NOTW LV: The Underground (Game Thread)

[Sprig]

Went through the thread and a few things stood out to me:

Why make this statement? The vote wouldn't have made a difference (he "lost" by two). Why make the vote now? Why do you think he's scum? You never mentioned the reasoning behind the vote.

My Gravitas is worth more than one vote (Hypothetically, my one vote could have changed the dynamics.)

Going back and looking at it now, it paints a different picture... there were far less votes floating around than I thought. Basically, the votes on on JHT felt contrived as in 'im voting for a scum mate/distancing' way. But re-reading the interaction between spaceman and JHT I am less sure of them being teammates.

In anycase, I was curious to see who would follow on a JHT vote today and maintain it.

 

[Double A]

Did... Did Double A just defend me?

Now, now, let's not get hasty. He occasionally gets like this.

imma big boy
wrbrbrbrbrbr

You don't have what is needed to vote for me!

Wait, are you still part of the game?

You know, my heart really isn't in a JHT lynch anymore. It was yesterday, but I'm disconcerted by how rapidly the wagon picked up today and I think we can do better. JHT has been fairly responsive, and rather than doing the easy thing and throwing an accusation to get me off his tail, he's stood by his reasoning.

unvote: vote: Kennigit. I've played with town Kennigit before. You can do better than one post after the deadline

Your... heart? Sure, it was a decent defense, but you just let it go at the drop of the hat, like it never happened.

God, you're flaky. vote: spaceman

1: I was saying we should lynch him yesterday, first because his posts were questionable (lacking content), second because I saw little merit in lynching bladescape.

Is there really anything to go off on day 2? I mean, there's more than D1, but you wouldn't call *me* out for posting nothing but nonsense on D2.

2: I stopped because he finally responded with something semi-substantive, which many people like Kennigit (whose said NOTHING but is in no danger of being WOGed due to his one post) haven't done

Your offer of a bone is semi-accepted. fos: Ken

3: A player of my caliber: lol. Right now, I'm a player dealing with illness and Summer Quarter finals.

aren't those the same thing

4: JHT voted for me and is still alive, so your just wrong on that last part

okay seriously what even is the point of this argument chain

 

[Double A]

Wait, what am I doing? I hate bandwagons.

unvote: spaceman
vote: Ken

get your butt on this forum young man
only I'm allowed to be that inactive and still be considered an active participant

 

[Double A]

I still think Spaceman should be lynched, though. Townies with as much as experience as him are usually more brash than skittish (which is typically what newbies are), and he's somewhere in between right now. I think that's pretty weird, and he's being overly cautious. Caution sucks.

 

[choxorn]

Agreed, he's flipping all over the place and his sudden reversal on JHT doesn't make any sense. Like Backwards said, he's trying too hard to look townie.

Vote: spaceman

 

[Snerk]

Well, since this game has subs, then an inactive teammate can get replaced and become useful again, so their still a concern for the town.

Weak reasoning to use a lynch on an inactive. Although stones in glasshouses, I usually suggest inactive lynches now and again, but deffo not now.

He says he thinks your town and you just drop off?

There's good reasoning behind the Space wagon. But I also slightly with JHT here:

In saying that, I'm pretty sure you are town. I'm not sure why Jarrema finds your throwing baseless accusations around scummy, it's the towniest thing I know.

Stop frowning! I can do a lot of posting if you want, and maybe insert content in some -admittedly tiny- percentage of my posts.

More frowning, more posts, more content, more girls, more chocolate, more jam.

Wait, what am I doing? I hate bandwagons.

unvote: spaceman
vote: Ken

get your butt on this forum young man
only I'm allowed to be that inactive and still be considered an active participant

Bandwagons are a necessary evil, no?

I still think Spaceman should be lynched, though. Townies with as much as experience as him are usually more brash than skittish (which is typically what newbies are), and he's somewhere in between right now. I think that's pretty weird, and he's being overly cautious. Caution sucks.

If you want to lynch Spaceman, then vote for him. Scums are afraid of bandwagons, townies should be less so. Which one are you?

But I agree, where are thou Kennigit?

 

[Double A]

I feel like my vote is always better served voting for a secondary candidate, even if the primary one has a guilty scan on him. I'm pretty sure it's gotten me lynched in the past, but I'm sticking with it. Once a bandwagon gets going, nothing else happens.

 

[Zack]

In fact, everyone (of the two) who voted for me is still alive.

unvote: vote: Zack lets fix that. I don't see a player of your caliber making that kind of mistake

You're right, that was the only Day phase where people voted.

 

[johnhughthom]

So, go for someone lazily on the bandwagon against me, someone lazily on the bandwagon against Spaceman, or an inactive seems to be the order of the day.

