[OT] DoC and History Learning

[alfimon]

By playing DoC and lurking in this forum, I realized I have a lot of holes in my history knowledge (mainly because my most recent history class was 7 or 8 years ago and it was about Peruvian history). Now my thirst for knowledge has awakened and I've been doing some Wikipedia random exploration, always because of something I read here or some civilization I wanted to try in the game. However, this method is kind of erratic as I feel that I am looking some very specific trees and not the big forests around me.
So I wanted to ask you, whether you are a historian professional or you just have history as one of your hobbies, if you could recommend me some books / articles / webpages from the general and basic to some subjects more specific that you really like. Actually I am one of those guys that like to read about every subject so if you like something I will be very happy to check it out (for example, just recently iOnlySignIn posted a link to an article about the defensive pact between Portugal and England and it was a fascinating subject).
Thank you and I hope this thread can become a place where everyone can learn something new.

PS: I am not 100% sure if this thread should be here or in other section (or folders? I don't know what the term is) of the forum. I posted here because it's one of the only section of CFC that I follow everyday and because I noticed people here know and worry a lot about history.

 

[artyom]

if you play EEU 3 you'd get substantially more knowledge. And I think EEU4 is coming out soon as well
as far as forum, yeah i learn alot here too

 

[Tigranes]

What books? Just read Wikipedia (even Pedia barrows from there!)

You can start from that link, and find all the other links for in-depth exploration.

 

[Wondering Kid]

Go to Wikipedia and then look at the Bibliography for further reading. Or just follow even more links. But be careful, or you'll be reading up to 4AM

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Guys, that's exactly what he DIDN'T ask for.

Let me begin then. History is only one of my hobbies.
I was initially going to be a history major, but decided it wasn't something I could build
a career off of and instead pursued art (only slightly better in that regard).
Before that, I only took Advanced Placement classes in US and European History.
History of Western Art is something tangential, but knowledge I possess nonetheless.
I mostly specialize in East Asian history as well. A good place to start would be the chinahistoryforum.
As far as East Asia goes, off the top of my head, just avoid Stephen Turnbull and you should be fine.

I also have a keen interest in polytheistic religions and mythology with factors into culture and in particular, ancient culture.
I could spin you a yarn about Tlazolteotl, the Aztec goddess of both filth and cleansing, for instance, and talk at length about parallels between confession to Tlazolteotl and Catholic confession.
If you're interested in ancient mythology (some insight is definitely needed to paint a complete picture of many cultures), check out pantheon.org: http://www.pantheon.org/

/history & paganism geek

 

[Oregon Lee]

Honestly, I would say I'm one of the better people at history and geography.
Read Brave New World for the best political fiction book there is. 1984 is overrated, Aldous Huxley's novel is better.
I'm a film person, if you haven't noticed. For good history film movies, watch... Gandhi, The Last Emperor, Drunken Angel (where my avatar is from. Good Japanese cultural stuff and general humany goodness and evil), Ran (1980)(for an abstract understanding of war from Akira Kurosawa), The Lives of Others for a movie about the East German Stazi, Pan's Labyrinth for a brief glimpse of the Spanish civil war, The King's Speech about the royalty around WWII England, Spartacus (1960) for a good Stanley Kubrick interpretation of Rome, and perhaps Life is Beautiful for a dark comedy about the Holocaust.
Read the Divine Comedy. I don't know if it fits your definition of history but it is the purest essence of Western Civilization.
Che for a movie about Che Guevara.
Interesting things to study:
Treaty of Versailles
Jefferson wanted the West US to be its own nation, but it was pulled into the Union by the Civil War.
Play Sword of Islam modmod for a great understanding of the region.
Read about Hideki Tojo, the Japanese figure of World War II that most people pay not attention to in the West.
Read about Timur, the badass half crippled mut.
Read A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich for a book about russian gulags.
Zero: A History of a Dangerous Idea -- mathematical history
Look up Csontvary Kotzka Tivadar, my favorite artist who is Hungarian.
This documentary about Einstein.
Read up on Nietzsche and Wagner.
Barry Lyndon by Stanley Kubrick is the best period film.
Apocalypse Now is the best film about Vietnam, although a little surreal.
Argo is another great movie.
Watch about human evolution.
Yellow Earth and the Great Dictator are two great movies. Yellow Earth about the cultural shift of China going to communism, and the Great Dictator is Charlie Chaplin making fun of Hitler. Good luck finding the latter, though.

Or strike up a conversation with me about anything! <--

 

[iOnlySignIn]

So I wanted to ask you, whether you are a historian professional or you just have history as one of your hobbies, if you could recommend me some books / articles / webpages from the general and basic to some subjects more specific that you really like. Actually I am one of those guys that like to read about every subject so if you like something I will be very happy to check it out (for example, just recently iOnlySignIn posted a link to an article about the defensive pact between Portugal and England and it was a fascinating subject).

