Orbis - the original thread

[A Golden Dragon]

Edit:

I do not mind expanding CotD There is so much flavour we can use...
But I do not want to get qvazillion of other cults. White hand is almost entirelly illian, maybe doviello too. It is already covered by their special mechanics. Servants of Bhall - nice, but one is either orc or follows AV instead I think... The lizard thing would require Cualli - blood sacrifices are not really Mazatl thing...
Sorry for saying no... (well, sor of no) I am against adding something because we can - if there is nice mechanics that makes game better or a lot of flavour, I am all for it. But otherwise, Occam's Razor it is, that is why stewards of inequity had to go. I like their concept and might take another try at them, but 0.21 version was simply dull and meaningless. So got cut to make more space for other guilds.

just an idea, i really don't mind. perhaps better for game mechanics. But the depth that orbis brings with guilds and that sort of stuff. I really like it In our history there where lots of cults and minor religions... so then i got an idea not thinking about balance and complexity of the game.

how do you think in expanding CotD, units, buildings? anything i can help with?

 

[Ahwaric]

Is this stable enough to be able to finish a multiplayer game?
Does it create its own directory and launch icon or does it overwrite FFH2?
Looks fun I might try it this weekend.

Depends. I do not play much but I think it is stable. Unless you plan to use simultaneous turns, then it is untested but OOS were reported.
If you decide to use this option, then please do OOS logging and give me the logs in case of any problems.
ANyway, hotseat multi should be ok.

I have a problem with the updated version. In my games, units are "freezed" with the arms open - they move, but without animations - and sometimes there are no buttons for them in the interface (defend, move, etc).

The cause are missing animations - nothing to do with your machine or graphics settings.
Do all units behave like that?
If no, please let me know. There are still some units that I have not checked if they are animated properly after the addition of blood animation
If all/most of units do it, you probably installed withour patching FfH to y first.
Please do the following: Unistall orbis, then remove Orbis folder (if any), update FfH to y, then install Orbis and then update it to B

I would be far more in favor of giving Mechanos an asian theme. It's a civ we all know and is fairly balanced, and the change would give them even more flavor.

I do not like mechanos being asian in theme. They are based on renaissance (italian?) and european mad scientists
I am not that much into the asian civ, but that is certainly a civ flavour we do not have here. But there needs to b a good fantasy theme to them and a lot of thinking put into it, so do not expect it soon unless someone comes with an idea.
The civs should be unique, so if there is nothing I think fits them and fills a niche, I will not add them, especielly if there is no interest in them... Less work for me Or more time I can put to other modding uses.

just an idea, i really don't mind. perhaps better for game mechanics.
how do you think in expanding CotD, units, buildings? anything i can help with?

I have nothing against adding some (but not that much) cults. Just have to be given (or find for myself) a good reason to do so. I prefer one cult with a good mechanics and flavour than 4 that are all alike and boring.
Which gets us to CotD: any ideas?

 

[A Golden Dragon]

have you ever played the sword of sengoku in the expansion of civ III, it could provide with ideas for the asian civ...

i don't know if the game requires them although...on the other hand, i think the other "new" civ's are great to.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

CotD, many ideas

units:
dragon guard,
priest units of some kind, but not like the others..
perhaps lesser dragons (S 9-12) (limited number)
a greater dragon for the holder of the wyrmhold, wich can, only defend. (guardian of the wyrmhold)

buildings:
temple of some sort
lair (needed to breed lesser dragons)

religion related events:
finding a dragon fossil

well, i can think of lots of stuff.. just need some time

 

[Seon]

CotD, many ideas

units:
dragon guard,
priest units of some kind, but not like the others..
perhaps lesser dragons (S 9-12) (limited number)
a greater dragon for the holder of the wyrmhold, wich can, only defend. (guardian of the wyrmhold)

buildings:
temple of some sort
lair (needed to breed lesser dragons)

religion related events:
finding a dragon fossil

well, i can think of lots of stuff.. just need some time

Uhh... there are no lesser dragons in Erebus, they were all created to be weapons of gods. They were also designed to kill other dragons, so I cannot imagine them breeding, nor imagine that they have private parts. I cannot gurentee this as no one, not even Kael, managed to get that close to a dragon

 

[Giuseppe]

Please do the following: Unistall orbis, then remove Orbis folder (if any), update FfH to y, then install Orbis and then update it to B

It worked, problem fixed. Thank you!

