on a Pangaea map!
  • Nobles Club IX - Joao II! OK guys, here it is, another water leader with a solid UU. I requested some special features this map, but I dont want to give away too much. I will tell you that rolo used the new Tectonics format, but he assures me we will be able to have both some Barb lands and AIs that arent reachable pre-Optics.
  • Nobles Club X - Zara Yaqob! Our leader = Zara has an excellent combo of traits, both of which aid in one of this games primary goal, grabbing land. His starting techs arent bad either, although unless you start with deer, you need food to get some food techs going:
  • Nobles Club XI - Catherine! A known backstabber, Catherine has traits that truly excel when REXing. CRE means fast border pops and IMP means fast settlers. But beware, overexpansion is a very real possibility in the hands of the human player.
  • Noble's Club XII-Elizabeth Revisited! Alright so a bunch of us (me (Krick19) included) thought Elizabeth would be a great leader to take us to the next level. So she's back and badder than ever! Her traits are great, FIN and PHI, two of my faves. This calls for a great hybrid economy. Her UU, the Redcoat gets a 25% bonus against Gunpowder Units, which is really helpful when you're attacking muskets or rifles. Lastly the UB is a Bank with 65% more income instead of 50%. This combines for a nasty combo.
  • Noble's Club XIII - Alexander of Greece Hello everybody, TMIT takes a break from messing with AI XMLs to present the 13th installment of the Noble's Club series! Our leader is Aggressive and Philosophical. This match of traits allows for some economy (especially early) and some warmongering!
  • NC XIV - Saladin of Arabia Sal is considered by many to be a weak leader, lending mostly to his protective trait. Nevertheless, he boasts a solid, early UB that allows for some culture control and religious manipulation via great prophets...only Egypt can get them this easily other than Arabia! The UU is a knight that does not require Iron, and with a hefty bonus to its withdrawal chance, making medieval combat a little more intriguing.
  • Noble's Club XV: Roosevelt of America America...America. We bestow questionable UUs and UBs on thee. Nonetheless, the collection of leaders for this civ have strong traits, and the starting techs are nice and allow for versatility also. Our leader today is known for wonderspam and for the fact that he is probably the fastest person to get the Great Lighthouse in the game.
  • Noble's Club XVI - Shaka We all know him. Some probably hate him. Tied with 3 other AIs for the most probability to train units, Shaka is a devastating warmonger that declares at pleased. The Impi is a utility troop and is a little difficult to use against targets with metal, but if an opponent lacks it has all the devastating power of traditional mounted troop charges. The UB is among the top in the game, early maintenance reduction in a barracks that coupled with the courthouse is nearly as strong a total effect as Holy Rome's.
  • Noble's Club XVII - Tokugawa One of the game's biggest one-trick ponies, Toku is all military and no economy. Unless, of course, you count having more cities as economy. The UU is fairly strong if you get there in time, the UB is not that strong in my opinion but hey, at least you're guaranteed to have full advantage if you get infantry. Not that you'll need the help with the game's best gunpowder troops.
  • NC XVIII: Willem This time we are using: THE NETHERLANDS! Many will argue he's a top leader on a water map due to the UB. I personally think the UB is good but far from great, because it comes later. However, it has the potential to shine on a map like this. Combine it with Moai for some true abuse. The UU is a bit cooler, since it's more cost-effective to invade. Good hunting!
  • NC XIX: Napoleon This time we are using: France. With the little general. UB isn't the worst thing ever, just close. The UU IMO is underrated, as are units with >1 move in general. Musket smackdown! How fast can YOU get to gunpowder?!
  • NC XX: Montezuma Whip till you bleed! It's everyone's favorite zealous backstabbing #2 tier (as an AI) warmonger, Montezuma! The UU is a niche unit but quite useful potentially. The UB? One of the best in the game. It's borderline unlimited whips.
  • NC XXI: Ragnar Rangar, everyones favorite wannabe Horn Get ready for some intercontinental delivery of pain. UU is a Maceman with added city attack and free amphibious, perfect for building an medival coastal empire, UB is a Lighthouse which makes your ships faster.
  • NX XXII: Suleiman: Silly Man! It's been gone over in recent times, but the Ottomans are among the most well-rounded civs in the game. Silly Man gets less of the spotlight than the dreaded Mehmed, but is actually a top flight leader with powerful expansion and power tech traits!
  • NC XXIII: Hatsheput: Hatsheput. When there are discussions for "best leader in the game", Hatty rarely sees #1. Ask people for their top 5? Suddenly, it's different. The better warmonger of Egypt's starting two, Hatty can set the tone with war chariots, fast expansion and great people, and flexibility. Others rate her looks, but this isn't the place for that .
  • NC XXIV Wang Kon: Wang Kon of Korea is the leader of the day. Usually when played by the AI he's a weakling which nevertheless manages to have a lot of friends, due to his Religion, and able to keep up in tech even when pitifully small.
  • NC XXV Cyrus: okay ... next NC, this time with Cyrus, Usually seen as the more warmongering of the persian leaders, whereas Darius is more of a economic jugganaut ... Cyrus is able to both get many big cities early on due to his faster settlers and +1 happiness, or if the map lets you, get a big, fast promoted, army and clean out any enemies close by.
  • NC XXVI Pacal: Your UU is a resource-less spear, the UB is the quite-good ball court. Try to use the UU for anti-barbs (and fogbust enough to avoid seeing axes), and the UB can allow for an early elephant/cat war to be more appealing if you want to go that route.
  • NC XXVII Charlemagne
  • NC XXVIII Gandhi:Gandhi is considered by many the weaker of the two Indian leaders. His traits: PHI allows for early great people, while SPI is asking for civic abuse. All in all his traits lend to a specialist heavy warring game, while bulbing key techs. Our starting techs are Mysticism and Mining.
  • NC XXIX Stalin: "If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves." Joseph Stalin.
    Stalin is both aggressive and industrious. He is also the only aggressive leader to start with mining, giving possible early access to BW. The other Russian starting tech is Hunting.
