Orbis Bug Thread (Old)

[Kalina]

Scions adepts are not getting Scion-specific Body spells, getting normal ones instead. I'm playing patch m, but don't see anything about it in new changelog, so I assume it wasn't reported yet.

 

[tokala]

The seemingly random crashes some people are seeing might be related to stuff imported from/shared with RifE. For me occasional unreproducible crashes during map generation/after turn one/during game play happen both with Orbis and RifE under Win7, not under WinXP. In addition some system settings/Driver status seem to affect the frequency of the crashes, so maybe some deeper problem there.

I think for Rife it was established that primarily Vista/Win7 users were experiencing random crashes, especially during map generation and after turn 1.

For the record: i use almost exclusively the MountainCoast mapscript, standard size, and it is very much playable. Around 10% crashing up to turn 2, after that maybe once every 200 turns, but can be circumvented by reloading or deleting some random unit in worldbuilder.

 

[Valkrionn]

I have copied the entire formula, did not change any values.
Will check how taht works before adjusting values. Good for balancing it in both Orbis and RifE.
Only modifications I did are :
civic boosting adventurer spawning - there is no apprentieceship in Orbis, so I have changed it to city states. Fits quite well IMO.
due to the lack of museums in Orbis (but that may change soon), museum mod is replaced by temple mod It counts number of Dagda's memorials, Grigori unique pagan temples.

Yeah, I think using approximately the same thing in both mods is best for now. Helps balance it.

I'm really not sure on it's balance atm... I THINK it's pretty good, but haven't had reports one way or the other yet.

City States fits too... I think Apprenticeship is better though.

Dagda's Memorial? What's it do?

 

[Master_Hugian]

Upgrading a adventurer to a scout gave me 26 gold

 

[w. irving]

The hero promotion gives a 100% discount on upgrades and the adventurer promotion gives a 50% discount. These are additive so an adventurer, which has both, actually gains half the normal upgrade cost.

(I've personally given adventurer a 100% discount, and allowed units with hero and/or adventurer to also be led by a great general (which also gives 100% discount) so occasionally I gain twice the gold it would normally cost to upgrade.)

 

[Dzhel]

I'm always looking forward to the next version of Orbis and am very grateful for all the effort that helps make it so great.

Getting ready to check out N now but wanted to chime in on the amount of crashes since Ahwaric asked. I almost never have crashes. It's very rare I'm happy to say. Although none of my friends are into Civ so I play solo so I'm not sure how multiplayer holds up. But from what I hear, multiplayer is tricky not just for Orbis.

 

[tokala]

Some funky stuff, I'm new to Orbis, so no clue if at least some of this is intended:

-Arcane Bambur: Bambur can learn new arcane spells
-Chain-reacting werewolves: Baron kills unit - Ravenous werewolf spawns which immediately attacks, if victorious spawning the next werewolf, which attacks, etc. etc. If victim is a worker, no chaining, ravenous is promoted to Blooded and gains experience but is getting no elegible promotions
-Kuriotates super-settlement: A captured city that has tiles with Kurio culture in its BFC can select tiles in the second ring during the initial unrest. These will continue to be worked after unrest is ended. Tiles in the second ring can also be selected when settlement is growing.
- (Rohanna) Catapults can use enemy roads, Archer and Horsearchers cannot.
- Workers operating on a "non-open" border getting displaced by border expansion continue with their task on the new tile.

Documentation issue: it not clear (at least not for me), why most civs cannot build "the wild haven" (probably only allowed for the "animal friendly" ones?).

 

[Merddyn]

... As I know a few of you lurking here also browse the Fall Further bug thread (and I currently don't have the patience to write out a full summary right now)...

Remember that fireball/summon bug in Fall Further? The one that increases your unit supply costs whenever a temporary summon/fireball gets killed from combat outside your territory? ... Orbis has that bug, too.