 

[Isotope]

Hello Ahwaric, great mod and awesome work with Orbis 22
I was wondering wether Orbi ModMod uses BetterAi (I think not but lately I could't play long games). Maybe it's time to improve AI a little like Notque does.
Also, I think CotD should be moved to a different tech since you can't found it if you start in the Classical Era (or at least while I started playing with Kuriotates for a couple of turns, there was no announcement of CotD being founded).

 

[sputnik323]

@ Ahwaric - You are right, and if thinking realistically snow is not the best source of food. However, IMHO I don't think the problem is with plains or the tiles, it is the desirability of snow areas (winter tiles) vs normal tiles. As it stands I think it is more desirable to NOT build the temple of the hand because there is more diversity of tiles. Grassland on a whole seems to be the most desirable, especially because you can usually find hill tiles to take the place of production. (for example a city going from plains and grassland producing food to grow, to then only "plains like tiles" and starving.) I think the idea you had about giving an extra food on tundra would be the best solution, and then the temple of the hand converting either plains or grassland to tundra and the other into snow. Then converting to winter tiles would at least be as desirable; even if not as much as in FFH. Also making all snow/tundra tiles "freshwater" tiles for the Illians could make winter tiles more desirable, or that alone could be a solution if the tiles were not changed to tundra (especially since there are less lakes/rivers created in the north/south parts of the maps). Snow and ice are the biggest sources of freshwater in the world

EDIT: lol I just saw the proposed changes for patch C including the changes tundra, so I guess you already planned the change . Will the Temple of the hand produce some tundra tiles then?

 

[Opera]

I have a great game with Volanna. I really like the incorporation of minor leaders into Orbis; it gives more diversity to the leaders, like a leader that I find cool-looking for the Mechanos (even though when I played them to try, I couldn't find any mana node ). Three questions:

What is that "adventurer" promotion? Not the Grigori unit, a promotion that some of my units have gained, apparently randomly(?).

Isn't the Cult of the Dragon supposed to be founded by the first civ of three (one being the Sheaim) discovers mysticism? The Cult hasn't been founded in my game; the Sheaim are there and I'm pretty sure they discovered Mysticism.

It seemed strange to me that the minor mazatl leader (Khset?) could adopt a state religion. Is this intended?

I'm sure I have more questions... but it seems I have forgotten them right now. Time to sleep.

 

[Dzhel]

Please correct any of this that I might have wrong but in an attempt to answer Opera's questions...

As far as I can gather, the adventurer promotion is sometimes gained (% chance perhaps?) when a unit explores a dungeon, lair, burrow, etc. It's a nice promotion and I tend to make these guys my "hero" units and will give them names and try to keep them alive and level them.

Also, for the CotD, I believe it's foundable only by the Kuriotates, Mazatl, and Sheaim. I don't belive it's founded in the traditional sense in that you get any kind of announcement that it's founded seeing as it's a secretive cult unless you're the one founding it. My current game I was the Kuriotates and I was first to mysticism and I founded it along with its holy city.

As far as the Mazatl religion goes, I don't ever remember them not being able to adopt a state religion. I've adopted Order playing as them a couple times throughought various versions of Orbis.

Hope I got most of this right and hope this helps.

 

[Valkrionn]

FF Mazatl are agnostic, which might be where the confusion comes from.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

Uhh... there are no lesser dragons in Erebus, they were all created to be weapons of gods. They were also designed to kill other dragons, so I cannot imagine them breeding, nor imagine that they have private parts. I cannot gurentee this as no one, not even Kael, managed to get that close to a dragon

a. lesser dragons don't have to be younger or born dragons. they could be created by the gods aswell, although weaker, im pretty sure the current dragons are not all equal in strength right now
b. kael never said they could not there is no reference to this point, so we could decide either way

but these where merely suggestions, i really don't expect that everything will be included, or anything at all

 

[MagisterCultuum]

No, the current dragons are far from equal in strength, although this isn't represented all that well. Eurabatres should be the strongest being the gods (not counting The One) ever created, making him greater than any archangel and maybe even than the god who used to be but an archangel. He is the archetype of the dragon, and all others are but poor imitations of his glory.


