OTTOMAN in Britain and Iceland?

[H4run]

Once I listen to a guy who is talking about Ottoman empire make a landing and conquer for a short time parts of England, also how the Ottoman naval reach until Iceland.

I try to verify his statement, so far I cannot find any valid reference that lead to that statement except Wikipedia, and that disappoint me, I need something more detail and convincing, this is a very interesting subject.

In Wikipedia I got this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_conquests,_sieges_and_landings

it is said between 1627 1660 the Ottoman land in these area :

the Northern Atlantic including the British Isles, Shetland Islands, Faroe Islands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Labrador, Gulf of Saint Lawrence, Newfoundland and Virginia

Is this is a true fact? where can I get more detail reference about this? or is there any historian or history book or what ever that mention and explain about this event?

Thank you for reading

 

[mythmonster2]

The page on the Ottoman Navy, or more specifically the section on the Atlantic operations, does have a few sources including the Turkish Navy Site itself (translation needed). I will admit I have absolutely no experience with history, nor have I ever even heard of this until now, so another poster would probably be more helpful.

 

[History_Buff]

Barbary Corsairs certainly made raids into the Northeast Atlantic (certainly Britain, probably Icleand), and they were known to enjoy a large degree of support from the Ottomans. I've never heard of them raiding all the way across the Atlantic though.

And it would be wrong to say they conquered those areas; it's not like the Ottoman state ever exercised any control on those areas.

 

[Gen.Mannerheim]

This thread makes me think of playing old school Medieval: Total War. Literally every game I played the Moors would invade Ireland and then just chill there. Never attack Britain or France, and they would destory the port, and if you remember in the original M:TW you could only attack over water if the territory had a port. So the Moors would always survive after losing their territories in Ireland. It was unreal.

 

[Phrossack]

This thread makes me think of playing old school Medieval: Total War. Literally every game I played the Moors would invade Ireland and then just chill there. Never attack Britain or France, and they would destory the port, and if you remember in the original M:TW you could only attack over water if the territory had a port. So the Moors would always survive after losing their territories in Ireland. It was unreal.

Spoiler Total War hilarity :

In M2TW, the Spanish and Portuguese would do something similar. They'd send an army led by their prince and attack Wales or Ireland IF they were owned by the player. Always their prince, always Wales or Ireland, only if the player's there, every single game.

Likewise, in a minor mod for it (Ultimate Retrofit 1.5), I was playing as Spain and England and Scotland were going at it. Rather than fight where, you know, they actually lived, they decided to export their violence to Iberia. Each side would have fleets loaded with armies land in northern Spain, the armies would visit the beaches and kill each other, and then they'd leave and repeat. This bizarre tradition continued until Scotland used these landings to attack me. It only really ended when my pike-and-shot armies of doom crushed the invasion force, then were deployed by a vast armada to conquer all of Britain. Happy days.

And then there was my game as Russia. I love the Russian units, but I got tired of fighting off massive hordes of Poles, Hungarians, Mongols, and Timurids with only a few, scattered, poor settlements every game. So after a few turns I packed up EVERYONE in my country onto some ships and thus did the Russian people migrate to northern Scotland. I captured it from the rebels and gave Novgorod to England (it immediately rebelled). Then I blitzed Scotland, England, and all the British Isles with Kazakhs and Boyar Sons- the Britons had never seen anything like it. British Russia then moved to conquer the Low Countries and Normandy, Denmark and all of Scandinavia, and Poland. When I left off I had nearly returned to Russia.

But anyway, I do recall reading something about corsair slave raids in Iceland and southern England. Never heard of them hitting the New World, though.

 

[Ajidica]

Never heard of them hitting the New World, though.

I have vague memories of Dachs(?) mentioning a case of Ottomans ending up in South Carolina, claiming it, realizing the British had already claimed it, and then went back to Istanbul.

 

[H4run]

actually I heard also, that the Turks immigrant also once quite massive in US, until they ban it. Don't know if it right or wrong though.

Btw I also remember I heard the Ottoman control part of England for short time, like 2 month. Is it Ottoman? Barbary Crosairs? or Morrocoan sailors? It really mix up in my mind.

