Over The Reich JPetroski vs. Prof. Garfield

[JPetroski]

2x industry and a refinery are destroyed. The Red Tails continue to tangle with Ta152s, killing 4x more.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

1 Tempest, 1 Beaufighter, 1 P47D40, 5 332nd FG, 5 15th AF Bombers, 1 Mosquito PR.

Lost 1 Me109K4.

 

[JPetroski]

A battle group is encircled and destroyed at Nantes along with a few other defenders, 2x depleted battle groups are destroyed in southern Belgium, 1x industry is destroyed, a handful of fighters are knocked down by the 332nd. I think I lost a few fighters to reactions as well.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

German forces advance towards Rotterdam.

4 Tempests, 4 P47D40, 2 P38J, 2 P51B, 1 Stirling, 8 332nd FG, 9 15th AF bombers.

Ta152, Me410 lost.

 

[JPetroski]

Lille and Fortress Nantes finally fall. The Germans are beaten back by Rotterdam and their battle group destroyed, though we lose a task force.

2x Sdkfz
1x Me109G6
4x Me109K4
4x Fw190D9
6x Ta152
2x Me410
1x He219
8x Industry
3x Refinery

And a splattering of other ground forces lost.

We lose several units and many more are very chewed up.

1x Task Force
1x P-51B
3x 15th AF Bombers

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Destroyed an Urban Target near Colchester, but terrain didn't change. That should be looked into.

3 B17F, 3 332nd FG, 16 15th AF bombers, 1 Urban Center II, 1 Damaged B17F.

1 HE219, 1 Do335 lost.

 

[JPetroski]

3x He111, 1x wolfpack, 2x industry

Losses:
1x Tempest

 

[Prof. Garfield]

2 Beaufighter, 2 Stirling, 2 B17, 4 332nd FG, 5 15th AF.

Some bombs fall on Portsmouth.

 

[JPetroski]

Slow turn - 1 industry destroyed

 

[Prof. Garfield]

2 Tempests, 1 Stirling, 1 B17, 7 332nd FG, 6 15th AF Bombers, 2 Damaged B17s.

Carelessly lost 2 Ta152 and 1 Me410 to reactions.

Have you ever had the combat log bring up an error? It's happened 2 or 3 times for me. It seems to happen right after I save the game, but closing the console and pressing escape again makes the combat log run normally.

 

[JPetroski]

I took heavy losses (6x Tempests) to barrage balloons this turn. Speaking of which, we probably don't want barrage balloons killing task forces which is what happened last turn.

Anyway, I killed 4x units (2x Ta152, a U-boat, and an He111)

Have you ever had the combat log bring up an error?

Yes I have actually but like you, I've noticed it quickly disappears after hitting escape again. Here is what is popping for me anyway:

