Nobles' Club Bullpen: Fourth Cycle

[elementoffear]

I have created a new map with Lincoln. Decided to go for a Lakes map as I am playing game 1 of the XX challenge a lot lately.
Not much experience in map making, hope this one turns out OK

I will generate the various WB files and put up a new thread shortly.

edit: the thread is up!

Thank you @mscellaneous !! that was quick

 

[Gumbolt]

So next game? Maybe Elite can be inspired on his return here?

 

[krikav]

I get the feeling that it's time for another NC game as well!
I really enjoyed the Lincoln game, not sure if it was the lakes script or if it was just the map that was good.

 

[krikav]

[...] My map making skills have never really been tested.

Perhaps it's time to test them?
Gilgamesh is scheduled next.

 

[krikav]

I also quite like lakes. You have quite a lot of land borders with different civs, compared to pangaea style maps (and especially compared to inland seas), but the presence of the larger lakes/seas still gives clear choke points and defensive lines (compared to, say, great plains). On a pangaea, you might have a runaway civ at the other end of the continent and it is difficult to get there, on inland sea those are usually at bit closer.

Yes, this probably have alot to do with it.
I also like Inland Sea, however that usually limits the number of neighbours you have to two, which can be problematic.

 

[elitetroops]

Go ahead and make a game @Gumbolt! It's not really about map making, just map picking. You're not really supposed to edit the maps, apart from maybe checking some strategic resources. There's a reroll map button available in worldbuilder, use that until you see a layout you like, then follow instructions on first page of this thread to make WB saves. Just make sure you roll the initial map on noble with no special options selected (=barbs and huts ON).

 

[krikav]

I think I have managed to create a map.
Did try to adhere to the guidelines and I did use the script provided. Now for the difficult part... making a post with the relevant boilerplate.

 

[elementoffear]

I think I have managed to create a map.
Did try to adhere to the guidelines and I did use the script provided. Now for the difficult part... making a post with the relevant boilerplate.

Thank you @krikav for the map, just posting the link here in case people are watching the bullpen : https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/nobles-club-197-gilgamesh-of-sumeria.637039/ and not aware of the post

 

[krikav]

I'm thinking I should create a game this weekend.
Next game will be either Joao (Imp/Exp) or Ramesses II (Spi/Ind).
After that we will do the other guy and for our 200 anniversary we will play Wilhelm.

Any preferences for which leader we should do first?
Any suggestions for map script?
Do you want BFC stone? Any special AI you really hate and want in the game so you can attack them?
Any other ideas, wishes or suggestions?

We have a few new Noble players that are getting active on the forum and it would be nice if we had a bunch of experienced players that joined in for the fun, so they have alot to compare with.
But for that to happen, it needs to be fun.
Shout out want you want to play!

 

[elementoffear]

I'm thinking I should create a game this weekend.
Next game will be either Joao (Imp/Exp) or Ramesses II (Spi/Ind).
After that we will do the other guy and for our 200 anniversary we will play Wilhelm.

Any preferences for which leader we should do first?
Any suggestions for map script?
Do you want BFC stone? Any special AI you really hate and want in the game so you can attack them?
Any other ideas, wishes or suggestions?

We have a few new Noble players that are getting active on the forum and it would be nice if we had a bunch of experienced players that joined in for the fun, so they have alot to compare with.
But for that to happen, it needs to be fun.
Shout out want you want to play!

Hi @krikav , thank you for the initiative. I personally don't have any preference, but I will mention again I hope this community can set up a "live" event online somehow where people can follow a live game and ask questions (maybe on twitch?) . I think it will be a great new type of experience, can help new players more than watching "lets play" videos. Maybe the 200 game will be a good opportunity for this?

 

[Smilingrogue]

Throwing my hat in to play the next NC.
Either of the leaders should be fine, but would like to see a map that uses Portuguese UU and UB to a certain extent.
Ramesses can go so many ways - WW economy, WC rush, interesting Eng bulbs from cheap forges. Excuse me while I wipe the drool off my face.

 

[krikav]

Throwing my hat in to play the next NC.
Either of the leaders should be fine, but would like to see a map that uses Portuguese UU and UB to a certain extent.
Ramesses can go so many ways - WW economy, WC rush, interesting Eng bulbs from cheap forges. Excuse me while I wipe the drool off my face.

Thanks for the feedback!
There is a map script where you have one "old world", which is basically a pangea, and then you have an empty continent thats ripe for settling? That could have historical undertones that could be really fun!
The Carrack should give a nice head start in such a setting.
But how to make the AI be in on the race to settle the new continent?