  • NC XXX Boudica: The Celtic UU, Gallic Warrior, is a swordsman who starts with Guerrilla I; you need Iron Working, but only copper (or iron) to build them. The UB, the Dun, is a wall that grants Guerrilla I to units built in the city -- but only Archery, Recon, and Gunpowder units qualify. It seemed to me her civilization's UU and UB would both work better on a Highlands map, which tends to have more hills. Standard size, Temperate. Mountains form ridgelines with normal peaks (both default), and lakes are large. Because there is less water than on some other map types, there are 7 opponents instead of 6.
  • NC XXXI: Charlemagne: The burger king is all over your face.
  • NC XXXII: Louis XIV: Guy? Girl? Bad hair? Sniveling backstabber/culture whore? You decide.
  • NC XXXIII: Washington: He doesn't tell lies and doesn't take prisoners. He charismatically grows his healthy cities and liberates them from the incompetents who don't follow his model.
  • NC XXXIV: Pericles: Eek, more GREEK...CULTURE! A lot of facial hair and even more helmet makes for a balanced leader. Put on your armor and join the fray.
  • NC XXXV with Julius Caesar: THE leader of the Romans is the better warmonger of the two, and very dynamic. He can pound out 2-3 opponents on any level below deity with prats alone (and can probably take down 1-2 on deity if they're softer targets). If he doesn't have neighbors, he can set his cities up cheaply and quickly and has the means to pay for them. You don't get a top UB, but you can't have everything, unless you take it with prats ;).
  • NC XXXVI Gilgamesh
  • NC XXXVII: Victoria: Combining expansion speed with long term commerce potential just got easier. Milk the overrated UU best you can, but use the traits to carry.
  • NC XXXVIII:Ghengis Khan: The Keshik tornado returns after a long time off in the Noble's Club.
  • Nobles club XXXIX - Asoka: Asoka greets the NC, with balance traits and a UU that never gets old. The UB is less known but can be nice if going for a mid-game espionage push or planning a big war.
  • NC XL Mehmed II: One of the game's most balanced leaders takes on a fantastic start on the big and small map script, which TMIT personally dislikes about as much as archipelago. Mehmed's traits and uniques leave most strategies open...so "play the map" :p.
  • NC XLI Lincoln: America is back! Use your fishing tech to your advantage as this time you are swimming early.
  • NC XLII with Qin
  • NCXLIII: Bismarck
  • NC XLIV Darius I
  • NC XLV Zara Yaqob
  • [NC XLVI Isabella
  • NC XLVII Mansa
  • NC XLVIII, Suryavarman
  • NC XLIX Churchill
  • NC L Augustus
  • NC LI Mao
  • NC LII Hammurabi
  • NC LIII Justinian
  • NC LIV Peter
  • NC LV Huayna
Bullpen from the second cycle.
Spoiler Leaders from the second cycle :
Bullpen from the third cycle.
Spoiler Leaders from the third cycle :
The full set of maps is available in a set of three .7z files provided by Kjotleik here.
Nobles' Club maps should have certain characteristics that are good for helping beginning players, without being so heavily edited that they become completely uncharacteristic of "normal" maps.
Spoiler guidelines :
A poll in September 2012 established the following as desirable or highly desirable edits; all others considered at the time were undesirable:
  • Ensure there are some hills in the starting location BFC.
  • Ensure there is fresh water (river or lake) adjacent to the starting location.
  • Ensure the UU resource is reasonably nearby, within range of a 2nd or 3rd city.
  • Ensure each AI has some strategic resource reasonably nearby, so it isn't a pushover.
Spoiler editing worldbuilder save files :
Here are the edits to turn a regular WB save file into something playable for a map series game. This presumes you created a Noble game to start with (to get the mimimal set of AI techs), with huts and events turned on. It also assumes your player's civilization is the first one and that you are leaving the "teams" defaulted to one per player/AI.
  • Find "Speed=xxx" and change "xxx" to "NONE".
  • Find "MaxTurns=xxx" and change "xxx" to "0".
  • Find all occurrences of "PlayableCiv=1" after the first and change the 1 to 0. This avoids giving the player the option of selecting what should be AI civilizations.
  • Delete all BeginUnit/EndUnit blocks except those with "UnitOwner=0". This is critical to allow AIs to get their appropriate units at higher difficulties while leaving the player's units in the same spots as the initial screen shots.
  • Delete all lines saying "Handicap=". This lets the AI handicap vary by level.
  • Save the results as the "noble/huts/events" save file.
  • Add "Tech=TECH_ARCHERY" to all teams except TeamID=0 (the player's team). Save the results as the "monarch/huts/events" save file.
  • Repeate for TECH_HUNTING (emperor), TECH_AGRICULTURE (immortal), and TECH_THE_WHEEL (deity). I always avoid dulicates if the civ already has the tech but it may be harmless.
To get the no huts / no events save files, copy each huts/events save and do the following:
  • Find all occurrences of "ImprovementType=IMPROVEMENT_GOODY_HUT" and change them to blank (or delete the lines they're on).
  • Near the start of the file, after the Speed line add a new line with "(tab)Option=GAMEOPTION_NO_EVENTS"
I have attached will eventually attach the Emacs macros I use for editing WB files and tijup's Unix scripts, which he explains in the third cycle bullpen thread.
Spoiler Emacs instructions :
These will only make sense if you already use Emacs:
  1. M-x civ-noble-edit, then save as NC nnn Noble Huts
  2. For each tech (archery, etc), do M-x civ-add-tech followed by the exact text that goes after the Tech= in the team descriptions (TECH_ARCHERY etc.) Save as NC nnn Monarch Huts etc.
  3. Reload each file, M-x civ-no-event-huts, save as NC nnn Noble, NC nnn Monarch, etc.
Could somebody post a zip file(s) of all the rounds? I know it would be alot of work but it would be really nice to have it collected in one place and post it here. Im going to get back into civ iv i think :)
Suggesting Gandhi-Zara-Vicky-Stalin-Washington-Saladin as first round. All traits included, Sal repeats Spi from first game, otherwise no repeats. English, Russians and Americans have three leaders each. With one out of the way early, they won't cluster toward the end. I put Washington last of them as there was a Lincoln game quite recently.
Thanks! It's really nice to have somebody do my work for me, especially when I'm swamped, as I am until mid-January. I do want to prepare Gandhi's map myself, but as usual it would be nice for people to volunteer for the rest. There is no issue with repeating SPI; with 11 traits any 6-leader round has to replicate something. We can try to avoid SPI in round 2 to even things out.

