NutraNESIV.6: The Dread Kings of Ekra

[thomas.berubeg]

Orders are sent! Nutranurse, if you have issues or problems, please tell me?

 

[Popcornlord]

Speaking of which, when are orders due?

 

[erez87]

Speaking of which, when are orders due?

They aren't due until there is a military rules...

 

[nutranurse]

I am going to disregard your orders, Thomas. Alright, sorry spring break took me away for a week as I had little access to the internet for a couple days. I am back on campus (though break is still in session), so by the end of tonight I'll have the new military rules sorted out as well as stats.

Thank you guys for your patience!

 

[hbar]

Woohoo! Procrastination wins again!

 

[nutranurse]

Alright, here's an explanation of the new system for the military:

Small Cities provide 3,200†
Small Castles provide 3,200†
---
Large Cities provide 5,400†
Large Castles provide 5,800†

This is base manpower, though more manpower can be recruited/generated automatically.

Realm Garrison now functions both as a 'last defense' and an indicator to how much free manpower players receive each turn/every decade. Realm Garrison is only provided by castles.

Small Castles provide 500†
Large Castles provide 1,000†

There are now three states that manpower† can be in:
Pool~Your "Manpower" represents your manpower pool and while soldiers are in the pool they are considered 'unusable for campaigns, but there'. In this state they cost 0¤ to maintain, however they cannot be set out on offensive campaigns, but can be counted to defend your realm in the event of an enemy invasion. It is important to note that 'Pool' manpower fights considerably less well than 'Standing' manpower or 'Realm Garrison' manpower; 'Pool' manpower can be thought of as your battle-capable citizens (Orcs/Elves/Orelfs that are of age and fit) that are currently not serving in your army, but are dispersed around your realm and will take up arms against invaders in a fair unorganized way.

Standing~Your 'Standing' manpower are those citizens that are properly organized into armies, under command of vaguely capable officers, and are able to partake in your offensive campaigns. You get 'Standing' manpower by raising your 'Pool' manpower, which you can do by expending 1¤/1,000†. Standing manpower can defend your realm effectively if left in your realm. Standing manpower can be 'demobilized' back into your 'Pool' manpower.

Realm Garrison~Your 'Realm Garrison' manpower, as mentioned above, serves a dual purpose of representing those soldiers stationed in/around castles as well as representing young Orcs/Elves/Orelves that are entering your manpower 'Pool'. Your 'Realm Garrison' can never exceed the allowed amount that is dictated by your holdings (i.e. if you have 2 small castles and 1 large city your Realm Garrison can never be over 1,000†, as your small castles provide 500† each while your large city provides nothing), however your 'Realm Garrison' may fall below its maximum amount in the event of an invasion to represent casualties taken during resistance. (i.e. if you have 2 small castles and 1 large city and are invaded by some player who fails to capture anything due to a successful resistance your Realm Garrison may be reduced to 200† to represent the losses sustained). Even if your 'Realm Garrison' falls below its maximum amount it will still provide the maximum amount of free manpower per turn, but the free manpower first goes into the Realm Garrison before supplying your manpower 'Pool' (i.e. if you own 2 small castles and 1 large city and have a Realm Garrison of 200† you receive 1,000†, but the first 800† goes into your Realm Garrison to bring it back up to 1,000† and the remaining 200† goes into your 'Pool' manpower).

Even if you have no castles you can still recruit manpower per turn by paying for it. This is to equalize cities and castles somewhat to emphasize the economic boons of cities and the military boons of castles.

Here is a list of costs:
0¤ per 1000 manpower (rounded up) to maintain troops
--Remember, 'Pool' manpower costs nothing to maintain.
1¤ per 1000 manpower (rounded up) to raise/mobilize troops
--To 'mobilize' your 'Pool' manpower into your 'Standing' manpower it costs ¤
10¤ per 1000 manpower (rounded up) to recruit additional army
--You can always recruit manpower, this can be rationalized as providing your citizens incentives to join your army; recruited manpower goes directly into 'Standing' manpower and if demobilized the recruited manpower becomes 'Pool' manpower
10¤ per 1000 manpower (rounded up) field army
--When in the field your armies cost a considerable amount of ¤, which is meant to encourage players to form coalitions when attacking other players or give benefits to economic-heavy players.

I will be updating stats shortly.

edit: A note on navies
Navies will be now included in their own separate stat. 20‡ ships = 1,000† manpower. 'Pool' manpower can also be converted into 'Navy' ships/manpower for 1¤ per 1,000† (i.e. if a player has 5,000† in their manpower pool he could turn 2,000† into 20‡ for 2¤).