Some of my favorite history books to read are:

Herodotus - Histories
http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.html
http://librivox.org/herodotus-histories-vol-1/
^ Herodotus is very funny and delightfully unpatriotic. My kind of author.

Caesar - The Gallic Wars
http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.html
^ This man is good at everything. Including writing.

Gibbon - The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/731/731-h/731-h.htm
http://librivox.org/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-empire-vol-i-by-edward-gibbon/
^ Gibbon's sense of humor is darker but he is very thorough. And despite the title, it's about much more than Rome or its fall.

Russell - The History of Western Philosophy
http://www.amazon.com/History-Western-Philosophy-Bertrand-Russell/dp/0671201581
^ Despite the title, this is a book about social history, rather than philosophy (according to Russell himself).

Diamond - Guns, Germs, and Steel
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552
^ Buy this book. Worth every penny. The guy is too smart to be a social science major (in fact he is not - he majored in biology).

Churchill - The Second World War
http://www.amazon.com/The-Second-World-Winston-Churchill/dp/039541685X
^ This book is rather long (and expensive). Get it in a library if you can. But it is uniquely fascinating because of its author and his perspective.

 

[Leoreth]

It's always great to see when this mod inspires people to take an interest in history!

I don't think that Wikipedia is that bad when you don't know anything about a particular region or era - it can give you a good summary of what roughly transpired then/there, not so much why and how it was related to other events.

What I'm saying is that there's a learning curve and besides (good) school history Wikipedia is a good starting point. You don't have to move on to history textbooks or scholarly articles right after that. I don't know how it is where you live, but in Germany there several magazines that cover particular events in more thorough way than Wiki while still being pop-history oriented enough to be an entertaining read. I found that to be sufficient for a while.

Other than that, this forum has a World History subforum you might want to check out. The quality varies depending on the authors, but there's some really great stuff in there, and some of the people active there are actual or aspiring historians, like Plotinus, Dachs or Owain Glyndwr.

And if I've learned something there then it's to stay away from Gibbon and Churchill unless you're interested in insights into the Victorian perspective and Churchill's head, respectively.

 

[blizzrd]

So I wanted to ask you, whether you are a historian professional or you just have history as one of your hobbies, if you could recommend me some books / articles / webpages from the general and basic to some subjects more specific that you really like. Actually I am one of those guys that like to read about every subject so if you like something I will be very happy to check it out (for example, just recently iOnlySignIn posted a link to an article about the defensive pact between Portugal and England and it was a fascinating subject).
Thank you and I hope this thread can become a place where everyone can learn something new.

I'm Australian, so my passion for History takes off when the subject is Australia (even though we have a much more limited history than many other nations).

I can recommend:
Geoffrey Blainey - Sea of Dangers
http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1566638259
History of French/English rivalry at the time of first exploration of Australia.

Paul Ham - Kokoda
http://www.harpercollins.com.au/books/Kokoda-Paul-Ham/
I thought I understood Australian action in World War II, until I read this book.

 

[Hightower]

Gibbon - The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/731/731-h/731-h.htm
http://librivox.org/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-roman-empire-vol-i-by-edward-gibbon/
^ Gibbon's sense of humor is darker but he is very thorough. And despite the title, it's about much more than Rome or its fall.

If you're reading Gibbon, make sure not to take him too seriously. Modern historians don't.

 

[therox]

One good book about the situation of Portugal and Brazil during the Napoleonic wars is ''1808'' and to undestand the creation of the Brazillian state is ''1822'' both by Laurentino Gomes , but I'm not sure about the availability outside Brazil and Portugal , I've looked up in amazon and there is a english version of 1808 , but not 1822

 

[SheaferDaDawg]

Haven't read a whole lot of material lately, but I highly recommend reading Traitor to His Class: The Privileged Life and Radical Presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, an excellent read about the life of FDR and how his policies and changes affected the US presidency, military policy and just about every country in the world. It is quite possibly the most complete and thorough biography of FDR, and paints a fascinating picture about the men (Roosevelt and Stalin) that decided the fate of much of the world.

http://www.amazon.com/Traitor-His-Class-Privileged-Presidency/dp/0307277941

 

[ImNotHere]

I don't know of many good books about history (I mostly read wiki to satisfy my curiosities), but I would recommend http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/ if you are interested in asking a question and receiving an answer. They are very professional and most certainly weed out dumb, incomplete, and inaccurate answers.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

And if I've learned something there then it's to stay away from Gibbon and Churchill unless you're interested in insights into the Victorian perspective and Churchill's head, respectively.

If you're reading Gibbon, make sure not to take him too seriously. Modern historians don't.

I find that the best way to experience history is through historical works of history. By reading Gibbon I learn about both the Roman Empire and Victorian England for example. The Chinese have a tradition that the history of each dynasty should be written during the next dynasty immediately following it - I think it makes sense because of that.