 

[r16]

that would be an island named Lundy , across Bristol or some other city that was kept for a short time at the English Civil War or something . Reputedly Cromwell was aghast at the thing . It has been said that it was the Dutch who converted to Islam -at least for the duration- to get the North Africans to sail in square rig to raid Atlantic coastlines . The invasion of Iceland is such a raid that took many people who ended in slavery .

regarding the American coast , there is mention of songs about the daughter of the Governor of Virginia , specifically taken and she would cry whenever she was brought on the deck for a breather . The captain might be Murat Reis , ı definitinely remember the Algerian Navy had a frigate named after him .

edit : ı have checked the links provided in the posts above and ı can't say ı have added anything new .


the immigrants issue is brought up time to time in Turkey . Called Meluncan , they are readily a mix up of America's Natives and slaves and such brought later , might include ethnic Turks as well . ( This sentence does not argue that they are mixed , so are not Turks . Everybody is a mix of everybody else that lived before .) Wikipedia article in English . Turkish page is much shorter and declares their ancestors are some 400 sailors captured in Lepanto 1571 .

 

[IkM]

I heard Ottomans helped ireland by their request. but, didn't know if they controlled part of england.

 

[TheLastOne36]

This thread makes me think of playing old school Medieval: Total War. Literally every game I played the Moors would invade Ireland and then just chill there. Never attack Britain or France, and they would destory the port, and if you remember in the original M:TW you could only attack over water if the territory had a port. So the Moors would always survive after losing their territories in Ireland. It was unreal.

Or EU3 for that matter. Ottomans always finds a way to conquer some territory in Scandinavia or England.

 

[H4run]

Thanks for the replies. I still have questions in my mind though, so who the one who land in Britain or Ice Land? is it just Barbary Corsairs? or both them and Ottoman already landed in Britain and Iceland?

@r16, did you mean Jan Janszoon van Haarlem or Murat Reis the younger?

 

[H4run]

I mean do Ottoman every siege England and Ice Land, and defend it for 2 month? instead using the privateers to embark, loot, load, and go?

And what is the privateers is really fully under the command of the Ottoman or the Ottoman just used them for war?

Sorry for my limited knowledge about the subject I maybe ask a very basic question, but if I know about this matter I will not ask it here and make a thread if I know it.

 

[Dachs]

I mean do Ottoman every siege England and Ice Land, and defend it for 2 month? instead using the privateers to embark, loot, load, and go?

No. The Ottoman Empire never had its fleet attack England or Iceland.

 

[H4run]

No. The Ottoman Empire never had its fleet attack England or Iceland.

Honestly I wait for your comment but not this short.

So where those claim come from? I believe this claim have a sources but somehow I just can't find it beside Wikipedia. And how you prove that the claim is false?

I just curious about this.

 

[History_Buff]

You don't prove claims like that false. If it's not written anywhere outside of wikipedia, the conclusion is that it's: an exaggeration that got out of hand; somehow taken out of context; or just some nationalistic shouting in the first place.

 

[H4run]

You don't prove claims like that false. If it's not written anywhere outside of wikipedia, the conclusion is that it's: an exaggeration that got out of hand; somehow taken out of context; or just some nationalistic shouting in the first place.

I still so curious and I can't believe is just that but you also have reason to say it just a claim though nothing come as a prove so far. Maybe one day if I can read bald arabic and understand Osmanli languages I might find something in Sultan Ahmet Library in Istanbul.

Btw thanks for answering

 

[History_Buff]

Well, I imagine you don't need to go that far. I'm sure there's all sort of academic work (albeit, perhaps only in English?) on this topic since the Barbary Corsairs aren't exactly obscure. But I don't know where you'd find such things.