Ships‡ can be recruited for 10¤/20‡.

Small Cities provide 8‡
Small Castles provide 8‡
---
Large Cities provide 14‡
Large Castles provide 14‡

Seafaring clans receive:

12‡ for Small Cities/Castles
18‡ for Large Cities/Castles

Of course players have no navy if they do not have any major coastal settlements. Upon constructing/capturing a coastal settlement players must wait 1 turn/update to receive their base amount of ships.

A special thanks to theDright for helping me/providing the groundwork for these rule updates. Expect great things from him if he ever decides to run a NES of his own, folks!

edit: So there is no confusion about it, players are receiving 5,000† to begin with in their manpower pool.
Wait, what am I talking about? This makes no sense. Unless you went to war last turn your base amount of manpower will be put into your pool.

 

[Popcornlord]

These new rules look very promising. Personally I think the price for fielding armies is way to high, but I'll see how it plays out.

To make sure I understand this right, if I have a small city and a small castle, without doing anything else, I would have 6,400† in my pool, with an additional 500† per turn, and 500† free garrison?

 

[Tecknojock]

It does seem a bit high. Most players won't be able to field more that one unit without eating into the bank. One could just keep a standing army of 5000 spending 5¤ and be pretty much completely safe from aggression. 10¤ is probably more reasonable for fielding an army. Then we are looking at about 3 armies without eating into savings.

To make sure I understand this right, if I have a small city and a small castle, without doing anything else, I would have 6,400† in my pool, with an additional 500† per turn, and 500† free garrison?

I think its 6,400† in my pool, and 500† free garrison with the ability to recruit 500† per turn into your standing army without incurring recruitment costs.
Rereading it, your probably right.

 

[theDright]

These new rules look very promising. Personally I think the price for fielding armies is way to high, but I'll see how it plays out.

To make sure I understand this right, if I have a small city and a small castle, without doing anything else, I would have 6,400† in my pool, with an additional 500† per turn, and 500† free garrison?

@Popcornlord

Yeah, that's the idea. You'd also have 16 ships, or 24 ships as a seafaring clan.

Also with regards to your diplomacy, once I have stats (and IRL time, probably by tomorrow evening), I should be able to formulate some answers to your offer.

@nutranurse

So is your 'Pool' manpower going to be the total manpower, or the unraised/mobilized/stood manpower?

Let's say I have 1 small castle, that would be 3200 pool (0 standing+500 garrison+8 ships). If I recruit 1000 more manpower, i would have 4200 pool (0 standing+500 garrison+8 ships). But if I mobilize/raise/standify 1000 manpower from that, are you going to do 4200 pool (1000 standing+500 garrison+8 ships) or 3200 pool (1000 manpower+500 garrison+8 ships)?

I also thought the fielding cost might be too high, but there aren't too many good choices. If you did 10 income per 1000 manpower, I don't think it would have the same effect that nutra wants, ie forming coalitions.

 

[Tecknojock]

Sure it would. Defensibly, someone could easily field 10-15 armies as that only works out to 10-15¤ a turn and on top of that, you have non-mobilized and garrisoned forces. Assuming 60¤ banked and 30¤ income, that works out to 9 armies if you leave no defensive forces and so at least pairs, probably triplets will need to be formed. Anything greater than that and it becomes a logistics issue. At only 14 players, a triplet works out to 20% and so it is a reasonable sized coalition. On top of that, you need to realize that your target probably has allies as well.

EDIT: My wife and child are not reflected in the stats.

 

[nutranurse]

@nutranurse

So is your 'Pool' manpower going to be the total manpower, or the unraised/mobilized/stood manpower?

Let's say I have 1 small castle, that would be 3200 pool (0 standing+500 garrison+8 ships). If I recruit 1000 more manpower, i would have 4200 pool (0 standing+500 garrison+8 ships). But if I mobilize/raise/standify 1000 manpower from that, are you going to do 4200 pool (1000 standing+500 garrison+8 ships) or 3200 pool (1000 manpower+500 garrison+8 ships)?

I also thought the fielding cost might be too high, but there aren't too many good choices. If you did 10 income per 1000 manpower, I don't think it would have the same effect that nutra wants, ie forming coalitions.

The latter. If you have 5,000 in pool and move 1,000 of that pool to standing you will have 4,000 in pool. If, however, you outright BUY manpower (for 10¤) it goes directly into your standing forces.