 

[Belizan]

In Patch N:

Horse Archers do not get archery promotions or the duskwood bow promotion
In the event where merchants from one city are assassinating merchants in another city, even though both options say 5 temporary unhappiness, they cause 5 turns of unrest instead.
Forts in another player's cultural zone can not be taken over (even without a fort commander)
Neither Enchanted Blade or Flame Arrow can be cast on a horse archer

Also, not so much a bug as a thought that occurred to us while playing, if you have the flesh golem, and you graft an animal handling unit to it, can it get a totem? What if graft a unit with a totem already? Or two different units each with a different totem?

More if and when...

 

[Ahwaric]

Scions adepts are not getting Scion-specific Body spells, getting normal ones instead. I'm playing patch m, but don't see anything about it in new changelog, so I assume it wasn't reported yet.

I thought it is a good idea to allow haste on adepts. Also, replenish is quite powerfull, but I think I can exchange the spells. Should I?

Yeah, I think using approximately the same thing in both mods is best for now. Helps balance it.
I'm really not sure on it's balance atm... I THINK it's pretty good, but haven't had reports one way or the other yet.
Dagda's Memorial? What's it do?

I agree - both that it helps balancing and that is balanced preety good. No complains so far
I forgot dagdas memorial bonuses, but I think it has minor culture/gpp extras on top of standard pagan temples.

Upgrading a adventurer to a scout gave me 26 gold

Yeah, I need to cap it at -100%. -150% gives you gold

(I've personally given adventurer a 100% discount, and allowed units with hero and/or adventurer to also be led by a great general (which also gives 100% discount) so occasionally I gain twice the gold it would normally cost to upgrade.)

I always thought that adventurers are special unit, a few exceptional men. So adding a general seems a bit weird (plus it is a bit overpowered...). And hero led by great general... "Valin, charge their left flank... then when you are fighting, you should attack them from the other side..."
@Dzhel Thanks!

I have to go now, will answer to the rest of the reports later.

 

[Kalina]

I thought it is a good idea to allow haste on adepts. Also, replenish is quite powerfull, but I think I can exchange the spells. Should I?

Right now, haste doesn't affect undead, so it's not very useful for Scions. Body spells are part of Scions uniqueness, I see no reason to change this. You can always nerf replenish if you think it's too powerful (like adding one turn delay), but I see Scions army as a slow, but powerful units not fast ones. But, of course, it's not a big deal if you want to change it, I just can't see why
Oh, and btw - shouldn't Valor affect undead ? It's level 3 spell in sphere that can be granted by Alicinus Keep, but it's useless for Scions.

 

[w. irving]

Yeah, I need to cap it at -100%. -150% gives you gold

Just reduce the Hero discount to 50%. The Adventurer unit has both and will get free upgrades, units that gain Adventurer from a lair and units that get Hero the War Games event will have half cost upgrades...

No other Hero units (or Lucain with Adventurer) upgrade at all so it shouldn't make a difference there.

I always thought that adventurers are special unit, a few exceptional men. So adding a general seems a bit weird (plus it is a bit overpowered...). And hero led by great general... "Valin, charge their left flank... then when you are fighting, you should attack them from the other side..."

Heh, I was thinking of it more as the adventurer or hero becomes the general (a Han Solo on Endor situation.) Also I didn't like the Adventurer promotion overwriting the Lead by Warlord promotion. I know the change log said you fixed that but I didn't notice an 'immune to Adventurer promotion' tag on the Lead by Warlord promotion...

Also on the off chance the War Games event triggers on a unit with a Great General I think gaining Hero will remove Lead By Warloard.

But you're right it is overpowered... I'll probably revert back making Hero and Adventurer (both 50% discount) immune to Lead by Warlord and Lead by Warlord (100% discount) immune to both Adventurer and Hero.

 

[tokala]

Next turn Hyborem spawns, declares war on everyone in sight, and ... dies
So, what happened?

 

[Ahwaric]

-Arcane Bambur: Bambur can learn new arcane spells

Channeling I removed. Will get new spells no more.

