Obama to call for repeal of DADT in State of the Union

[holy king]

patriotism is something stuffed in a dusty chest that is only opened for international matches.

 

[MobBoss]

So join the civilised world and repeal it.

Awww. He called us barbarians.

Considering:

Get a salary, technical training, 30 days vacation a year, and incentives to get bonuses or pay off student loans. And if you stick with it you get to retire as early as 38 years old and get paid that retirement pay as soon as you retire, not at age 62.

There's your incentive.

Again I mention that military service is selective. Sure you volunteer, but not everyone makes the cut, nor should they. And in consideration of that, I dont see those incentives being enough if I were a homosexual. But thats just me.

And the silly notion that even, yes this might shock you, even homosexuals might love their country and feel honour in helping defending it.

As has been pointed out many times in this forum, there are other ways to do this aside from the military. Arent you on record as saying military service in of itself isnt all that respectable?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sir!
Yes?
We have reports of racism in our ranks, Sir.
Oh there's an easy solution to that private.
Sir?
Yeah, just kick out all the black folk!
Sir!

 

[MobBoss]

i can have that without the getting hacked to pieces part.

well, except for the retirement...

Your odds of getting into a fatal car accident are probably greater than you being 'hacked to pieces'.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Again I mention that military service is selective. Sure you volunteer, but not everyone makes the cut, nor should they. And in consideration of that, I dont see those incentives being enough if I were a homosexual. But thats just me.

Indeed. That is just you. Why not let other people decide for themselves hmm?

As has been pointed out many times in this forum, there are other ways to do this aside from the military. Arent you on record as saying military service in of itself isnt all that respectable?

Yes. And my words were "Not more respectable by default". But you know that don't you? Yes you do. But that is just me. I let other people decide for themselves.

Nice dodge by the way. Not addressed a single point. Do you understand that gay people might want to serve because they feel pride in defending their country? Who are you to deny them that?

 

[holy king]

Your odds of getting into a fatal car accident are probably greater than you being 'hacked to pieces'.

how about my odds of killing people i have no qualm with?

 

[MobBoss]

Indeed. That is just you. Why not let other people decide for themselves hmm?

We do. We kick them out routinely for making an unwise choice because they couldnt keep from 'telling'.

Just as an aside, how many homosexuals do you think are in service in the US military?

how about my odds of killing people i have no qualm with?

Pretty small also. The vast majority of soldiers never get an opportunity to shoot at someone, let alone kill them.

 

[holy king]

five percent would sound realistic.

also depends on what you call homosexual.

if on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is only attracted to males and 10 only attracted to females, someone is a 2 or even a 3, do you count them as homosexual or bisexual?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We do. We kick them out routinely for making an unwise choice because they couldnt keep from 'telling'.

But you keep all them heteros who are telling right?

That's right.

Just as an aside, how many homosexuals do you think are in service in the US military?

6 thousand 4 hundred and 3

Do you understand that gay people might want to serve because they feel pride in defending their country?

 

[MobBoss]

five percent would sound realistic.

also depends on what you call homosexual.

if on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is only attracted to males and 10 only attracted to females, someone is a 2 or even a 3, do you count them as homosexual or bisexual?

Not a bad guess. Its about 4%.

Now how many of those actually get removed each year under DADT?

But you keep all them heteros who are telling right?

That's right.

Absolutely. But we are barbaric like that.

Again. Soldiers in the military dont have the same rights as someone on the street. Different rules, different requirements, and behavior that people wouldnt think twice about on the street gets you kicked out of the military in a hurry. Even if your hetero.

6 thousand 4 hundred and 3

Multiply that by about 10.

Do you understand that gay people might want to serve because they feel pride in defending their country?

They might...and they might not. I am sure they all have different reasons for doing what they do.

 

[holy king]

10 percent?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

edit: routinely

Are you of the opinion that it's no problem that the military is heavily biased against homosexuality?

Or do you feel that it's an attitude that needs to be changed. Not tomorrow obviously but over time, there should be acceptance of homosexuals in the military, it's just that the time is not right for it now?

 

[MobBoss]

10 percent?

Way, way less. Only a bit above 1 percent a year.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Absolutely. But we are barbaric like that.

Acceptance! Very good! That's already the 3rd step.

 

[JollyRoger]

Just as an aside, how many homosexuals do you think are in service in the US military?

Don't ASK, don't tell.

 

[Mise]

Way, way less. Only a bit above 1 percent a year.

Not nearly enough

 

[JollyRoger]

Just as an aside, how many homosexuals do you think are in service in the US military?

Now how many of those actually get removed each year under DADT?

Way, way less. Only a bit above 1 percent a year.

Seems like repealing DADT shouldn't really be a big deal then, if you are already letting 99% of them stay and secretly ogle you in the shower.

By the way, how are those numbers being generated if there is no asking or telling legally allowed?

 

[MobBoss]

edit: routinely

Are you of the opinion that it's no problem that the military is heavily biased against homosexuality?

Or do you feel that it's an attitude that needs to be changed. Not tomorrow obviously but over time, there should be acceptance of homosexuals in the military, it's just that the time is not right for it now?

Ziggy, I will tell you right now I have no doubts that I know gay soldiers - or let me just say I 'strongly suspect' they are gay and am 99.99% sure of it. And in fact, have worked to prevent commands from wrongly investigating them simply based upon 'rumor'.

Does it bother me? For the most part, no. But I did see something happen earlier in my career that highlights this problem for me. This was over a decade ago, and the unit I was in had a couple of medics. One was senior to the other by a couple of grades. Turns out they were a homosexual couple. One even had his name changed to the others last name but that was explained as 'my family adopted him'. They even took to wearing wedding rings as a matter of habit. However, they werent just content with each other. They used their rank and experience to try and convert/coerce/seduce several of the younger and new medics in their section to be homosexual, and really messed a couple of young kids up before the story came to light.

Now, could that happen with heteros? Absolutely. But I have never run across an instance of it happening like that since. I have dealt with more instances of hetero fraternization, but all of that was simply improper affairs and adultery, not the complex web of the sort of sex ring that was going on in that medic section.

So I guess you can say I have seen it from both sides, pro and con. I still dont think the lifestyle is condusive to military life, but thats me. My main objection to removing DADT is its not really timely right now. I think it will upset certain elements of the military more than others...i.e. the marines and combat arms of the Army. And given that those elements are the most heavily engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, I really think changing DADT should be shelved until we get out of those two conflicts. If they change it so be it, aside from probably creating more work for me, its not going to affect me personally that much.

 

[MobBoss]

By the way, how are those numbers being generated if there is no asking or telling legally allowed?

Was a story about it in a recent Army Times. Seems the Pentagon hires some guy to do an estimate based upon US Census data or something. Dont remember the details, but its merely an estimate, not an actual accounting of.

 

[holy king]

However, they werent just content with each other. They used their rank and experience to try and convert/coerce/seduce several of the younger and new medics in their section to be homosexual, and really messed a couple of young kids up before the story came to light.