 

[r16]

@r16, did you mean Jan Janszoon van Haarlem or Murat Reis the younger?

frankly my information on the subject is extremely sketchy . The literature on Corsairs is certainly limited in Turkey . It either makes them Islamic warriors that could do never wrong , which is definitinely not the case or limited to work of authors in the 1940-50s which do not fit with current narratives of history in country . As such ı wonder doesn't the Wikipedia page suggest the two names given above are the same guy ?

returning to something else in the thread : People darker than me in skin colour do not find it offensive for me suggest it is sort of descriptive for this US diplomatic effort to stress that despite all the stuff they do against Turks they are still ready to embrace us ... Even if it is still possible for a US diplomat to have Melungeon origins and he might really believe there is Turks in the mix somewhere , but in the glorious War on Terror where the borders of some 26 countries will be be enthusiastically changed by the US , Washington and the impressively smart Neo-cons could only manage to accept any possible Turkishness in the Americas if down to slaves and "lesser" colours . For certainly no seed of the demon can ever be a blond with non-brown eyes . Where is that 3 million Turkic people in the US , our State TV was saying that just two years back ? And oh , the success stories of those hidden Turks : Elvis the Pelvis and that President dude , the darky hairy one that started that thing in 1861 ? In 2013 , ı certainly wonder what was the percentage of damned souls in 2005 or so , just before Katrina ... America makes up things , Turks can give up a country for they have next of kin in the US ; is that still on , will America accept those who can't live in the new Turkey , or is it the same kind of promises the Argentinian flights into the ocean with Leftists on board , who were always led to believe they were being exiled , until some sergeant opened the door and threw them out ?

 

[H4run]

Well, I imagine you don't need to go that far. I'm sure there's all sort of academic work (albeit, perhaps only in English?) on this topic since the Barbary Corsairs aren't exactly obscure. But I don't know where you'd find such things.

I don't know I just guess it because the close relation and bound between Ottoman and Barbary Corsair I just thought there might be many document from the Ottoman era about them, and I think the Sultan Ahmet Library is the library that still hold the origin of Ibn Khaldun script muqaddimah they have pretty amazing collection over there. I went there once, and I just fall in love in the first time with the environment.

And for me is not that far, thanks for your concern, because I'm on the way to it, I learning both Turkish and Arabic now, and Ottoman languages is similar although not all exactly the same with modern Turkish languages.

frankly my information on the subject is extremely sketchy . The literature on Corsairs is certainly limited in Turkey . It either makes them Islamic warriors that could do never wrong , which is definitinely not the case or limited to work of authors in the 1940-50s which do not fit with current narratives of history in country . As such ı wonder doesn't the Wikipedia page suggest the two names given above are the same guy ?

Me too, I bit a shame talking about this subject, my knowledge about Ottoman empire is just fair, I have pretty strong knowledge on the history around Muhammad (saw), the four Khulafah Rhosyidin also early Umayyad.

Yes indeed he is the same guy that is why I said "or".

returning to something else in the thread : People darker than me in skin colour do not find it offensive for me suggest it is sort of descriptive for this US diplomatic effort to stress that despite all the stuff they do against Turks they are still ready to embrace us ... Even if it is still possible for a US diplomat to have Melungeon origins and he might really believe there is Turks in the mix somewhere , but in the glorious War on Terror where the borders of some 26 countries will be be enthusiastically changed by the US , Washington and the impressively smart Neo-cons could only manage to accept any possible Turkishness in the Americas if down to slaves and "lesser" colours . For certainly no seed of the demon can ever be a blond with non-brown eyes . Where is that 3 million Turkic people in the US , our State TV was saying that just two years back ? And oh , the success stories of those hidden Turks : Elvis the Pelvis and that President dude , the darky hairy one that started that thing in 1861 ? In 2013 , ı certainly wonder what was the percentage of damned souls in 2005 or so , just before Katrina ... America makes up things , Turks can give up a country for they have next of kin in the US ; is that still on , will America accept those who can't live in the new Turkey , or is it the same kind of promises the Argentinian flights into the ocean with Leftists on board , who were always led to believe they were being exiled , until some sergeant opened the door and threw them out ?

Kardesim gercekten biraz anlamadim, tekrar bu cumle turkce soylebilirsin

sen turk musun?

 

[r16]

there is no need to talk Turkish , Americans understand when people talk in the same language they talk , though nobody ever requires confirmation .

besides it's against the Forum rules , one must show respect to at least some , if one might require breaking others .

though the honest translation of what you are asking should be : The tale of a large scale Turkish presence in the US suppressed by Christian majority is a 21st Century construct that was pushed on Washington for certain political ends and even in that they delegate Turkishness to below Iberian Jews . In itself which doesn't mean anything of course ; you wouldn't believe what we hear about Turks ...