OB06 - Six of the Best

[Conroe]

Uploads seem to be fixed ... the save is attached ...

Iron Works and Moai if we're going space and National Epic if we're going cultural. Wall Street might not be worth it unless we come up with a shrine

Maui sounds good for Amsterdam. Be nice to fit in Hermitage if we're going cultural. Agree with Wall Street ... only if we have a shrine or a corp.





_^.

 

[Kodii]

Got it.. will take a look tomorrow to hammer out any questions.

 

[ungy]

Don't have civ but I'd say we'll be OK economy wise. We have good trading partners and can surely catch up on tech.
I'd focus on blocking the territory that we want--we should be able to plan our six cities now and make sure we claim them.

As long as Toku can expand peacefully we're probably OK but when he runs out of room we should prepare to be attacked.

Tech wise since we might want to do aesthetics and trade it around--that should bring in alpha (maybe with a turn's research), math, IW.

 

[Kodii]

We have a lot of forests on our to-be-cottage lands. Do we want to direct the shields towards a project... say Moai? (I'm not totally convinced we need it.. especially with Dikes and only four coast tiles in Amsterdam).

Also, can we afford another city to the west of The Hague to block off Toku? We are running 20% at +1 GPT and there aren't any fabulous city sites there. Perhaps it would be wise to put together a dotmap of our 6 cities before continuing?

Does everyone agree with Aesthetics after Writing?

 

[Ozbenno]

Dot map would be a good idea probably. Once we get some cottages up and working, we should be able to afford some more cities.

I'm not sure about Aesthetics, would have thought Alphabet would be better for trading but if we can trade Aesthetics for Alphabet then it works I suppose.

I'd think a library and lightbouse (and employing scientists) would be most needed in Amsterdam, chop them in for sure.

 

[Kodii]

I haven't experimented a whole lot with Immortal, so I don't know whether or not the AI would have Alphabet before we are able to hand research it.

Here is a quick and incomplete dotmap that I threw together:

Both of the city sites I placed are for discussion... since I placed them to make full advantage of rivers (and therefore Dikes) and resources, rather than land availability. Both of my suggested cities share too many tiles with Amsterdam, but no spectacular city sites jump out to me.

Another option would be to settle a couple of cities on the southern continent?

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Blue dot could go 1W then it loses the mountain in BFC NNE. Green dot I would 1E1NE (If I remember there is fish in there). I would also build moai here if we are going to build it as will have most sea tiles of our city sites. Last city could be either 1W of northern dye or on it depending if blue dot gets moved or not.

 

[Conroe]

I agree with MD about moving green dot up the coast to pick up some fish.

As for blue dot ... I'm undecided ... Are we picking this site because we want to build a Levee down the road? Or are we thinking of the late game health concerns?

Do we want to direct the shields towards a project...

I would vote at least one, maybe two, Workers. Being Creative, I'd probably whip the Library.

 

[Ozbenno]

Green Dot would be better on the east coast for double seafood (1N of the clam would at least give it one hill). I'm still unsure about blue dot. I'd keep a city up our sleeve, so we can raze-resettle if needed somewhere else.

Workers seem needed for the northern cities but can come from there. We still need two more workboats for Amsterdam as well.

 

[Kodii]

Updated dotmap:

Notice that there are two possible green dots... I didn't notice the other fish to the far east.

Another thing to discuss is how we should Open Borders... do we want to open with all the AIs (except Toku) once we get Writing? It would help with exploring.

 

[Conroe]

First off, a big thanks to Kodii for making the dotmaps!

Of the green dots, I prefer #1. It will have a couple of river tiles for the future Dike. And as Oz notes, at least 1 hill to work. I wonder if pink dot would be better if it were 1NW? That way it would eventually pick up the extra food from the sugar.

I'm still not a big fan of blue dot. I like Oz's idea of saving a Settler for later. Although it seems a waste to leave that corn and those hills outside of a city.

 

[Ozbenno]

I would OB with all the other civs even Toko but that is not going to happen.

#1 seems better as it has some production, #2 would be an interesting whipping/GP post. Pink dot has no production or food source. If you could grow it, it would be a great commerce city.

 

[Kodii]

T1 1240BC - Switch The Hague over to a Worker at size 2

T3 1160BC - Amsterdam completes worker, begins WB

T5 1080BC - Writing in, begin Aesthetics, due in 122 ; Open Borders with all but Toku, which allows us to go back up to 40% and Aesthetics is now due in 49

T7 1000BC - Amsterdam completes WB, begins Library; Utrecht completes Granary, begins Worker

IBT - Our archer outside of Utrecht defeats a barb archer; Wang gets a Prophet and builds the Hindu shrine

T9 950BC - Amsterdam completes Library, begins Settler... why?