Also, I am inclined to agree with you guys that 20¤/1,000† is a bit much for field costs. 10†, even 5† may be enough considering it lets the rich mega-giants (i.e. erez, in this example) field plenty more troops forcing players to try and ally with each other. What would you guys prefer?

EDIT: Oh and Heartlands/Elflands stats are updated. Onto the next stats!

 

[Tecknojock]

My base ships arn't recorded in my stats (should be 12‡ if its just coastal settlements, or 66‡ if its all settlements), also reiterating: my wife and child that I got in the update are not reflected in the stats.

also, I'll cast my vote in for 10¤/1000†

Thanks for all the hard work.

 

[theDright]

Meant to say that it wouldn't have the magnitude of the effect he was going for originally. I would support 10¤/1,000†. Since this is fielding cost spread out over the decade, I'd say that would be more than reasonable.

@Tecknojock

"Whenever the rules are changed, some people get...LEFT BEHIND"

 

[nutranurse]

My base ships arn't recorded in my stats (should be 12‡ if its just coastal settlements, or 66‡ if its all settlements), also reiterating: my wife and child that I got in the update are not reflected in the stats.

also, I'll cast my vote in for 10¤/1000†

Thanks for all the hard work.

On wife & child: Doing that now

On ships: Certain factions (off the top of my head: yours, masada's, spryillo's) did not receive ships to reflect the fact that they have focused more so on the landed aspects of war as opposed to naval war. You can, of course, invest some ¤ into building a proper navy.

Western Extent/Eastern Reaches stats should be done.

 

[Tecknojock]

Alright, sounds good to me. Do those base ships require upkeep? Do only coastal cities receive this base, or do all cities receive them?

EDIT: If armies are disbanded at the beginning of the turn, do i still end up paying upkeep cost on them that turn?

 

[nutranurse]

Base ships require upkeep, and so long as you have a single coastal city you will get the benefits of ALL cities providing ships (as these cities simply supply the coastal city with the building materials for their ships).

edit: @theDright: I know you're going to find an error with how I calculated the manpower totals, but I just decided to make it easy for myself and just add together what the players have as of the end of the turn, including newly conquered cities. This is just for this turn only.

 

[Tecknojock]

Then whats the base ship mean? Is that the number of ships you can support or the number of ships you can create without having to purchase ships?

 

[theDright]

From: King Larenésas 'the Drake-Friend' of the Kingdom of Minamonno
To: King Horthir II of the Kingdom of Aeralithe

I am comfortable with my liberation of the Ondotauré; I believe that justice has been done and all is currently as it should be.

I do also wish for peace, friendship, and trade between our peoples.

Yes, if marriage to your lovely daughter and alliance is what you are proposing, I am very much interested.
..................................................
From: King Larenésas 'the Drake-Friend' of the Kingdom of Minamonno
To: King Îdhar of the Kingdom of Mîrhabad

We both know how capable the other is on the field of battle. The Ondotauré and Werthalian have graciously accepted me as their lord. I am sure that your rightful lands are weary of war, and I propose that both of our kingdoms agree to a pledge of peace between us for at least the next decade.
..................................................

 

[nutranurse]

Then whats the base ship mean? Is that the number of ships you can support or the number of ships you can create without having to purchase ships?

The number you can create without having to purchase. If you decide to say "HEY I WANT SUM SHIPS NAO" and invest ¤ then you'll get the base ship amounts. Your sailors/marines will be crappy, but you'll gett the ships.

 

[Tecknojock]

Looking over upkeep, these clans appear to have an incorrect value:
Clan Celenarryl should be 5 instead of 3 (2800 troops, 32 ships)
Clan Amathon should have 5 instead of 6 (2400 troops, 32 ships)
Clan Brishnak should have 3 instead of 4 (2800 troops)
Clan Endain should have 9 instead of 8 (5600 troops, 44 ships)
Clan Pudish should have 2 instead of 6 (38 ships)

These are with the assumptions that upkeep is always rounded up (as it appears to be) and 20 ships per 1000 men. If this is wrong, then a different set of clans will need to be changed and I'll point those out tomorrow.

20 ships/1000 men is a little ambiguous though as you contradict yourself. Could I get some clarification as to which one you meant? I'm assuming its the former because its way more clear.

20‡ ships = 1,000† manpower

...he could turn 2,000† into 20‡ for 2¤

The number you can create without having to purchase. If you decide to say "HEY I WANT SUM SHIPS NAO" and invest ¤ then you'll get the base ship amounts. Your sailors/marines will be crappy, but you'll gett the ships.

Is this the 1¤ & 1000†/20‡? or is it a different cost not listed?