NOrth Korea threatens to nullify armistice

[Luckymoose]

"North Koreans" just believe whatever ideological babble their dear leader tells them. I'm a principled non-interventionist but that has nothing to do with the North Koreans who would indeed be better off ruled by pretty much anyone else. A war with NK would, however, make US a heck of a lot less free and a heck of a lot poorer.

You realize we have tons of soldiers in South Korea for the purpose of quickly ending any such war? You realize that any attack on South Korea would be an attack on US soldiers and civilians currently in the country and would in fact be an attack on the United States? We wouldn't be less free or more poor. We'd probably actually get stuff done with a sweeping patriotic political and economic boom.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Anyway, nuclear armageddon anyone?

Naw, ain't gonna happen. I wonder what would happen if Obama did pick up the phone and call Kim Jung Un like Dennis Rodman said he should?

 

[Disgustipated]

You realize we have tons of soldiers in South Korea for the purpose of quickly ending any such war? You realize that any attack on South Korea would be an attack on US soldiers and civilians currently in the country and would in fact be an attack on the United States? We wouldn't be less free or more poor. We'd probably actually get stuff done with a sweeping patriotic political and economic boom.

It would not be a cakewalk. We got our asses handed to us in the first Korean War (yes I know the main reason for that was Chinese intervention) both after the initial attack, and when we came close to conquering all of North Korea (both caused us to retreat many miles).

But the optimist in me says they won't make mistakes they made in the first Korean war, and I believe if we conquer North Korea, we won't have insurgent problems like we had in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I am fearful of a war with North Korea because of the high casualties, but maybe it's better to get it over with and reunite the 2 countries.

 

[Crezth]

The problem with the Korean War was that our army sucked. But it doesn't anymore. So.

 

[Disgustipated]

The problem with the Korean War was that our army sucked. But it doesn't anymore. So.

This may be true. It's actually kind of shocking how far the military fell in 5 years back then. You'd think after WW2, we would have better troops.

 

[Crezth]

I don't know the full details, but it was the product of some reforms that came with demobilization and went largely unreversed until Reagan. This contributed moreorless directly to the US Army's struggles in Korea and Vietnam.

 

[Dachs]

I don't know the full details, but it was the product of some reforms that came with demobilization and went largely unreversed until Reagan. This contributed moreorless directly to the US Army's struggles in Korea and Vietnam.

By the middle of 1951, the Army in Korea had largely recovered its combat power in an institutional sense. It was not suited for serious offensive combat operations, but it wasn't supposed to be, nor was it designed to be: it was designed to hold ground, annihilate the enemy with fortifications and the firepower of the artillery and the Air Force, and to conduct limited attacks on specific points to exert pressure.

Yes, the Truman administration's near-total destruction of the Army in 1946-48 did severely diminish its capability, combat power, and in some cases weakened it institutionally in ways that would not be addressed until the 1970s. Yes, the decision to rely on nuclear arms as the cornerstone of American foreign policy instead of, I dunno, something that could actually be used made the Army weaker than it might otherwise have been. Yes, the transformation of the US Army associated with the later stages of the Vietnam War, the Revolution in Military Affairs, and the Reagan administration made it the virtually unchallengeable force it is today, in sharp contrast to the flawed Army that existed in the middle of the 20th century. But it's important to not overstate the continuity of those flaws or their seriousness.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Theft is an illegal act, taxes are legal, so calling taxes theft just shows a great deal of ignorance and intellectual dishonesty on your party. People have told you this before, but it's pretty clear you have no real desire to listen to anyone.

Some dictionaries include illegality as part of the definition of theft, but those are in the minority and do not have a monopoly on the proper meanings of words.

Theft is also often defined as "the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another" or "the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."


Definitions that create artificial restrictions in order to excuse the actions of governments are not very useful when discussing the subject of morality. Most systems of ethics do not consider the morality of an act to be in any way dependent on its legality.