Because Toku is on an expanding rampage:

T11 900BC - The Hague completes Worker, begins Granary

T12 875BC - Whip the Settler in Amsterdam; Utrecht completes Worker, begins Barracks (can be changed)

T13 850BC - Amsterdam completes Settler, begins Lighthouse (can be changed)

I stop here so we can decide whether or not to settle the Pink Dot (1W, 1NW of northern dye)

 

[ungy]

don't have civ so maybe my comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

Am I remembering correctly that the dye site doesn't have any food?
If that's correct I would let it go--it'll suck for a long time. Might be better to settle both greens later or possibly there is something to the NE worth it.

I'm a big fan of the globe so I'd be inclined to get 6 cities in time for that.

It looks like Toku is running out of room so I'd start some defense.

I haven't played Dutch in a while but I thought a dike could be build on any coast.

I'd say longer term we should plan on taking Toku out with a rifle/cannon rush.

I'm not sure about OB with everyone. A couple should get us enough trade.
The problem will come when the other continent starts warring and we get asked to join--when lucky 6 comes up we may end up declaring on our best trading partner. So the fewer trading partners the fewer requests.
So I would say reevaluate this later.

 

[Kodii]

Am I remembering correctly that the dye site doesn't have any food?

Well, the "new" dye site has sugar in range, which technically qualifies as bonus food, but not a whole lot.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

don't have civ so maybe my comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

Am I remembering correctly that the dye site doesn't have any food?
If that's correct I would let it go--it'll suck for a long time. Might be better to settle both greens later or possibly there is something to the NE worth it.

As well as the sugar it would have access to fresh water from the river to to the NE to farm a couple of tiles to help initial growth. I agree may not be the greatest site in short term, but at the moment is maybe best option, so far the NE is just desert and mountains maybe need to scout this a bit further.

I'm a big fan of the globe so I'd be inclined to get 6 cities in time for that.

With the amount of resources with have directly available and potential for trade I dont think the Globe Theatre is going to be worth using up one of our six wonders for.

I haven't played Dutch in a while but I thought a dike could be build on any coast.

Correct in any city tile with direct acces to water fresh or sea.

I'd say longer term we should plan on taking Toku out with a rifle/cannon rush.

If not before

I'm not sure about OB with everyone. A couple should get us enough trade.
The problem will come when the other continent starts warring and we get asked to join--when lucky 6 comes up we may end up declaring on our best trading partner. So the fewer trading partners the fewer requests.
So I would say reevaluate this later.

We only really need OB with enough civs to fill our trade link quotas per city.
I'm not sure how the diplo rules work regarding AI asking to declare wars?? Do we have to have current trade links?? I assumed any that we have met could ask?? We can always swap around if our current partner gets involved in war to minimize this.

 

[Ozbenno]

OK, I'm up again. Will look at the save tonight and post comments and play Friday or Saturday.

@ungy - are you saying we can only get a war request with a civ we have OB with? Never knew that. If that is the case, we can close OB with all civs that we have no trade links with.

New pink is a better choice for a city. We really need Calendar to get these cities up and going.

 

[Ozbenno]

Well looking at the save didn't help in trying to decide whether to found a new city or not. Any thoughts?

Otherwise, continue the way to Aesthetics and build up some border defense seem the way to go.

I'll be playing in 24 hours...

 

[ungy]

@ungy - are you saying we can only get a war request with a civ we have OB with? Never knew that. If that is the case, we can close OB with all civs that we have no trade links with.

no I think you can still get that.
however, the more trading partners the more stop trading requests we can get--at this point there isn't much gain from all those OB--2 is probably enough.

As for the dye city, if it can get a sugar and a few grass farms it can grow OK. Problem is it really isn't any good until calender and we need to claim it soon if we want it. Tough call.

As Toku is running out of room, I'd check him frequently for the dreaded WHEOOH.

 

[Conroe]

Well looking at the save didn't help in trying to decide whether to found a new city or not. Any thoughts?

Well, pink dot will definitely be a worthless city until we have IW and a cadre of Workers to clear out all of that jungle. I'd probably hold off founding the city, but leave the Settler ready to go in case Japan sends a Settler into the area.