Only 30 Civs in base game (+ Shawnee)

[sonicmyst]

Still wondering when will Philippines come up as a civ in a civ game (not as a mod).

Like: Kingdom of Tondo or Maguindanao to Spanish Philippines to Philippine Republic

 

[gdr_willter]

I meant it would still be called Korea but based off of Joseon dynasty. But you're probably right it will be called Joseon, or Joseon Korea if there are more in earlier ages.
Technically Korea isn't even the name of the modern nation-state as it's split between North and South Korea.

Technically Korea is originally the name of Goguryeo(called themselves as Goryeo at last days) and Goryeo dynasties. "Goryeo" had become "Korea" through the foreign merchants. Joseon dynasty never used the name Korea, and even they tried to stop Europeans calling them Korea. If FXS decides to make Joseon civ in modern age, it sould have the proper name of its dynasty, not Korea.

 

[Kyriakos]

Coming back to the Americas, while it is very good that Inca seems to be in the first game, accounting for how many (minor, in some eras) civs they have in Asia, couldn't they spare a couple (or just one) positions so as to not have Maya advance to Inca?
Hopefully Maya doesn't also "advance" to Spain

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Coming back to the Americas, while it is very good that Inca seems to be in the first game, accounting for how many (minor, in some eras) civs they have in Asia, couldn't they spare a couple (or just one) positions so as to not have Maya advance to Inca?
Hopefully Maya doesn't also "advance" to Spain

I have a notion that the Maya transition options are Inca or Hawaii.

 

[Zaarin]

Coming back to the Americas, while it is very good that Inca seems to be in the first game, accounting for how many (minor, in some eras) civs they have in Asia, couldn't they spare a couple (or just one) positions so as to not have Maya advance to Inca?
Hopefully Maya doesn't also "advance" to Spain

I've posted before that the Maya are a solid candidate for a China/India-style through-line: Maya > Mayapan > Yucatec. I'm not really expecting that, sadly, but I'm sure we'll at least see the Aztecs sooner than later...

 

[Zaarin]

I have a notion that the Maya transition options are Inca or Hawaii.

Probably also Shawnee.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Probably also Shawnee.

Yes, if the player has them.

 

[Xandinho]

Still wondering when will Philippines come up as a civ in a civ game (not as a mod).

Like: Kingdom of Tondo or Maguindanao to Spanish Philippines to Philippine Republic

The Kingdom of Tondo is a great option for more Southeast Asian representation, as I don't think they'll just stick with Khmer, Majapahit, and Siam.

Edit. By the way, the Sultanate of Brunei is a great option for a second modern representation of Southeast Asia, alongside Siam.

 

[Historrick]

It seems almost impossible to come up with a sensible progression for many of the civs we know about, given the cap of 30 civilizations (excluding the Shawnee). If every civ has to have a 'default' path, then it probably means that there are 10 default pathways, with every civ put on exactly one of them. Civs will have another one or two secondary pathways, and maybe these will change as DLC civs are added, but I think the base game 30 civs will all need to initially be put on one of those 10 paths.

This is the best that I can come up with - some seem unlikely choices and others feel unnatural in their progression, but I've tried to force things into roughly the same area of the world...

Aksum - Songhai - Buganda
Egypt - Abbasids - Ottomans
Rome - Normans - France
Han China - Ming China - Qing China
Maurya India - Chola India - Mughal India
Khmer - Majapahit/Indonesia - Japan
Maya - Spain - Mexico
Mississippians - Polynesia/Hawaii - America
Greece - Hungary/Bulgaria - Germany
Persia/Scythia - Mongolia - Russia

No Britain seems an odd choice, but they're not technically confirmed. I originally had Normans - Britain as the default here, but there's no great alternative option for France who are confirmed. Maya into Spain as the default pathway also feels horrible but none of the other revealed Antiquity era civs make sense as the default other than Rome, who have already been assigned the Normans. Mississippi is also difficult to place here, because the Shawnee make the most sense but that doesn't work for players who don't get the DLC.

I'm optimistic that a lot of these will get changed as and when the player gets the associated DLC / these are easily moddable.

 

[Sagax]

Part of me still feels like Hawaii is a red herring, as it makes even the “regional” logic a huge stretch.

Do we know if independent states get their own architecture/unit styles if they come from a distinct region? Is it hard-confirmed that Hawaii has a wonder and not improvement/building?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Considering the first reference to the idea that Cortes was perceived as a god comes from decades after the conquest and quite possibly from Cortes's overinflated view of himself...I would be very annoyed. Contemporary accounts seem to suggest that the Aztecs didn't consider Cortes's landing party even worth their notice until it became a full-scale uprising. So was Montezuma II arrogant and culpably complacent? Yes. An easily cowed superstitious primitive? Probably not.

I mean I don't expect it to happen, I just wouldn't be annoyed if it happened. Compared to Pedro II hating you for recruiting Great People, or Wilhelmina hating you for not trading, that to me seems pretty tame.
If we get a Montezuma back it will most likely be Montezuma I anyways.

It seems almost impossible to come up with a sensible progression for many of the civs we know about, given the cap of 30 civilizations (excluding the Shawnee). If every civ has to have a 'default' path, then it probably means that there are 10 default pathways, with every civ put on exactly one of them. Civs will have another one or two secondary pathways, and maybe these will change as DLC civs are added, but I think the base game 30 civs will all need to initially be put on one of those 10 paths.

This is the best that I can come up with - some seem unlikely choices and others feel unnatural in their progression, but I've tried to force things into roughly the same area of the world...