Over the Reich
Events.lua parsed successfully at 12/02/20 20:38:30
defender, Unit<type="Wolf Pack", owner=2, damage=5, moveSpent=0, x=27, y=65, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="Depth Charge", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=28, y=64, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=404, y=120, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=4, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=404, y=120, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=8, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=404, y=120, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=404, y=120, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=404, y=120, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=16, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=404, y=120, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=20, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=403, y=119, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=24, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=403, y=119, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Industry II", owner=2, damage=24, moveSpent=0, x=402, y=120, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="250lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=403, y=119, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Ta152", owner=2, damage=8, moveSpent=0, x=366, y=118, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=365, y=119, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=254, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=254, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=4, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=4, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=4, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Sdkfz 7/2", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=8, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Sdkfz 7/2", owner=2, damage=4, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Sdkfz 7/2", owner=2, damage=4, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Sdkfz 7/2", owner=2, damage=4, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=253, y=71, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=252, y=72, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Ta152", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=287, y=91, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=287, y=89, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Ta152", owner=2, damage=6, moveSpent=0, x=287, y=91, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=286, y=92, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Ta152", owner=2, damage=9, moveSpent=0, x=287, y=91, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=287, y=89, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Ta152", owner=2, damage=15, moveSpent=0, x=287, y=91, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=287, y=89, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Ta152", owner=2, damage=18, moveSpent=0, x=287, y=91, z=1>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=286, y=90, z=1>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=95, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=95, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="500lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=95, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="500lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=95, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=92, y=94, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=92, y=94, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=95, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=95, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=92, y=94, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=92, y=94, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=93, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="Battle Group", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=90, y=94, z=0>, attacker, Unit<type="1000lb Bomb", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=91, y=93, z=0>
defender, Unit<type="He111", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=154, y=74, z=2>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=156, y=74, z=2>
defender, Unit<type="He111", owner=2, damage=0, moveSpent=0, x=163, y=75, z=2>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=163, y=77, z=2>
defender, Unit<type="He111", owner=2, damage=9, moveSpent=0, x=157, y=79, z=2>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=157, y=77, z=2>
defender, Unit<type="He111", owner=2, damage=12, moveSpent=0, x=153, y=73, z=2>, attacker, Unit<type="Light Guns", owner=1, damage=0, moveSpent=1, x=151, y=73, z=2>
D:\Test of Time\Scenario\OTR\log.lua:433: attempt to index a nil value (local 'tile')
stack traceback:
    D:\Test of Time\Scenario\OTR\log.lua:433: in upvalue 'bestRegion'
    D:\Test of Time\Scenario\OTR\log.lua:490: in upvalue 'sortCombatInfoByRegion'
    D:\Test of Time\Scenario\OTR\log.lua:500: in upvalue 'sortCombatInfoByRegionAndTile'
    D:\Test of Time\Scenario\OTR\log.lua:570: in upvalue 'getOrganizedAttackInfo'
    D:\Test of Time\Scenario\OTR\log.lua:1472: in function 'log.combatReportFunction'
    (...tail calls...)

 

[Prof. Garfield]

The German High Command extends its gratitude to the Allied High Command for providing several P51s for the combat trials of the new German rocket fighter at Ostheim.

2 Beaufighter, 5 P51D, 2 33nd FG, 2 15th AF.

1 Ta152 lost.

When I loaded the game, I saw your task forces north of Germany, and the cargo of one of them. I tried not to make any moves based specifically on that information. I was actually wondering why you hadn't tried something kind of like that already...

Speaking of which, we probably don't want barrage balloons killing task forces which is what happened last turn.

Next time I spend some time in the events, I'll try to fix that. The task forces aren't supposed to be suitable for attacking land targets (maybe we should give them the barrage back?), but losing to barrage balloons is a bit much.

If I had to choose again, I'd probably try going for rocket fighters (and V weapons) first, rather than Ta152s. The Me163 is basically a more easily accessible (and cheaper!) jet, as far as I can tell, and the V weapons would be a decent bonus for that path, I think. Speaking of which, do you want V1 and V2 units deleted if they land in airfields (assuming this doesn't already happen to them, and I've just forgotten that event)?

 

[JPetroski]

2x He219 and 1x urban center destroyed

Next time I spend some time in the events, I'll try to fix that. The task forces aren't supposed to be suitable for attacking land targets (maybe we should give them the barrage back?), but losing to barrage balloons is a bit much

Barrage back just means they one shot each other - if anything I'd argue let's use some of the combat tricks to perhaps allow them to have a guaranteed damage of land units, but not be able to kill anything?

If I had to choose again, I'd probably try going for rocket fighters (and V weapons) first, rather than Ta152s. The Me163 is basically a more easily accessible (and cheaper!) jet, as far as I can tell, and the V weapons would be a decent bonus for that path, I think. Speaking of which, do you want V1 and V2 units deleted if they land in airfields (assuming this doesn't already happen to them, and I've just forgotten that event)?