Apart from that, I'm not sure how to tailor a map to make sure the UU comes into play.

As for the feitoria, I guess any watery map would fit. Perhaps a start where GLH is an option would make it even more interesting.

 

[Smilingrogue]

There is a map script where you have one "old world", which is basically a pangea, and then you have an empty continent thats ripe for settling? That could have historical undertones that could be really fun!

Terra almost always ends up being played out like a Pangaea map. The game is quite likely decided before the new world is settled, but could make for a fun romp if the new world does come into play.
Continents, Archippelago, Islands, Hemispheres are map ideas to consider for the UU. As for the UB, I think it's OK if the map is not perfect for it, it does unlock at Economics, which is way too far in the game to consider when weighing map choices.
Ultimately as the host, choose what you feel is best.

 

[krikav]

NC 198 Joao Is up! Have fun!

 

[ArchGhost]

So the next leader is scheduled is Rameses right?

I have an idea for consideration

NC 195 Asoka saw us placed in a world full of crazies: Cathy, Shaka, Ragnar, Kublai, Qin and Sury. A field that was so much a powder keg that nobody was safe from anybody! I had a lot of fun with this one fearing the looming Shaka (which Pedro chastised about, informative!) and being mindful of the diplomatic waters while trying to play.

For a peaceful builder-type leader this time, again with SPI, how about a field of like-minded Religious seekers and wonder builders? Personally I find blocs of chummy love-fest AIs to be more difficult to manage as it's really hard to stir things up unlike with a mixed field or one full of backstabbers, and they help each other tech like mad, presenting a different challenge.

If the idea with Rameses is to either push players towards a more peaceful game, perhaps toward non-violent means (Culture/Diplo), a field of opponents like this would introduce more competition for wonders (esp. if like the NC195 game nearly everybody has building resources), faster teching among the blocs sure to form, more work to achieve Diplo, and if the religions spread more evenly, even peril from zealots like Izzy.

Or it could just turn into a slaughter-fest with Egypt's UU with such a squishy field. It depends on what one would think is more helpful to players to learn, or what would be more fun to push the player toward, but that one is easily manipulable with resource editing/start location picks.

I feel like I'm overlooking something obvious but what do you think?

 

[krikav]

I agree with the notion that it's easier to just cruise along if different blocks of hatred are forming. If everyone is everyones best friend then it can be problematic to start stir up problems.
However, if there is enough land, then it's just a matter of getting to say steel/rifling and just roll over all the others.
But in a cramped situation peace and order between the AIs are a nightmare situation to me. The lack of chaos doesn't open up much possibilities.

I didn't play the asoka game. (Abit uncomfortable with SPI tbh).
I know SPI is used for diplo, and that it's common to switch in and out of caste and other tricks, but I lack all personal experience with it. Whenever I play a spi leader I usually forget it, and end up waiting for a GA to change civics etc. >_<
I would like to have conditions in place to practice SPI and become more comfortable with it, but how to tailor the map for this?

Just a minor minor point. With all other things equal, I do like a connection to history. So if pyramids come into play I think that is a plus in my book.

 

[ArchGhost]

know SPI is used for diplo, and that it's common to switch in and out of caste and other tricks, but I lack all personal experience with it. Whenever I play a spi leader I usually forget it, and end up waiting for a GA to change civics etc. >_<
I would like to have conditions in place to practice SPI and become more comfortable with it, but how to tailor the map for this?

Honestly that's where it came in handy, in the Asoka game's kind of set up. The field could all declare all Pleased, and with Cathy's crazy ass able to stab anybody at any time treading the diplomatic lines is a great use of SPI to try to prevent situations like I think dutchfire had where they just pile in one after another after a regular DoW.

Not too hot on SPI, other than diplo uses I find it's quite easy to get by without it or deal with fewer anarchy swaps anyway.

There are cool upgrading tricks you can do with SPI leader and GMs. The player kinda has to choose to do it though.

Mids is a good way to showcase SPI as Rep is natural pair with Caste; IND trait does this nicely but resource distribution is a consideration. The hurdle is getting them to think to go for CoL faster than just as a prereq for CS/Philo. I'm not saying having access to both marble/stone is warranted, but one or the other is an option to think about. In any case, you really couldn't choose a better leader to try to get players to at least consider Mids.

Later US without Democracy can be a boon with a fast Communism (to sit in Caste) or Assembly Line (buying factories). Both these are later than just pushing Steel or Rifles as you note. It is a conundrum to inspire later SPI swapping I feel.

