On Duterte

[CavLancer]

The president of the Philippines that is. He was mayor of Davao, a largeish city in Mindanao. Think of it as a huge Dodge city hooked on drugs which was supported by crime. It was going to hell, fast. The panicked citizens vote in Duterte who immediately starts a war on drugs by actually going to war, open season on pushers. Police and vigilantes are turned loose to go shoot drug pushers. Corrupt local politicians, bureaucrats, and police are taken down and the extent of their corruption exposed. Think war in the streets to rid the city of drugs. Think all those kids who made a bad decision and whose lives are going downhill fast saved by the bell. The drug in the Philippines is meth, known as 'Shabu', and if you want to know the effects of meth, here ya go. Isn't pretty...

So Davao was one of the, if not the most crime ridden cities in the Philippines before 'Duterte Harry' got in and cleaned the place up. Now you may not like his methods, you may point at the death toll, but go watch the video. War is hell and in war the rules change. The nation was so amazed at Duterte's accomplishments in Davao that when he ran for pres he won fairly handily. The war on drugs went big time, and big names are falling to the effort. Police generals who were being paid fortunes by the drug cartels are being prosecuted. Mayors, police chiefs, many corrupt have lost everything. The price of Shabu, according to this, is roughly 9 times what it was before Duterte.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/10/09/1631807/drug-war-success-shabu-prices

Lives are being saved by this national effort. The war on drugs is being won, one pusher at a time. Kids can go to college now and the parents don't have to worry. What's that worth? As a parent its huge. As I told my neighbor, a Filipino gentleman, Duterte doesn't have to get anything else right. No other president anywhere can make the same claim. What do Filipinos think of him? They love him to generalize. Now, he doesn't like the US much, but like I said, my kids will be safer in school. Who cares about international stuff when the nation was being consumed and now is being freed?

Here's some other stuff he's gotten right.

This is why some in the US say they want him next. The peoples of many nations are sick of drugs or sick from drugs. Hate the guy if you will, but he is much loved at home. Not for everything, he just burriedn Marcos in the heroes cemetery, but for a lot of damn good reasons, in my opinion.

Little hard to understand, but you can get the gist.

Discuss

 

[Kozmos]

Okay, all that said and done, do you think he will simply step down later when his time is up or not install his own brand of corruption?

 

[CavLancer]

Okay, all that said and done, do you think he will simply step down later when his time is up or not install his own brand of corruption?

Actually no, I recently saw him say he has cancer and expects to die. His VP, they are elected separately here, will end all this. The effect should last a while however. Perhaps until Duterte's daughter, now mayor of Davao, gets in next election and finishes the job. Apparently she didn't fall far from the tree.

 

[Ajidica]

There is something just not quite right when a president says "I killed three people" and the international reaction is "yeah, we assumed as much".

 

[CavLancer]

I guess he didn't want to ask the cops to do something he wasn't willing to do himself. At least I hope that's the reason.

 

[Hygro]

He's evil.

 

[CavLancer]

Meth is worse.

 

[Bootstoots]

Well, someone who is willing to take the state's power and use it to launch a brutal crackdown on a crime wave often will achieve a fairly dramatic success early on. Time will tell, though, whether this actually helps or hurts crime in the long run. The classic case of a crackdown that backfired was the Mexican crackdown starting in 2006, where a fragile equilibrium among various drug cartels and the state and federal governments was shattered and a six-digit number of deaths resulted, with no end in sight even today, a decade later. That said, the Philippines is more of a destination country than a source country for drug trafficking, so the results could be different. The result could easily be a broad-based decline in crime, at the expense of allowing arbitrary and brutal police rule to supplant arbitrary and brutal criminal rule. I call this outcome the Gaddafi-Assad equilibrium: there's nothing just or moral about it, but it keeps the peace, and removing the state terror results in even worse private terror.

 

[Kozmos]

The failure of institutions and system is always tragic, but I feel like he has set a bad precedent that will be exploited later on.

 

[CavLancer]

Well, someone who is willing to take the state's power and use it to launch a brutal crackdown on a crime wave often will achieve a fairly dramatic success early on. Time will tell, though, whether this actually helps or hurts crime in the long run. The classic case of a crackdown that backfired was the Mexican crackdown starting in 2006, where a fragile equilibrium among various drug cartels and the state and federal governments was shattered and a six-digit number of deaths resulted, with no end in sight even today, a decade later. That said, the Philippines is more of a destination country than a source country for drug trafficking, so the results could be different. The result could easily be a broad-based decline in crime, at the expense of allowing arbitrary and brutal police rule to supplant arbitrary and brutal criminal rule. I call this outcome the Gaddafi-Assad equilibrium: there's nothing just or moral about it, but it keeps the peace, and removing the state terror results in even worse private terror.

People feel safer however, he's a success. Well pushers don't feel safer but... Our peace here is rather peaceful and I had a pleasant chat with an officer at my daughters school. The feeling is that these guys are on our side.