Kael has stated that some gods created one really strong dragon, while others created many weaker dragons, and others created none. However, the weaker dragons didn't survive very long. Most died in the Age of Dragons, and the rest were either permanently locked up or else slain in the Age of Magic. Drifa's resurrection seems to indicate these could be brought back, but that may take power only a god or near-god would have.



While it hasn't been completely ruled out, I think that it is highly unlikely for dragons to be able to reproduce.

 

[Opera]

As far as I can gather, the adventurer promotion is sometimes gained (% chance perhaps?) when a unit explores a dungeon, lair, burrow, etc. It's a nice promotion and I tend to make these guys my "hero" units and will give them names and try to keep them alive and level them.

Ok, that makes sense. It explains why all my adventurer-promoted units are concentrated in one city that is close to the wild; it's where they returned after a walk in the jungle! Thanks!

Also, for the CotD, I believe it's foundable only by the Kuriotates, Mazatl, and Sheaim. I don't belive it's founded in the traditional sense in that you get any kind of announcement that it's founded seeing as it's a secretive cult unless you're the one founding it. My current game I was the Kuriotates and I was first to mysticism and I founded it along with its holy city.

So, it doesn't even appear as founded in the religion screen?
BTW, CoE seems like it could be more a CotD mechanism than a complete religion. I mean, it seems like a think no civ would claim to support; it's a sort of secret company; you can't even know which city in the world has it! (Shouldn't you be able to see them with Nox Noctis?)

As far as the Mazatl religion goes, I don't ever remember them not being able to adopt a state religion. I've adopted Order playing as them a couple times throughought various versions of Orbis.

FF Mazatl are agnostic, which might be where the confusion comes from.

Well, that's what happens when you play two modmods... Thanks!

 

[Ahwaric]

Hello Ahwaric, great mod and awesome work with Orbis 22
I was wondering wether Orbi ModMod uses BetterAi (I think not but lately I could't play long games). Maybe it's time to improve AI a little like Notque does.
Also, I think CotD should be moved to a different tech since you can't found it if you start in the Classical Era (or at least while I started playing with Kuriotates for a couple of turns, there was no announcement of CotD being founded).

Unfortunatelly, no AI changes as of now. Notque did not release his source code and I did not have time to do the work on my own yet... It is a hight priority, so either I will work on it on my own when I have time, or wait till it gets integrated into FF

@ However, IMHO I don't think the problem is with plains or the tiles, it is the desirability of snow areas (winter tiles) vs normal tiles. As it stands I think it is more desirable to NOT build the temple of the hand because there is more diversity of tiles. Grassland on a whole seems to be the most desirable

Temples of the hand are not supposed to make you food growing easier. But you get plenty of other nice things from ice, so it is worth building them. Invisible workers? Combat bonuses? Bonuses from temples...
There were complains thet 2 and no hammers from snow is bad for illians, so I changed it. It also makes their cities smaller while still productive, and that is what I like. Illians are still humans, so temperate regions might be better for the normal life, but they are adapted to ice and can thrive even there.
The change to tundra is partially because Jean Elcard wants to implement cooling mechanics in Illian territory, and it will change terrain to tundra and ice even before temples (and it will be in Orbis, too). But I want Illians to be ice people, tundra is more doviello thing (it would take a lot of votes to convice me). So, I can leave it as it (prefered) is or change bonuses to 2 from snow and 11 from tundra...

What is that "adventurer" promotion? Not the Grigori unit, a promotion that some of my units have gained, apparently randomly(?).

Isn't the Cult of the Dragon supposed to be founded by the first civ of three (one being the Sheaim) discovers mysticism? The Cult hasn't been founded in my game; the Sheaim are there and I'm pretty sure they discovered Mysticism.

It seemed strange to me that the minor mazatl leader (Khset?) could adopt a state religion. Is this intended?

Dzhel answered yopur questions already, but I will add some of the mechanics perspective.
Adventurer is a promotion gained through lair exploration - "big good" and "big bad" results give it. There is 20% chance from normal lair exploration, 30% from animal dens (because of the high bad result chance, but now I think I will lower it to 10-15% total) and 100% from epic lairs
The promotion gives some small bonuses, but is more to indicate a "small hero" you can get - it gives acces to hero-only promotions. And improves results from explorations.
I need to check the cult. The global info on foundation is easy and I will add even though it is a secret cult. I want to keep it at mysicism (as I want it before other religions to let it spread and from the flavour perspective). The advanced start thing needs to be fixed. Anyway, I think it is one of the most troblemaking features I have "added".

