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Nomadic Devourer Civilisation for Erebus - Panivo

Discussion in 'FfH2 Modmods, Scenarios, and Maps' started by Lplate, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    I'm updating the version in the first post of this thread to 0.5.

    Changes:

    xml
    The Hero Slitinn has been added.
    The xml for the world spell has been added but the python isn't there to back it up yet.
    Relocate and OnSeason spells have been amended to city castable spells.

    python
    onBeginPlayerTurn code added to give chance for features/terrain to degrade when Slitinnn is there and he's outside the Panivo borders.
    spellPanivo amended. I've improved the chances of successfully navigating the maze based on the number of Dimensional Mana bonuses the Panivo have.
    OnCityAcquired amended to remove the automatic setting to settlement as the player gets to decide immediately after this anyway. Ghettos in cities the Panivo conquer are destroyed and if there was one present the population is only reduced to 2, not 1.
    OnBeginTurn amended to correct the chance of terrain degradation when going from Initial Exploitation to Dormant from 100% to 10%.
     
  2. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    I haven't been experiencing any crashes or other bugs so far, so thought you should know.

    The 'pedia entries will need to be fleshed out, but you already know that, of course.

    As far as gameplay goes, so far I've only been building cities rather than settlements, so I haven't seen how the Relocate spell operates in practice. I guess it will take some trial and error to figure out the right mix of cities and settlements. I'll probably build a settlement soon and Relocate a city, just to see what happens.

    More feedback when I have some.
     
  3. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    That's good to know for a start.:)

    The core elements for the civilization are set up now, so I'll take a look at fleshing out some of the information - giving a bit more strategy. I'll probably hold off doing more of the little functionality tweaks for a while.

    Relocating is one of the central aspects of the "nomadic" civilization.
    In order to develop the trading camps to improved values, you need to relocate to a nearby city.
    Exploited terrain will only recover when not in the fat cross of an on-season city. Exploiting can help you pump out a settler or diaspora quickly but if you don't move ultimately it will be crippling the growth of your city. If using Conquest, exploitation can help in the pumping out of troops.
    Relocating should also make your citizens happy (for a while).

    One city set up that I found makes sense for them is to position the cities with the minimum two tiles between them. Position either the trader's camps or production, e.g. mines on the overlapping fat cross tiles. Keep the exploited land dedicated to each individual city. Bouncing between the two cities, should keep both the trading camp/production and exploitation benefits maximised.

    Watch out for leaving an on-season city for too long. A combo of the Frozen's climate and exploitation reduced the food production around one on-season city, so that the population went to 1 at one stage of my test game. Relocate requires a minimum population of 2, so the city was stuck until I had a forager exploit a new tile to give them a population boost.

    Another use for the relocation is to culturally push your borders. You can relocate a few culture generating buildings immediately into a new city on a border allowing you to quickly gain ground from your opponent. Combining this with the Ghetto should make the Panivo good at expanding their cultural borders.

    There is a slight bug in that captured workers/slaves still allow you to build farms/pastures. I've avoided doing this to see if the intended growth model can work. Ultimately, I'll put something in to stop the slaves/workers doing this - If you do have farms, etc dotted over the landscape, one of the incentives for relocating is gone.

    One thing to remember after relocating is to set the production in the city you've relocated to. I haven't done this automatically as the city could have hammers built up for a unit or a non-mobile building other than the mobile building that was being built in the casting city. I might look at including further pop-ups as a reminder to deal with this in the future.

    thanks for trying it.
     
  4. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    You can fix the worker/slave bug by making an autoacquire promotion for all workers/slaves that removes those build orders (check the D'teshi worker promotion for an example).
     
  5. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    I know it will take some trial and error and playing around to figure out the right mix of cities and settlements and also when to Relocate. Incidentally, it would be helpful if the 'pedia entry for the Relocate spell specified which buildings move and which one's don't, just to help planning.

    One very minor thing (I thought of this when you mentioned captured workers/slaves being able to build farms and pastures). I got the event where you come across an isolated group of Elves. If you select the first option ("leave them to their fate") you get a Hamlet, which grows the same as a standard Hamlet (Hamlet --> Village --> Town) rather than a Trader's Camp.

    It's hardly decisive or strategic, since you first have to get the event, and then choose the option to create a Hamlet, and it probably won't happen more than once or twice a game. Also, might not be that off as far as flavor: this is an Elven village that happens to be in Panivo territory, rather than a Panivo Trader's Camp, so should function as an Elven village?

    Just wanted to mention it in case you think it merits a change, but strikes me as okay.
     
  6. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    Thanks for the tip Valkrionn.

    On a separate note, what python do you use to say that a city has already cast it's city castable spell that turn?

    I'll specify which buildings and wonders are mobile when I update the pedia.

    I got that event as well when I was playing. It isn't fitting with the Panivo mentality to allow the elves to set up a hamlet. In the early game, the Panivo would have to go with the Smoke tile option. I'll update the event to include a third specific Panivo option for after they get Way of the Wicked; "Elves, in our land? Invite them over for a banquet." This would give a sentient feast in a nearby city. Thanks for taking the time to try it. If you spot any other events that seem out of character let me know. I'll have to do a trawl through all of the events at some stage to see which should have a Panivo specific update.
     