 

[King Kalmah]

Don't want to pay a sales tax? Easy! Don't spend money at a store!
Don't want to pay property tax? Easy! Don't buy a home or car!
Don't want to pay income tax? Easy! Stay off the payrolls!
Don't want to pay a dividend tax? Easy! Don't buy stock or open a savings account!

I've been doing 2 through 4 all my life...but good luck with number 1...every jerk is charging sales tax...sometimes they doable charge you and call you crazy for calling them out on it...( it is ten cents...I think...and that can be saved up to buy a burger...or soda...)

 

[Borachio]

Link to video.

http://www.alternet.org/story/156290/why_i_decided,_11_years_ago,_to_live_without_money

For more than 11 years I’ve lived without money, government assistance, or conscious barter. I live primarily in a cave in a Utah canyon, when I’m not wandering. Occasionally I house-sit, though I never ask for house-sits; they just come to me. My food comes from what I find in dumpsters, wild edibles, and what people freely offer. My clothes are cast-offs.

 

[amadeus]

"North Koreans" just believe whatever ideological babble their dear leader tells them.

Source? They said this about the Soviets too but we knew how that turned out.

 

[Borachio]

If I was North Korean, I'd certainly be very careful to appear to agree. It'd probably become second-nature after a while.

I have heard though, that people can freely express whatever they want within their own families. Since if one family member is suspected of a political crime, the whole family is incarcerated.

This is in contrast to the Soviet (and Nazi?) regime, where being denounced by one's own children was not uncommon. I believe. Of course, this may not be true at all. I've been lied to before. Many, many times.

 

[Leoreth]

Definitions that create artificial restrictions in order to excuse the actions of governments are not very useful when discussing the subject of morality.

False equivalencies invoked for rhetorical effect aren't either. The morality and necessity of something can be discussed without this dumbed-down simplicity.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

So NK dropped out of the non-aggression pact this morning.


I almost want South Korea to surprise the world and take this opportunity to launch massive pre-emptive strikes to disarm the North. Problem is, they probably couldn't get it done fast enough to avoid a shelling of Seoul. Still, it's time NK has a dose of their own unpredictable medicine.

 

[peter grimes]

So NK dropped out of the non-aggression pact this morning.


I almost want South Korea to surprise the world and take this opportunity to launch massive pre-emptive strikes to disarm the North. Problem is, they probably couldn't get it done fast enough to avoid a shelling of Seoul. Still, it's time NK has a dose of their own unpredictable medicine.

Defensive Pacts are null and void if one of the signatories declares war. This may be avoided by signing a Permanent Alliance, or - more usefully - vassalizing your partner.

 

[Cutlass]

The capitalist system is one reason you are sitting on your butt posting nonsensical posts about the capitalist system.

Which is why it's so ironic that conservatives want to destroy it.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

@Peter - They are already in a state of war since South Korea and the US never signed a peace treaty with North Korea, only an armistice (followed by non-aggression pacts between the Koreas that the North breaks all the time by shelling islands, sinking destroyers, etc). So our defensive pact with South Korea presumably wouldn't be affected.

*To be clear, I don't really want this to happen, I don't actually wish for war. It's just a sadistic, amusing thought I had. I also worded my unrealistic hypothetical as to avoid the US entirely, it was meant to be solely a South Korean surprise strike on the North without US involvement, which makes the unrealistic hypothetical even more unrealistic.

 

[Synobun]

One of these days, all the "Pshaw, it's just saber rattling." will blow up in the faces of the people who constantly say it. Does Seoul need to get flattened before you take North Korea seriously?

 

[Azale]

One of these days, all the "Pshaw, it's just saber rattling." will blow up in the faces of the people who constantly say it. Does Seoul need to get flattened before you take North Korea seriously?

Pretty much, yes.

 

[Synobun]

Pretty much, yes.

Cool. Well, while you have a total disregard for human life, I'll be here in my little corner going, "Yeaaaah, maybe something should be done, mmmkay?"