OK, so we found WMDs

[Bronx Warlord]

thought WMD´s were like nukes... mustard gas doesnt seem very "mass destruction" to me

Ever seen what it does to humans? there was a reason it was not used in world war two.

 

[usarmy18]

I thought WMD´s were like nukes... mustard gas doesnt seem very "mass destruction" to me...

Mustard gas is a strong vesicant (a compound that causes blisters). Those exposed usually suffer no immediate symptoms. The exposure develops (in 4 to 24 hours) into deep, itching or burning blisters wherever the mustard contacted the skin; the eyes (if exposed) become sore and the eyelids swollen, possibly leading to conjunctivitis and blindness. At very high concentrations, if inhaled, it causes bleeding and blistering within the respiratory system, damaging the mucous membrane and leading to pulmonary edema. Blister agent exposure over more than 50% body surface area is usually fatal.

Skin damage can be reduced if povidone iodine in a base of glycofurol is rapidly applied, but since mustard initially has no symptoms, the exposure is usually not identified until the blisters rise. The vesicant property can be neutralised by oxidation or chlorination, common bleach (NaOCl-) can be used or decontamination solution "DS2" (2% NaOH, 70% diethylenetriamine, 28% ethylene glycol monomethyl ether). Mustard gas is also carcinogenic (cancer causing) and mutagenic (causing damage to DNA of exposed cells).

Mustard gas is pretty "mass destructive".

 

[Marla_Singer]

Mustard gas is pretty "mass destructive".

Alright I agree. Bush has never talked about WMD programs, he was assuming that Saddam had kept few gas shells from the Iran-Iraq war, and that Saddam had let those weapons getting deteriorated on purpose... to hide them better. I agree that all this seems very well-planned.

Now I just have a question, how those 20 year-old deteriorated mustard gas shells were posing a threat to the United States requiring the US to invade first ? What was Saddam secret's strategy to drop those 500 rusty shells on the US soil ?


Maybe he was thinking about giving them to his great friends of Al-Qaeda ? After all, there were some Kurdish independentists who were supporting Al-Qaeda ! But wait, how those Kurdish independentists could trust Saddam and how was it in their interests to transit those shells to the US ? And how to transit them ?

There is certainly a key to this... but there's no doubt Saddam wanted to send his old deterioriated rusty shells to devastate New York City. There was clearly no other move to avoid that secret attack than in invading.

And despite the declaration of the US government itself, who did say that those weapons weren't what they were looking for, it's obvious that the "anti-war crowd" has been FINALLY proven to be wrong.

Haha ! Mobboss we've won ! We're the best ! The other side is made of losers hahaha !

 

[usarmy18]

Alright I agree. Bush has never talked about WMD programs, he was assuming that Saddam had kept few gas shells from the Iran-Iraq war, and that Saddam had let those weapons getting deteriorated on purpose... to hide them better. I agree that all this seems very well-planned.

Now I just have a question, how those 20 year-old deteriorated mustard gas shells were posing a threat to the United States requiring the US to invade first ? What was Saddam secret's strategy to drop those 500 rusty shells on the US soil ?


Maybe he was thinking about giving them to his great friends of Al-Qaeda ? After all, there were some Kurdish independentists who were supporting Al-Qaeda ! But wait, how those Kurdish independentists could trust Saddam and how was it in their interests to transit those shells to the US ? And how to transit them ?

There is certainly a key to this... but there's no doubt Saddam wanted to send his old deterioriated rusty shells to devastate New York City. There was clearly no other move to avoid that secret attack than in invading.

And despite the declaration of the US government itself, who did say that those weapons weren't what they were looking for, it's obvious that the "anti-war crowd" has been FINALLY proven to be wrong.

Haha ! Mobboss we've won ! We're the best ! The other side is made of losers hahaha !

I've already said in this thread I don't care whether or not Saddam had the WMD's that Bush talked about or if the WMD's were the reason we went to war so there really is no point of you writing this post to me.