The other thing is Egypt's strong UU is much more an incentive to play a different way and if horse is readily available it will obviously push toward that option instead or at least leave the option open for our more aggressive players. Lacking horse would be a way to "fix" this and would also discourage the player like me whose first preference is usually Cuirs from forcing that :S Not sure if that's against the NC spirit or not, I've yet to figure out whether they are supposed to showcase leader's specifics or just be easier than random games.




Anyway, ideas:
-uniform or nearly uniform opponent field should stress diplo a bit more
-pyramids incentive is good for SPI
-oracle as IND also considerable (for CoL or MC > IND forges)
-limit or allow horse? not sure how to swing on this one

hopefully someone with more experience with how to tailor the map chimes in. I kinda hate that

Spoiler :

the Joao ideas were ruined by the way Terra works after I saw you were trying to utilize them.

I also got inspired and randomed a map with Rameses as pick and got this 1st roll :

Spoiler :

Are you kidding me?

 

[krikav]

That map obviously doesn't work. No BFC gold is a nono!

I have seen NC as the forum to showcase traits, UUs and UBs. With other map-specific themes mixed in.
The map should be close to average imo, but if it fits into the leaders trait or UU/UB, then the map will be easier, not because of the map in itself, but because it fits the leader/civ.

Last 5 games I have played, I havn't had horses for cuirs. Only exception was the latest NC game, but there I played with other goals in mind.
So personally, I wouldn't mind horses.

Have to think abit more, and it would be nice if other members also chimed in. It's best if NC continues to develop with the community, rather than to stagnate.

 

[Fish Man]

So the next leader is scheduled is Rameses right?

I have an idea for consideration

NC 195 Asoka saw us placed in a world full of crazies: Cathy, Shaka, Ragnar, Kublai, Qin and Sury. A field that was so much a powder keg that nobody was safe from anybody! I had a lot of fun with this one fearing the looming Shaka (which Pedro chastised about, informative!) and being mindful of the diplomatic waters while trying to play.

For a peaceful builder-type leader this time, again with SPI, how about a field of like-minded Religious seekers and wonder builders? Personally I find blocs of chummy love-fest AIs to be more difficult to manage as it's really hard to stir things up unlike with a mixed field or one full of backstabbers, and they help each other tech like mad, presenting a different challenge.

If the idea with Rameses is to either push players towards a more peaceful game, perhaps toward non-violent means (Culture/Diplo), a field of opponents like this would introduce more competition for wonders (esp. if like the NC195 game nearly everybody has building resources), faster teching among the blocs sure to form, more work to achieve Diplo, and if the religions spread more evenly, even peril from zealots like Izzy.

Or it could just turn into a slaughter-fest with Egypt's UU with such a squishy field. It depends on what one would think is more helpful to players to learn, or what would be more fun to push the player toward, but that one is easily manipulable with resource editing/start location picks.

I feel like I'm overlooking something obvious but what do you think?

Rameses? How convenient, I rolled a pretty awesome fantasy realm map for him a bit back. Is that map type allowed for NC? If so I could try to make the WB files for it, would be a unique experience for everyone involved!

 

[krikav]

Rameses? How convenient, I rolled a pretty awesome fantasy realm map for him a bit back. Is that map type allowed for NC? If so I could try to make the WB files for it, would be a unique experience for everyone involved!

I don't think there is any explicit rule against that. (Are there any rules at all?) but if I look at the NC games in the first cycle (and to a lesser extent second cycle) there are such offbeat map scripts mixed in every now and then.
In general, the reception has been poor. People have been reluctant to participate in something that is too far from the normal.
(This is also my personal reaction too.)
Right now, there could be potential though, some experienced players seem to have tried it out, and Lain did a letsplay with fantasy realm recently.

For the WB file creation scripts to run smoothly, I think you have to start with a Noble difficulty map with huts turned on. Not that sure it's possible to transform a no-huts diety save to that form. If you do find a way I want to know how though. Since it would be nice to make a few of the Lain-games accessable to lower level difficulty players.

I'm not really satisfied though, I felt really good about the Joao map, but here I'm less confident.
But this is the current candidate map I'm leaning towards with Rameses:

Spoiler Starting screenshot :

Spoiler Map script :

Pangea, normal size, nothing out of the ordinary

Spoiler Spoilery details :

Almost only warmongerers with similar peaceweights, reasonable access to horses, neighbour with access to stone.