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. I found the V weapons very useful in my game with Fairline. The Me163 is cheaper, but with only 20 movement spaces, and a need to return to base, it has limited functionality. I suppose now my tactic will be to avoid large clumps of aircraft to force you to pick and choose targets. I think it balances, but I suppose we'll see. I think the 262 remains the best unit in the game, but there's such a commitment to get to it that you miss out on much more. The Ta152 is quite a capable fighter - I have a hard time knocking them down, and as we've seen, Germany is capable of fielding them fairly early if they go that path too.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

1 Spitfire, 2 Beaufighter, 3 P51B, 1 Stirling, 2 Halifax, 2 332nd FG, 3 15th AF bombers, 1 Urban Center (Portsmouth).

Lost a Ta152. Also of note, an Early Radar station was captured, which alerted me to the presence of an Allied Battle Group (or, it would have, if I didn't already know.

I think I've tracked down the log bug. I changed where the log function was, so that battle groups would not be reported as part of stack kills when they were re-created, and the barrage balloons were deleted before recording their location. I just changed the order of a couple things. I didn't do any other work for the events, since those would take more testing than I want to do just now.

I'm ready to give up at any time you're bored and no longer think we'll get useful information from continued play. I didn't start the turn with any battle groups in a city to send to Wilhelmshaven, and you should be able to trigger the Russian Invasion in a couple turns at most. I have 1 battle group available to stop the Russians if I send another to fight the group that just landed (I have no other battle groups close to a railyard). For quite a few turns, I've just been waiting to see how long it would take you to break through or circumvent my defences.

 

[JPetroski]

It's up to you - we have the data that we need to finish this and it is a big time drag at this point. I don't think I'd declare victory of course. I think it's pretty likely I can get the 8 or so cities for a marginal victory but I'm not at all sure with the 163s that total is within my grasp. In any event I have 4 projects that are all in various stages of "if I get off my butt they can be finished in a week" so I am not opposed to dropping the game..

One thing I would appreciate if you would check - load up any of my fresh turns (meaning hit enter after yours) and just play a couple of minutes to see how the unit activation works - it is all over the place for the first few units and jumps all over the map. I thought you had tried to fix this but it doesn't seem to be working. Once you play through a number of units it will work for others, but if, for example, you attacked with a B-17 as your first unit, it will often cycle to a unit on the opposite side of the map before going to a next one close by (again, only until about 1/3 to 1/2 of the "choice" units are cycled through). NO idea if this can be fixed, but it was of extreme annoyance and something I jotted down to talk with you about after the match.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I think it's pretty likely I can get the 8 or so cities for a marginal victory but I'm not at all sure with the 163s that total is within my grasp.

I have I think 4 battle groups between Germany and the Low Countries, and they are generally damaged enough that they can only move 1 or 2 squares per turn, and so will have considerable trouble getting in position for combat, to say nothing of being at fighting strength. My other 2 battle groups could take the train from Peenemunde and Berlin to Bremen, but then there would be nothing stopping the Russians from advancing at all.

One thing I would appreciate if you would check - load up any of my fresh turns (meaning hit enter after yours) and just play a couple of minutes to see how the unit activation works - it is all over the place for the first few units and jumps all over the map. I thought you had tried to fix this but it doesn't seem to be working. Once you play through a number of units it will work for others, but if, for example, you attacked with a B-17 as your first unit, it will often cycle to a unit on the opposite side of the map before going to a next one close by (again, only until about 1/3 to 1/2 of the "choice" units are cycled through). NO idea if this can be fixed, but it was of extreme annoyance and something I jotted down to talk with you about after the match.

All units with goto orders have top priority, and so will move first. If they reach their destination, then they'll activate, but you can press w to have them wait; however, that will make them wait after all units, which also might not be preferable. I can try giving them the wait command, and see if that will stop them from moving, but otherwise, we are kind of stuck.

 

[JPetroski]

All units with goto orders have top priority, and so will move first. If they reach their destination, then they'll activate, but you can press w to have them wait; however, that will make them wait after all units, which also might not be preferable. I can try giving them the wait command, and see if that will stop them from moving, but otherwise, we are kind of stuck.

That makes sense - OK - so well then there is no need for any fix - I just need to remember to document that.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

OK, what do we still have to do before we can 'finish' OTR? (Besides documentation.)