Now I just have a question, how those 20 year-old deteriorated mustard gas shells were posing a threat to the United States requiring the US to invade first ? What was Saddam secret's strategy to drop those 500 rusty shells on the US soil ?

The Iraqi and Taliban governments were meeting with each other. That's all the reason I need to play connect the dots and see that chemical weapons might have exchanged hands to the Taliban in the near future and then on to Al-Qaeda. Whether or not this would've happened is irrelavant to me. Saddam needed to go.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Haha ! Mobboss we've won ! We're the best ! The other side is made of losers hahaha !

I've been waiting for this day Marla... btw I saw that fight almost break out in the French Parlament? Over the Airbus, good stuff.

 

[Marla_Singer]

The Iraqi and Taliban governments were meeting with each other. That's all the reason I need to play connect the dots and see that chemical weapons might have exchanged hands to the Taliban in the near future and then on to Al-Qaeda. Whether or not this would've happened is irrelavant to me. Saddam needed to go.

Alright... so now there were connections between the Iraqi and the Taliban goverments... Wait, the same Taliban government who didn't exist anymore after November 2001 ?

Those evil secular fundamentalist terrorists are really tricky ! But I know that if we annihilate Mecca half of the problem would be solved, right Mobboss ?

 

[IglooDame]

Saddam set a precedent over his first twenty years in office: he launched unprovoked wars against two of his neighbors. For all of recorded history, that has constituted sufficient grounds for non-involved nations (i.e. nations that were never attacked by the invader) to strike back at the invader with devastating force.

Yet, when it happens in 2003, most of the world's leaders and two-thirds of CFC members flip a 180 and say it's not okay to shoot at somebody unless they invade YOU specifically.

Okay, we all gave Saddam the beat-down in '91 that he so richly deserved. Did he launch an unprovoked attack on anyone in 2003?

The claim by the anti-war camp was that there were NO WMD's IN IRAQ AT ALL. The fact that we found some of any kind, dilapidated or not, usable or not, throws that claim into doubt.

I can say that I specifically remember saying that the reason the Administration knew there was WMDs in Iraq was because we gave them some a decade or so earlier. To... ummm... help them in their unprovoked war with the Iranians, right?

 

[usarmy18]

Alright... so now there were connections between the Iraqi and the Taliban goverments... Wait, the same Taliban government who didn't exist anymore after November 2001 ?

Those same Taliban that still survive today as an insurgent group hiding in southern Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. You know those guys that in the past week or two we've blown the **** out of about 400 of them right?

Those evil secular fundamentalist terrorists are really tricky ! But I know that if we annihilate Mecca half of the problem would be solved, right Mobboss ?

I'm not MobBoss.

 

[Sidhe]

So now unusable chemicle weapons constitute weapons of mass destruction, oh straw man how we grasp at thee, I didn't realise people were offering this as an argument, I kind of assumed it was a joke?

 

[usarmy18]

So now unusable chemicle weapons constitute weapons of mass destruction, oh straw man how we grasp at thee, I didn't realise people were offering this as an argument, I kind of assumed it was a joke?

Where do you get that they are unusable?

 

[MamboJoel]

Anyway the discovery of such an impressive arsenal doesn't seem to cause too much emotion compared to the daily drama we described us three years ago... Can't feel to much of an earthquake going on.
Well, as long as I don't hear anything about freedom mustard, I guess the issue isn't a big deal.

 

[Paradigne]

How soon we forget:

The Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway, usually referred to in the Japanese media as the 地下鉄サリン事件 (chikatetsu sarin jiken "subway sarin incident") was an act of domestic terrorism perpetrated by members of the religious group Aum Shinrikyo on March 20, 1995.