@i_imperator: I have a partial .zip I will try to update soon. It in turn is an update of something another NC participant created, so s/he might beat me to it. I'll add it to the 5th message so it's relatively easy to find.
@dalamb Attached is a zip of the first round from one of amao's posts on the second bullpen. It would be great if we could do that for all of the rounds.

Edit: and yes those are the saves for the first round.


  • Nobles Club.rar
    1.7 MB · Views: 274
  • Nobles Club.zip
    1.8 MB · Views: 401
I think separating them into 3 different zips for each cycle is best, Im not sure how to approach the different difficulty levels however.
Dalamb - This guide is very useful for lotsa stuff:

Screw Thy Neighbor

Lincoln, Darius and Hatty come to mind..basically anyone who can't plot at Pleased and look for high Peace Weights/Low Unit Probs. Surprisingly, Mansa CAN plot at Pleased, but has one of the highest Peace Weights.
I think separating them into 3 different zips for each cycle is best, Im not sure how to approach the different difficulty levels however.

Something like this?

Yours Sincerely
Kjotleik of Norway :)


  • Nobles Club Round Two (56-107).7z
    4.6 MB · Views: 319
  • Nobles Club Round Three (108-159).7z
    5.5 MB · Views: 358
  • Nobles Club Round One (1-55).7z
    1.7 MB · Views: 335
I Have Some Extra Time On My Hands Right Now, and would like to make a map. Is it ok if I use Cathy instead of Stalin to get one of the Russian leaders out of the way? I have a special type of start in mind, which is best suited for Cathy (but the map will be either only slightly edited, or maybe even not edited at all, except for the normal nobles club edits (strat resources etc)).

Is there some minimum amount of time which should pass between new nobles club maps?

Edit: I missed NZ's post, are you already working on Stalin?
Maps come out every two weeks so next one is due in a week. Haven't started mine but Dalamb likes to keep traits mixed up so best wait for his OK. On the other hand not many volunteers this time so I don't think changing will be a big issue.
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