Aksum - Songhai - Buganda
Egypt - Abbasids - Ottomans
Rome - Normans - France
Han China - Ming China - Qing China
Maurya India - Chola India - Mughal India
Khmer - Majapahit/Indonesia - Japan
Maya - Spain - Mexico
Mississippians - Polynesia/Hawaii - America
Greece - Hungary/Bulgaria - Germany
Persia/Scythia - Mongolia - Russia

No Britain seems an odd choice, but they're not technically confirmed. I originally had Normans - Britain as the default here, but there's no great alternative option for France who are confirmed. Maya into Spain as the default pathway also feels horrible but none of the other revealed Antiquity era civs make sense as the default other than Rome, who have already been assigned the Normans. Mississippi is also difficult to place here, because the Shawnee make the most sense but that doesn't work for players who don't get the DLC.

Siam is essentially confirmed as Modern through screenshots, and we've also seen screenshots of the Inca. We have yet to see anything regarding the Ottomans.
Maya>Inca>Mexico is more likely, but I'm sure Spain could get to Mexico too, just not through the Maya.

 

[Xandinho]

Part of me still feels like Hawaii is a red herring, as it makes even the “regional” logic a huge stretch.

Do we know if independent states get their own architecture/unit styles if they come from a distinct region? Is it hard-confirmed that Hawaii has a wonder and not improvement/building?

Hawaii may be one of the paths that leads to America. And I have a slight suspicion that it may lead to Meiji Japan as well.

Siam is essentially confirmed as Modern through screenshots, and we've also seen screenshots of the Inca. We have yet to see anything regarding the Ottomans.
Maya>Inca>Mexico is more likely, but I'm sure Spain could get to Mexico too, just not through the Maya.

If the player doesn't have Shawnee, I see Mississippians going to Incas. I can also see Mayans going to Shawnee and this one going to Mexico.

 

[Historrick]

I mean I don't expect it to happen, I just wouldn't be annoyed if it happened. Compared to Pedro II hating you for recruiting Great People, or Wilhelmina hating you for not trading, that to me seems pretty tame.
If we get a Montezuma back it will most likely be Montezuma I anyways.

Siam is essentially confirmed as Modern through screenshots, and we've also seen screenshots of the Inca. We have yet to see anything regarding the Ottomans.
Maya>Inca>Mexico is more likely, but I'm sure Spain could get to Mexico too, just not through the Maya.

I've assumed that the dev team would want there to be a default natural progression for every civ, so that when you play a full game, there's actually a chance of seeing every civ. If there isn't a default route, then those civs are unlikely to appear as an opponent in single player games without an advanced start. As ugly as it is, I don't know which Antiquity era civ would lead into Spain (given that Rome would already be taken) other than the Maya. The same for Meiji Japan - Siam is a much nicer choice for something coming originally from Khmer, but then I have no idea where Japan would go.

It might just be that the devs don't care too much if some civs are unlikely to appear in the game, or if some civs have no default paths and are chosen entirely at random on era progression.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I've assumed that the dev team would want there to be a default natural progression for every civ, so that when you play a full game, there's actually a chance of seeing every civ. If there isn't a default route, then those civs are unlikely to appear as an opponent in single player games without an advanced start. As ugly as it is, I don't know which Antiquity era civ would lead into Spain (given that Rome would already be taken) other than the Maya. The same for Meiji Japan - Siam is a much nicer choice for something coming originally from Khmer, but then I have no idea where Japan would go.

It might just be that the devs don't care too much if some civs are unlikely to appear in the game, or if some civs have no default paths and are chosen entirely at random on era progression.

It will get filled in over time with DLC civs and expansions. Meiji Japan will probably get an Edo/Shogunate Japan down the road but for the base game they will proably either come from Majapahit or Ming China.

Spain would probably just come from Rome or Greece, because of being European right now.

 

[ehecatzin]

neither Crossroads of the world, or Right to rule DLC sound particulary related to mesoamerica, if anything it sounds like the first rounds of DLC will go to fleshing out mesopotamia and Europe.

a better path for native civs will probably take until later so we'll have to do with Mayan/Inca/Mexico it seems

 

[Xandinho]

I don't know which Antiquity era civ would lead into Spain (given that Rome would already be taken) other than the Maya. The same for Meiji Japan - Siam is a much nicer choice for something coming originally from Khmer, but then I have no idea where Japan would go.

Majapahit will certainly go to Siam. It may not be the most historically appropriate path, but it's still better than some other regions. Almost 100% certain that Spain will come from the Romans, nothing prevents a civ from transitioning into more than one civ in the next era. Meiji Japan seems out of place, really, but I suspect it will come from Hawaii, or Majapahit (or even Ming, as controversial as that is).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Meiji Japan seems out of place, really, but I suspect it will come from Hawaii, or Majapahit (or even Ming, as controversial as that is).

Hawaii to Japan seems weird when you consider Pearl Harbor.

 

[Zaarin]

Hawaii to Japan seems weird when you consider Pearl Harbor.

That was after a hostile takeover, though.

 

[Xandinho]

neither Crossroads of the world, or Right to rule DLC sound particulary related to mesoamerica, if anything it sounds like the first rounds of DLC will go to fleshing out mesopotamia and Europe.

a better path for native civs will probably take until later so we'll have to do with Mayan/Inca/Mexico it seems

Right to Rule seems very subjective. I believe it will be about leaders/civs who have a history of resistance against a foreign power, and this applies to many civs from several places in the world.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Hawaii to Japan seems weird when you consider Pearl Harbor.

Japan was attacking an American base, not the indigenous people of Hawaii. I don't think there's any ill will against the Japanese for it. At least, not more ill will than Hawaiians feel towards the US for overthrowing their monarchy to appease business interests. And as Pacific island groups, there's a regional connection between the two.

PS Hawaii is actually a popular tourist destination for Japan nowadays.