-Chain-reacting werewolves: Baron kills unit - Ravenous werewolf spawns which immediately attacks, if victorious spawning the next werewolf, which attacks, etc. etc. If victim is a worker, no chaining, ravenous is promoted to Blooded and gains experience but is getting no elegible promotions
-Kuriotates super-settlement: A captured city that has tiles with Kurio culture in its BFC can select tiles in the second ring during the initial unrest. These will continue to be worked after unrest is ended. Tiles in the second ring can also be selected when settlement is growing.

Ok, need to take a look at this. I am tempted to redesign werewolves, but not sure if I should change all to doviello model.

- (Rohanna) Catapults can use enemy roads, Archer and Horsearchers cannot.

Siege engines can use enemy roads - to make them more mobile and stick to the roads as expected. Other units need commando promotion - and only Tasunke grants it for free.

- Workers operating on a "non-open" border getting displaced by border expansion continue with their task on the new tile.

Weird one, will have to test it.

Documentation issue: it not clear (at least not for me), why most civs cannot build "the wild haven" (probably only allowed for the "animal friendly" ones?).

All civs can build it (I think). But you need animal cages in the city first.

Remember that fireball/summon bug in Fall Further? The one that increases your unit supply costs whenever a temporary summon/fireball gets killed from combat outside your territory? ... Orbis has that bug, too.

Thanks, will take care of it.

Horse Archers do not get archery promotions or the duskwood bow promotion

Ok, I can enable duskwood for them. But not sure about archery promotions. Should I let them keep these if upgraded to knights/griffon riders? Or should these be removed and refunded on upgrade?
By the way, should musketmen and such still get duskwood weapons?

In the event where merchants from one city are assassinating merchants in another city, even though both options say 5 temporary unhappiness, they cause 5 turns of unrest instead.

Will check that.

Forts in another player's cultural zone can not be taken over (even without a fort commander)

Forts belong to player that build/claimed one, no matter the culture. You need to claim it via spell.
If you can't claim the fort, you are either at peace with that civ or for commander is there, just invisible (I really need to make them immune to invisibility )

Neither Enchanted Blade or Flame Arrow can be cast on a horse archer

Ok, will enable flaming arrows. Should enchanted blade affect other mounted units?

Also, not so much a bug as a thought that occurred to us while playing, if you have the flesh golem, and you graft an animal handling unit to it, can it get a totem? What if graft a unit with a totem already? Or two different units each with a different totem?

Totems are removed during grafting.
Not sure if new one can be added if you get subdue promotions via grafting. Anyway, I should disable these two, too.

Right now, haste doesn't affect undead, so it's not very useful for Scions. Body spells are part of Scions uniqueness, I see no reason to change this. You can always nerf replenish if you think it's too powerful (like adding one turn delay), but I see Scions army as a slow, but powerful units not fast ones.

Ok, adepts will get necromancer training, too. Or should I just block the spell and allow replenish, while not allowing other bonuses (more complicated option).
I think heal is already quite common, plus easy to heal slow undead fit the flavour - that is why replenish ended as first lvl spell. So will keep it as it is for now, unless you people object.

Oh, and btw - shouldn't Valor affect undead ? It's level 3 spell in sphere that can be granted by Alicinus Keep, but it's useless for Scions.

It should. Actually, is there any flavour reason why it should not affect angels as well? Demons, mindless undead - well, that might be a bit strange, but angels & scions seem fine.

 

[tokala]

More minor stuff:
-genetic engineering: human warrior can upgrade to Centaur Charger
-Saw an AI explorer running over an empty fort in the wilderrness and not capturing it. -Are barbs supposed to pop graveyards?
-Grigori Adventure counter starts with +1 per turn, gets reset after first civic change to +3.75 (normal speed). Should probably be 3.75 from the start.
-Regarding the Auto-commando catapults: Flavourwise it's a really strange image of lumbering war machines charging ahead via road, leaving infantry and even nimble recon troops behind, with only cavalry able to keep up (I encountered this while moving troops through Illian territory). Would it be possible to generally restrict siege engines to roads, without granting the effects of a commando promotion?)