In five coordinated attacks, the conspirators released sarin gas on several lines of the Tokyo Subway, killing twelve people, seriously injuring 54, and creating vision problems for nearly a thousand more patients. The attack was directed against trains passing through Kasumigaseki and Nagatacho, home to the Japanese government. This was (and remains, as of 2006) the most serious attack that has occurred in Japan since the end of the Second World War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway

But don't worry... It's harmless...

 

[MobBoss]

Alright I agree. Bush has never talked about WMD programs, he was assuming that Saddam had kept few gas shells from the Iran-Iraq war, and that Saddam had let those weapons getting deteriorated on purpose... to hide them better. I agree that all this seems very well-planned.

Actually part of the reason for the war Marla was that Saddam never, ever came clean and allowed full access for UN weapons inspectors to find and destroy WMDs like these chemical weapons. Even the final UN resolution called for use of force if Saddam didnt comply - he didnt. Bush didnt ONLY talk about WMD programs. I remind you...we have also found 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, 1.7 tons of other radioactive material and more recently 1500 gallons of precursor chemicals of the type used to create WMDs.

You people are like the AFLAC Duck in that commercial, except you run around yelling "PROGRAM". Kind of a like someone affected by Tourettes Syndrome....spouting "PROGRAM, PROGRAM"!!! uncontrollably.

Now I just have a question, how those 20 year-old deteriorated mustard gas shells were posing a threat to the United States requiring the US to invade first ? What was Saddam secret's strategy to drop those 500 rusty shells on the US soil ?

I dont know. Why dont you tell me why he didnt destroy them when he said he did and why the UN weapons inspectors never found this stuff when actively looking for it?

Maybe he was thinking about giving them to his great friends of Al-Qaeda ?

Well, he did give his friends the Iranians his fighter jets during the first Gulf War didnt he? WHY YES HE DID.

Haha ! Mobboss we've won ! We're the best ! The other side is made of losers hahaha !

Uhm...exactly when did I pull out the Pom-Poms and start the Rah-Rah? If your only defense is to try and attack me in this manner then you truly are weak in your argument. Another tactic of the atypical debate loser. Very nice.

 

[IglooDame]

12 dead, 54 injured. I'm absolutely not making light of 12 people dying, but that hardly qualifies as "mass destruction" in my book.

Perhaps there's a terminology problem here. WMDs =/= NBC weapons. All WMDs are apparently NBC weapons, but not all NBC weapons are WMDs.

 

[Paradigne]

These were 12 people with small quantities of the substance. Not full fledged weapons.

 

[usarmy18]

12 dead, 54 injured. I'm absolutely not making light of 12 people dying, but that hardly qualifies as "mass destruction" in my book.

Perhaps there's a terminology problem here. WMDs =/= NBC weapons. All WMDs are apparently NBC weapons, but not all NBC weapons are WMDs.

Sarin is classified as a Weapon of Mass Destruction by the UN.

 

[IglooDame]

Well, he did give his friends the Iranians his fighter jets during the first Gulf War didnt he? WHY YES HE DID.

Sure, and I bet they made nice replacements for the F-14s THAT WE GAVE IRAN.

Did "Saddam give Iran fighter jets" or did "Iraqi pilots flee to Iran in their jets knowing they'd get blown out of the sky in a heartbeat if they went up against allied airpower"?

 

[Bronx Warlord]

What if that was just a small dose IG, what if say... several more attacks of that size happened in more stations. you would have closer to 1,200 KIA and at least 5 or 6K in WIA.

Very messy.

 

[Sidhe]

Where do you get that they are unusable?

Didn't it say they were forgotten weapons? I consider that unusable if the government doesn't know they are there, not exactly a threat, and anyway WMD was meant to mean nukes and we all know it, which is another reason this crap is just a strawman.

I saw something about mustard gas, where did Sarin come from, now I'll have to read this again, nah forget it it wont be any more revealing of anything the second time no doubt.

 

[IglooDame]

Sarin is classified as a Weapon of Mass Destruction by the UN.

Since when does the US care what the UN thinks vis-a-vis Iraq?