I'm going to go Vote: choxorn

 

[johnhughthom]

Also, spaceman. For an example of why I only post when I have something to say (or to crack a "joke"), check your recent defence. Now I don't think you are scum, but you are making it really hard for me to remain obstinate on the issue.

 

[spaceman98]

Well, I perish. Ah well. I haven't put nearly as much time nor thought/effort into this game as it deserved, and it seems I'll hang for that now. After I die, review the accusations against me and my responses, in light of my soon-to-be confirmed town status.

If I have more time today I'll post a list of everyone and my leans on them

 

[classical_hero]

I thought I had voted for johnhughthom yesterday, but i must not have put it in. I don't have time right now to catch up on what has happened since then, so my vote will stay.

 

[spaceman98]

Pre-Mortem Leans:

classical_hero
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13916537#post13916537
D1 vote
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13921533#post13921533
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13921546#post13921546
Notes the overall chaos of the thread and votes for someone more lurkish than himself

Lean: Nothing really to lean on. Needs to post more. Voting for lurkers while voting yourself doesn't really make me happy. Suspicious



KingMorgan
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13915259#post13915259
His only post was a D1 vote. Might get WOGed.


Choxorn
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13915348#post13915348
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13915866#post13915866
D1 banter

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13919448#post13919448
D2 somewhat irrelevant comment about Double A

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13920422#post13920422
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13920582#post13920582
Response to my argument about the Sheami Public Role, says that arguing based on public role names is baseless metagaming. Nothing wrong here (I stand by my statement though: Those roles are information and we can do something with them). Seems like a townish post for Chox.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13920650#post13920650
Irrelevant

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13921056#post13921056
All aboard the bladescape wagon (for no good reason)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13924192#post13924192
All aboard the spaceman wagon (for slightly better reasons)

Overall: Lots of posts relative to the last two (which isn't saying much). Not much content there, aside from dissagreeing with me over public roles. Both bandwagon votes. Chox, I'd like to see more from you.


Robbiecon:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13919508#post13919508
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13920691#post13920691
Opens D2 with a post pressuring Visor, back before Visor became the most active person in thread. Looks good


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13920760#post13920760
All aboard the bladescape wagon. One of his more scummy moments

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923166#post13923166
Defends self from accusation of inactivity, which is Ironic given that he's been one of the most active people in thread. Lots of cross-talk between him and Visor. After this post, Visor instantly switches off of him. Not sure what to make of that. Incidently, Snerk was also voting for him based on the justification that he needs to post more, but as you can see he's been one of the more active people in thread. Minor FOS on Snerk

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923185#post13923185
More cross-talk between him and Visor intrestingly enough. Posts some analysis.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923193#post13923193
Defends Visor from accusations of "driving the game" (which intrestingly, amounts to an accusation of being TOO active. Another odd accusation. One that incidently came from snerk. Moderately Active -> Snerk Accuses you. Very Active -> Snerk accuses you. More FOS Snerk.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923201#post13923201
Votes for classical_lurker

Actually surprisingly active in this game compared to how I remember him, which makes me happy. Probably town. Lots of interaction with Visor. I ship it

 

[Takhisis]

And you haven't analyzed me? For shame, spaceman98, for shame.

 

[Takhisis]

More frowning, more posts, more content, more girls, more chocolate, more jam.

Why do you think I'm not posting enough?

Bandwagons are a necessary evil, no?

Why is it that Double A is scared of voting for someone who, according to Double A himself, should be lynched?

 

[spaceman98]

And you haven't analyzed me? For shame, spaceman98, for shame.

I'm going down the signups list in numerical order


johnhughthom
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13915367#post13915367
Random D1 vote

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13918980#post13918980
The Riedquat vote that drew my ire earlier

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13919779#post13919779
Oh my god I suck

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923072#post13923072
defending self from me

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923474#post13923474
irrelevant

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923497#post13923497
This post, along with his increased participating, convinced me to switch off of him (a decision that apparently will cost me my life)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13924662#post13924662
vote against bandwagonning, seems reasonable enough

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13924669#post13924669
This post sums this game up so far: Active people get lynched for saying quesitonable things. Lurkers live and prosper and multiply.

I've already expounded ad nauseum as to my opinion on JHT, no need to continue doing so. He's probably town


spaceman98

Clearly the scummiest scum to ever scum the earth (or Erebus, for that matter)

landlubber

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13915862#post13915862
D1 vote

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13916330#post13916330
Presses Zack. I think Zack is scum, so this is good in my book

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13919393#post13919393
First person to vote Sprig. Null tell by itself

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13921388#post13921388
Switches from Sprig to JHT, certainly a reasonable thing to do at the time. Looks townish to me. Wolf would have kept pushing to avoid seeming "inconsistent".