The AI is really good in boxing you in with agressive city placement and building up cultural pressure. Problem is, they garrison these offensive border cities only lighty. As this behaviour is rather predictable, it is quite easy to immediately destroy the new settlement, crippling the AI and costing it a settler and more often then not a culturebombed great artist.
BTW, can the Harpy event be set to trigger not before say turn 100 normal speed? Being Culturebombed in turn 25 is not fun. Apart from that, in the early game there is usually no real choice: either you have a high happy cap due to unique features next to your starting city (or being an AI ), then its a free artist; or you haven't, then 5 will effectively kill you, so you cannot afford this.

 

[Lark]

BTW, can the Harpy event be set to trigger not before say turn 100 normal speed? Being Culturebombed in turn 25 is not fun. Apart from that, in the early game there is usually no real choice: either you have a high happy cap due to unique features next to your starting city (or being an AI ), then its a free artist; or you haven't, then 5 will effectively kill you, so you cannot afford this.

I usually like it the way it is. I got it early in my current game - it did slow me down some, but the 3 Gold seemed worth it. Maybe consider an option to defer?
OTOH, hard choices are good. OTOOH, if the choice is just reroll or no, who cares?
As for an AI Civ getting it, I'm not normally close enough to them for it to matter (at least until they're far enough along they might be getting a Bard some other way).


Orbis patch N, Illians: - I can't get the Release Elephant ability to work with either Mammoths or Elephants.

- Judging by the bony guy I saw in the WB afterward, Decius got the Skeleton from the Ancient Grave event, threw all (or all but one) of his city defenders at it, and the Skeleton then moved into his defenseless city. B'bye, Dumb Deci. (Also, didn't I see a Shackled promo when I got it in another game?)

- Something also took out Varn Gosam without even leaving the killer behind - just the city ruins. I suspect another event. Wasn't there some event you were supposed to get if your starting city was about to get whacked by Barbs early? -Though I guess it couldn't work if it didn't have time to trigger.

- Samhain wasn't showing up (after Mysticism), then a good while later I looked and I could build it. I had recently researched Bronze Working and placed my third city; I don't suppose one or the other of those are undeclared prerequisites?


Thanks for all the work, Ahwaric.

 

[CladInShadows]

just played one of the scenarios, the one with the calabim, sheaim, elohim, malakim, both elves, etc

attaching decius to a unit gives them the 'attached commander' promotion, but decius is immediately reborn in the capital, duplicating himself. not a massive issue because i can't think of any where other than this paricular set of scenarios that you'd get an immortal great commander, but thought it was worth pointing out.

 

[bcr1776]

Cannot Explore features or lairs, cannot pick-up items, cannot cast simple spells.

Playing patch n with FFH2 patched to j.

DO NOT HAVE THE BUTTONS TO DO SO, sorry, stupid caps lock

 

[moshi]

~along tokala's comment about genetic engineering, i notice when playing as a conqueror civ that could build captured city's units (decius), my radiant guard could upgrade to an ogre.

~in my most recent game, the AI was immediately sending badly injured units who managed to escape into their borders back to the front without healing first, there was a stack of units outside my city with less then 1.0 health waiting to be destroyed.

~"recruit" seems to be granting way more troops than advertised, ended up with around 10 from a size 15 city instead of the 5 i expected. since the spell turned out being the only thing that saved me from inglorious defeat when mahala's invasion came i'm not exactly complaining.

very minor, but the flagellant civpedia should list gallows and not dungeon as the required building.

...

crap had a few more good ones that i've forgotten.

 

[Lark]

Repeatable CtD from this save. Can't get past it, even though I have "New Random Seed on Reload" on for this game. Oh, well. I hope there's something useful here for you; I can't figure it out.