  7. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Misread your question...

    You're asking how to tell a city it's cast, when it hasn't yet? Should be able change city.hascast(). I'll check.

    Edit: Should be able to use code identical to caster.setHasCasted(False). City spells are essentially identical to unit spells, just called by a different object; So replace caster with city.
     
  8. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    Another event that comes to mind is the one where industrious villagers build a pasture. That's from BtS originally, but was kept in FfH. I almost never see it happen, but it should probably be modified if it happens to the Panivo.
     
  9. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    One other thing I noticed: since the Panivo don't build Farms, but instead Exploit the Land, they don't receive the health benefits from Wheat, Corn, or Rice. I don't know if this is intended, but just wanted to point it out.
     
  10. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    It's intended. They hate nature, so they are going to lose some of the health benefits. Rustling should help them share the pain. The Nihilist spell when it's developed will destroy crop bonuses. Lack of health is intended to be a feature for the Panivo. Rather than giving them more buildings (apart from the rings) to deal with this, they'll drag everyone else down to their level. It's worth getting a couple of Coastal cities for fish, clam, etc as they won't be able to overfish.
     
  11. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    I suppose that contributes to limiting the growth of Panivo cities, which makes sense. You don't think of nomads having huge cities.

    Are you planning a Panivo replacement for the Camp, to degrade the same way Culling Fields do? Would seem to be consistent with how the Panivo deal with food resources.
     
  12. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    To give them some chance of having health resources, I was thinking of adding an overhunting event. Essentially a chance to destroy the bonus, where there's a Panivo camp. "Your sensers have slain the last deer near x."

    One possibility is to have the initial exploitation yield whatever bonus is on the tile, that'd normally yielded by a farm/ plantation. The Panivo could get a short health boost this way. The bonuses would be removed when the plot goes dormant.
     
  13. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    The Panivo can't research Omniscience, because it requires Commune with Nature as a prerequisite. And because they can't research Omniscience, they can't get to Future Tech. Maybe allow them to research Commune with Nature but block them from completing Genesis?
     
  14. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    I'm removing the disabling of Commune with Nature but where are Genesis and the other rituals defined? They aren't in BuildingInfos.
     
  15. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Rituals are in ProjectInfos, in XML/GameInfo.
     
  16. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    I've updated to version 0.6 (available in first post in the thread).

    Changes
    xml
    Text file updated to give a better idea of what the Panivo are about
    CivilizationInfos - amended to remove the disabling of Commune with Nature
    ImprovementInfos - amended so that Initial Exploitation can give crop bonuses
    SpellInfos: Rustle, Leave Herd and Salted Earth spells added in spellInfos. World spell python commented out for now to avoid all those debug messages.
    TechInfos: Exploitation made an orprereq for animal husbandry
    PromotionInfos: Rustler and various Herd promotions added. Panivo Worker promotion added to prevent building of farms, etc. Ceridwen's Chosen promotion added for arcane units who navigate the maze.


    python
    onBeginTurn - removes herd/crop bonuses when exploited land/culling field goes to dormant
    spellPanivo: Rustle and LeaveHerd spells added. Enter the Maze amended to give Ceridwens Chosen promotion to arcane units. Salted Earth spell added (without armageddon increase feature)
    eventPanivo: moving great people added to Relocation
    onBeginGameTurn: removed unworking latitude checks. All terrain degradation leads to desert for the moment
     
  17. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    I've removed the disabling of Commune with Nature.

    Looking at the tech tree, I'm considering disabling:
    Horseback Riding
    Stirrups
    Warhorses &
    Armored Cavalry

    All of the above are mounted technologies which are irrelevant for the Panivo. Sailing provides an alternative route to trade instead of horseback riding, so I don't think disabling these will be a problem.
     
  18. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    Horseback Riding allows the Mobility I promotion, which is a prerequisite for the Mobility II promotion. Maybe have all Panivo units start with Mobility I to compensate?
     
  19. Lplate

    Lplate Esus (Allegedly)

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    To me, the mobility 1 & 2 promotions are mainly to reflect a unit's use of mounts/animal drawn vehicles to get them quickly where they are going. Hence, horseback riding is a pre-requisite for mobility 1. All of the Panivo travel on foot and don't use mounts. Those that get the Sidestepper promotion have +1 movement included within this promotion to reflect the use of dimensional shortcuts. I don't think that the extra movement from mobility is also needed. If I need to give another movement boost, I'll probably create a specific promotion with Sidestepper as pre-requisite and which uses a different tech to horseback riding or any of the other mounted techs.
     
  20. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    Playing as a non-Panivo civ (the Khazad in this game, Kuriotates in an earlier one), with the latest Panivo module (version 6) installed, Panivo-specific units and buildings appear in the tech tree. I think normally what you see in the tech tree are units and buildings that your civ can build, not those specific to another civ. Kind of a minor thing, but just wanted to report it.
     

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