 

[Leoreth]

I wouldn't consider Gibbon a reliable work on the Roman Empire though, as 19th century historiography is pretty much outdated and discredited today. Of course it's a nice source on Victorian historiography.

By the way, I'm currently reading (in the widest possible definition, I'm currently not actively reading non-fiction) Warren Treadgold's History of the Byzantine State and Society, which is definitely recommendable.

 

[alfimon]

Everyone, thanks for all the tips.

@ Tigranes and Wondering Kid
I enjoy Wikipedia a lot, because, as you say, it's an easy way to understand fast and simple what happened in a particular place or era. So I keep reading it until 4am
But yeah, I was looking for something that allows me a deeper understanding.

@ Artyom
Yeah, I couldn't get EU3 when it was released because it wasn't available here in Peru at that time. Since then, I always wanted to play it but new games kept coming. Now I am following EU4 closely and I plan to buy it as soon as possible.

@TD
Thanks for both links. Sounds interesting specially since I have becomed very interested in Andean mithology a few months ago. Even living in Peru it's hard to get a good understanding of what the andean civilizations worshipped and believed.

@ Royal Tenenbaum
Thanks for your recommendations. I have read Brave New World and loved it. I've seen also a lot of the movies you mention. Haven't had the chance to play SoI yet and that Zero book looks really interesting.

@iOnlySignIn
I've read Guns, Germs and Steel in college. It was fascinating, specially to understand why the Incans couldn't fight the Spaniards. I have just read a book called The Last Days of the Incas by Kim Macquarrie that tells about the spanish invasion and I couldn't believe the results of the battles considering the number of Incan soldiers involved (60,000 Incans vs 130 Spaniards in Cajamarca). I have Histories by Herodotus, maybe I should try to read it sooner than later. I will check the other ones eventually, the one by Caesar looks really nice!

@blizzrd
Australia is a country that fascinates me. I don't know much about Australian history but I learned a lot about the animals there since I was a kid. I hope to visit that country soon. Both books look great and I have added them to my Amazon Wishlist.

@therox
Thanks for both recommendations. As I can't read Portuguese (although as it is very similar to Spanish, maybe I can give it a try), I suppose I can only read "1808". I have just read a book called "The empire is you" by Javier Moro. It's a historical fiction about Pedro I. I think it's not very accurate but it was interesting to learn how a country so close to my country was formed. I liked how it didn't have a violent revolution as the spanish colonies, Peru included.

@SheaferDaDawg
One of my holes in knowledge is about US history and WW2. Yeah, I know it's weird, because they are a popular topic in every media (movies, games, books). But I don't know, I wasn't so interested in that (I suppose it was some of the anti US heritage of living in a Latin American country that sticked to me when I was a teenager). So the book about FDR is also added to my Wishlist.

@ImNotHere
Yeah, I discovered that page a few weeks ago. I don't remember how exactly, but I ended reading an article about the Aztecs and what would have happened if the Spaniards didn't arrive to America. It was really insightful so I became a fan of that page. Fortunately, I don't have access to Reddit at work or I might get fired because of low productivity (that's also why I avoid reading Wikipedia at work )

@Leoreth
First of all, thanks for this awesome mod (and for giving ears to my recommendation of changing the name of the UU of the Incans). Like a lot of people in this subforum have already said, it's so great that you want to learn about all the civilizations you are playing. Thanks for the WH subforum. I didn't know that it exists. And finally, yeah, that book about Byzantine Empire sounds really interesting. Will check it out.

Also, I found about a collection of books called The Story of Civilization by Will and Ariel Durant. They are huge books each and there are eleven of them, but I thought they fit perfectly to what I was looking (the great picture of History). Do anyone here has read or checked those books? Are they worth the effort?

Thanks a lot!

 

[apenpaap]

One thing I can recommend to watch is Terry Jones' Barbarians. He's not exactly objective on the subject of the Romans, but it's very interesting about its main subject, the barbarians. Plus, it's Terry Jones, so it's fun to watch.

 

[banestrider]

If you would like to learn about the rise of communist China you can't go past, Wild Swans, Three daughters of China. It is an eye opening read into what is was like pre WW2 and then during the time of Mao.

 

[SheaferDaDawg]

While this thread is up, I'd like to know what kind of books that one might recommend to gain a greater understanding of Russia, China, India and Southeast Asia. My knowledge of their history is fairly basic, especially India.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

If you would like to learn about the rise of communist China you can't go past, Wild Swans, Three daughters of China. It is an eye opening read into what is was like pre WW2 and then during the time of Mao.

I wouldn't suggest anything from Jung Chang.
Her works tend to be very sensationalist.

Should've remembered to put her on the list with Stephen Turnbull.
Add Gavin Menzies to the list as well.