Mazatl are not agnostic in Orbis, because I do not want too many civs that have this trait. The gods are all around and you have to have a really good reason not to adopt any religion.
Grigori think gods do not deserve the worship. Mechanos want gods dead or at least out of creation entirelly, Illians follow dead gold Mulcarn and try to get him back and Scions just follow the emperor.
Mazatl on the other hand mostly follow Kilmorph, but at a bit different name/doctrine. I think that the differences are smaller than between Calabim and Elohim versions of FoL, so I decided to allow them normal religion adoption.

Kael has stated that some gods created one really strong dragon, while others created many weaker dragons, and others created none. However, the weaker dragons didn't survive very long. Most died in the Age of Dragons, and the rest were either permanently locked up or else slain in the Age of Magic. Drifa's resurrection seems to indicate these could be brought back, but that may take power only a god or near-god would have.
While it hasn't been completely ruled out, I think that it is highly unlikely for dragons to be able to reproduce.

I always felt pity on the poor scaly beasts. Being just a combat machine...
I am tempted to use this slight possibility that was left out and maybe create some smaller dragons. The current ones would be avatar level, while others will be just drakes... Maybe Created by sucellus, I think he would like them to be like living beings in that regard...

 

[Dzhel]

I need to check the cult (and by the way, is it marked as founded in religion advisor?).

Just loaded up my save and can confirm that it's showing as being founded.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

No, the current dragons are far from equal in strength, although this isn't represented all that well. Eurabatres should be the strongest being the gods (not counting The One) ever created, making him greater than any archangel and maybe even than the god who used to be but an archangel. He is the archetype of the dragon, and all others are but poor imitations of his glory.


Kael has stated that some gods created one really strong dragon, while others created many weaker dragons, and others created none. However, the weaker dragons didn't survive very long. Most died in the Age of Dragons, and the rest were either permanently locked up or else slain in the Age of Magic. Drifa's resurrection seems to indicate these could be brought back, but that may take power only a god or near-god would have.



While it hasn't been completely ruled out, I think that it is highly unlikely for dragons to be able to reproduce.

thnx for helping

 

[arkham4269]

I do not mind expanding CotD There is so much flavour we can use...

But I do not want to get gazillion of other cults. White hand is almost entirelly illian, maybe Doviello too.

Well one thing I don't understand (and I think I've mentioned it before) is while one could see the Svartalfar going for FoL, they are the Winter Court elves and thus you'd almost expect them to build magical buildings that would have a similar in effect to the Temple of the White Hand since having everything green and growing isn't how they like things. You almost would expect the Doviello and Svartalfar would have a type of Genesis that still creates trees (which both the Dovi & Svar like) but would turn grasslands to plains and plains/desert to tundra. I would think neither would want tundra to go to ice.

 

[arkham4269]

A new civilization? Well if you have to.

I would be far more in favor of giving Mechanos an asian theme. It's a civ we all know and is fairly balanced, and the change would give them even more flavor. Would be easier to create the fluff as well. Mechanos and Mazatl being civs on their own separate continent. Considering just how different those two are there's probably no love lost between them.

Egads man, are you mad! Asian steampunk! Perish the thought! Steampunk needs monocles and men with stiff upper lips with lots of leather and goggles!

In all seriousness, no. Really.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well one thing I don't understand (and I think I've mentioned it before) is while one could see the Svartalfar going for FoL, they are the Winter Court elves and thus you'd almost expect them to build magical buildings that would have a similar in effect to the Temple of the White Hand since having everything green and growing isn't how they like things. You almost would expect the Doviello and Svartalfar would have a type of Genesis that still creates trees (which both the Dovi & Svar like) but would turn grasslands to plains and plains/desert to tundra. I would think neither would want tundra to go to ice.

They were the winter court, but they didn't really like winter. Faeryl hated that she was relegated to ruling only in the colder months, when nothing important could be accomplished. The elves, even the dark elves, are more vulnerable to the cold than men are, so they were forced to be somewhat dormant in the winter. There is no reason for the Svartalfar to like Tundra. I don't see any reason why the Doviello should particularly like trees either, not that they would particularly dislike them either.