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13921470#post13921470
Adresses various accusations, most notably of bandwagoning, which was a baseless one, given that he was the first Sprig voter

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923515#post13923515 anti-bandwagon vote this phase. Helped derail the JHT wagon. Votes for a dead guy (I've done that as town and as scum, accidently, its a null tell)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13923799#post13923799 Switches to Sprig without explanation. Curious why?

Overall looks townish to me, though I wonder why your voting Sprig? That's a totally irrelevant vote right now


Backwards Logic
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13915903#post13915903
D1 Vote

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13916501#post13916501
Pressures Snerk D1. As I said earlier, my overall picture of Snerk is that I'm suspicious of him. I'll ellaborate once/if I get to Snerk on the list

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13919764#post13919764
First bladescape voter. Null tell, since while the bladewagon was bad, being first to vote isn't really bandwagoning. Pressures Riedquat for info which is reasonable.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13921101#post13921101
Opposes lynching inactives and pushes for a bladescape lynch. Given how much inactivity has hurt this game, I dissagree with this view, but there's nothing scummy here per-se.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13924151#post13924151
Pushes the case on me. Certainly dissagreeable to me, but not scummy per-se.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13924157#post13924157
I voted for JHT per my reasoning yesterday. Than JHT spoke up and I unvoted. What's so inconsistent about that?

BL is always hard to read for me, and this time is no exception.


Legato Endless
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13915499#post13915499
D1 vote

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13916547#post13916547
Supports the idea of actually lynching someone D1. Good play for the town IMO based on recent experience, but scum can do it to if they know a townie is on the ropes

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13921350#post13921350

Rather week vote on landlubber. Tallies are a nice community service, but not a town-tell. In fact, I post tallies as scum more often than as town, though that's just me.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13922961#post13922961
dissagrees with visor. Has NOT voted today

Overall keeping a low profile. I'm going with scummy, and I'd at least like a vote out of you Legato. I've seen your town play and you can contribute more than you have so far.

 

[Double A]

Why is it that Double A is scared of voting for someone who, according to Double A himself, should be lynched?

What worth is my vote in this situation? He's still gonna die, and I'm just fine with that. Maybe, though, I can still use my vote to make someone else feel pressure.

 

[Snerk]

What's the tally?

Incidently, Snerk was also voting for him based on the justification that he needs to post more, but as you can see he's been one of the more active people in thread. Minor FOS on Snerk

Not at the time of my vote on him.

Defends Visor from accusations of "driving the game" (which intrestingly, amounts to an accusation of being TOO active. Another odd accusation. One that incidently came from snerk. Moderately Active -> Snerk Accuses you. Very Active -> Snerk accuses you. More FOS Snerk

It wasn't an accusation of driving the game. I was pointing out that it was a little odd that a player who was being so open with his networking, was being left alive by the mafia.

Why do you think I'm not posting enough?

The more the merrier!

Why is it that Double A is scared of voting for someone who, according to Double A himself, should be lynched?

Because Double A..

/puts on sunglasses

Is working with a double standard.

YEAAAAAAHHHHH!!...

 

[Double A]

I am not spooked

 

[Kennigit]

I've just been rolling around in the mud. It's so fun! AND stylish~

Anyways I hate like every post this game lol. Probably including my own here.

I'll give spaceman the benefit of my doubt because he literally at least considers the third party route or whatnot. I complain literally every game that people seem to love to ignore fundamental game mechanics and go with stupid metagamey stuff on "oh this person does this in games." Everyone speaks #scum or #townie but like they're really just some 5 STR mafia or serial killer or something the whole time just chilling out all cool (not as cool as being in a good spot in the mud) not giving a crap about all these little thread scuffles and not really worried about the other scum or vigs or whatever actually killing them and try to fundamentally sneak by.

But I'll get picky at choxorn 'cuz he just super casually dismisses stuff like this real early:

Well, public roles are given to us for something, are they not? Reliable or otherwise, their the only solid information the GM gives us. I'm aware of the WIFOM involved, so its a weak defense, but its all I've got at this point.

Is it general tradition in NOTW that those publically stated roles don't mean anything?

They could mean anything. Or nothing.

Assuming something purely because of a public role is silly.

Kinda makes me wonder whether choxorn is a strawman golem. Or like a baddie.


Then I'll break my own rule and also say man takhisis, I just admire your ability to be scummy in my eyes. Takhisis I know pays attention to all them little details of the game but then just harps on the most silly things to me, like now deadquats/riedquat's little voting thing the other day

Your vote doesn't count? Then why vote at all?

I'll bet 100 mud cakes that takhisis has one of them secret vote manipulating thingies