 

[CavLancer]

The failure of institutions and system is always tragic, but I feel like he has set a bad precedent that will be exploited later on.

Well we had Marcos, and the solution was 3 million brave Filipinos pouring out into the streets of Manila to protect a military unit that revolted against him from other military units sent to crush them. The first time unarmed civilians defended a military unit, anywhere. Known as 'The People Power Revolution' or the EDSA revolution. Filipinos are great folks, they don't put up with stuff they don't like. People in the US seem to think its the lawyers who defend them from government excess, but its really the folks. That's why government can't get away with stuff the people don't like. The lessons of People Power are not forgotten. I'd guess those millions would take to the streets in a heartbeat these days.

Funny comic I once saw of aq medieval king and his advisor. The advisor says, "Yes my liege, they are all %#^&$s, but when thousands of &%%&*s speak as one, we should listen."

The Filipinos know how to speak as one and are not afraid.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Meth is worse.

I dont know how but out of all the Asian nations Phillipines with US as it protectorate should have been like the other US protectorates, Japan, South Korea, Australia or Taiwan
It should be a well developed first world country, saddly its more like a poor third world with some areas of first world.

Its sad to see all these extra juristial killings, because of the corruption of the police. All killings have a question mark over them.
He is a terriable president, maybe he should have stuck with just policing, he mouth, poltical decision and cronyism is a high price to pay for this war on drugs

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-...ramed-on-drugs-charges-in-philippines/7925200

 

[Bootstoots]

People feel safer however, he's a success. Well pushers don't feel safer but... Our peace here is rather peaceful and I had a pleasant chat with an officer at my daughters school. The feeling is that these guys are on our side.

Of course people feel safer, at least for now. That's all part and parcel of these sorts of crackdowns. It might stay that way, it might not. He'll definitely push the Philippines in the direction of authoritarian nationalism, but that's where the world seems to be going now anyway. is right.

 

[CavLancer]

I dont know how but out of all the Asian nations Phillipines with US as it protectorate should have been like the other US protectorates, Japan, South Korea, Australia or Taiwan
It should be a well developed first world country, saddly its more like a poor third world with some areas of first world.

Its sad to see all these extra juristial killings, because of the corruption of the police. All killings have a question mark over them.
He is a terriable president, maybe he should have stuck with just policing, he mouth, poltical decision and cronyism is a high price to pay for this war on drugs

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-...ramed-on-drugs-charges-in-philippines/7925200

Its 3rd world because of Markos. That's why people were pissed when Duterte planted him in the heroes cemetery. Lot of heroes rolling over imo. Typical gold faucets, his wife flying to Paris to buy shoes. Horrible. Duterte isn't like that, and likely won't live out his term. We'll see whgat happens I guess.

 

[CavLancer]

Of course people feel safer, at least for now. That's all part and parcel of these sorts of crackdowns. It might stay that way, it might not. He'll definitely push the Philippines in the direction of authoritarian nationalism, but that's where the world seems to be going now anyway. is right.

I guess we'll see. They were pushing him to run for pres for an age, but he resisted. Now at the end of his life he took it up. I wonder if he regrets it?

 

[sophie]

When you treat people like criminals, they tend to turn into criminals. That's what the US criminal-justice system has shown.

 

[CavLancer]

When you treat people like criminals, they tend to turn into criminals. That's what the US criminal-justice system has shown.

Don't see the association? The police everywhere vknow more than they can act on. When Duterte turned them loose, they knew who to shoot. So these pushers were being treated like pushers. Sure, it is likely that some innocents have died. If I was one I might be more critical as well as dead. However how many kids have died in the US from drugs? Did you watch the videos? THey are the heart of the OP.

 

[Berzerker]

He's evil.

Meth is worse.

Using meth is worse than murder?

I used it many moons ago when I drove a tow truck for a living, it kept me awake when coffee wouldn't. Speed/uppers have been used by soldiers, truckers, and various professional drivers, athletes, people needing to lose weight, etc... I had two relatives die from alcoholism and the cemeteries are filled with people planted 6 ft under because of booze and tobacco. Your hero has cancer... Was he a smoker?
The images of addicts are a cautionary tale, but I suspect they were injecting the stuff and obviously not taking care of themselves. Yet millions of people have used the drug(s) without becoming skin and bones.

"Methedrine won the Battle of Britain"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alertness

 

[sophie]

Kids in the US die from drugs because the system treats them like degenerates and criminals and meets admission of guilt, or even assumption of guilt with violence. Health and Recovery centers to help addicts get clean, decriminalization, and destigmatization help a lot more in the long run.

Trust me. The US has tried the "tough on crime" shtick several times in the past. It never works. Even if early results seem promising, in the long run the costs always end up outweighing the gains.

 

[CavLancer]

The US hasn't tried shooting the pushers yet.

Here's Ron White on capital punishment in Texas ...