Here's what I can think of

Map and Starting Position Fixes (Not sure how much of this is already done):

Give Germans 2 Panzer divisions, and remove 2 battle groups.

Add an extra French city, and a new rail path to Germany.

Add a couple installation terrain squares, and partially completed radar stations in France. Or, perhaps, strategically place a couple of construction teams that can build the installation terrain.

Hull seems to have 2 urban targets stacked over one another.

Possible Miscellaneous Event Changes:

Do we want to re-home units supported by captured cities? (Easy to change, if you want.)

Delete V-Weapons that land in airfields.

I think Allied night aircraft don't react to German Fighter-bombers.

Should Jet Guns ignore hard to damage, like heavy guns? Or, maybe, reduce the effectiveness of hard to damage?

Do we want to change rocket damage to a threshold table (and, if so, what damage)? At the moment, rookie rockets generate a damage between 1 and 20, while vet rockets generate damage between 2 and 21.

Technology Acquisition Rate:

Not sure what to do here. The tech cost can be lowered, and a few extra refineries given to speed up tech acquisition in the early game. Do we want events that give free beakers or free techs?

Maybe change the tech tree a bit. I think you wanted to reduce the techs needed for Mustangs. I think it might make sense to put Bomber Destroyers II behind some other tech. Jabo II would delay the tech short term, but not affect long term tech totals (since Jabo III is necessary for tactics II and III). Maybe it makes sense to put Bomber Destroyers II behind Strategic Bombers II.

Earlier, I suggested a 'deploy prototypes' mechanism, where building a structure (that would immediately be deleted) would allow the player to get some units that are more advanced than what they can regularly field. This might ease the problem of not being able to follow all the tech tree paths. It might also provide an incremental reward for certain long research paths, such as jets. For example, every 2 techs on path to jets could allow Germany to field 1 jet prototype, and, maybe, every tech on path to mustangs could field a couple P51s. I'm willing to put in the work to make this, but only if you think it is a good idea.

Miscellaneous Concerns:

I'm a bit concerned that towards the end of the game, the German player might decide to disband much of his flak into whatever advanced weapon he has access to. Once you have to pick your air battles carefully, flak doesn't do very much, since its function now is to 'break' the bomber's hard to kill.

Can you think of anything else that has to be done?

 

[JPetroski]

Take a peek at the radar and railtrack in this - I haven't done anything with the events nor have I messed with the tech tree yet, but I did add a city "Verdun" and another rail line that I'm thinking of shutting down around 258,106. I also created a third path into Germany (but didn't change the coastline because of clouds) north of Karlsruhe.

This gives 3 paths (entry at the Netherlands, Cologne, and Karlsruhe) which I think is reasonable. Cologne and Karlsruhe especially are unlikely to shut down without paying a price.

-Added 2 Panzer Divisions, one near Calais, the other in the east. Deleted battle groups.
-I *think* I went through the battle groups and changed their home city to "none" but may have missed some. I would like you to add rehoming of units, please.
-Added a line of installation terrain

Didn't do the rules yet as that's easy to break things if you don't pause and reflect. But it shouldn't be that big of a deal to do soon.

I did not mess with the events AT ALL. It wouldn't be that hard for me to add Verdun's improvements in though so I can handle that when I get them back. I think there's only a few things for you to do before you're "released" after all these years so I'm going to leave you the events for now.

--I should probably reintroduce clouds (well I did "reintroduce them") but I first must run the script to move them along. I tried looking at the clouds module (briefly) and didn't see the command to do that. Do you have that?

I think Allied night aircraft don't react to German Fighter-bombers.

Hull seems to have 2 urban targets stacked over one another.

I will look into the two above when I have the events.

Should Jet Guns ignore hard to damage, like heavy guns? Or, maybe, reduce the effectiveness of hard to damage?

Yes.

Do we want to change rocket damage to a threshold table (and, if so, what damage)? At the moment, rookie rockets generate a damage between 1 and 20, while vet rockets generate damage between 2 and 21.

Historically this is how rockets should play out:

- Guaranteed break up of the bomber formation (damage) - maybe threshold table for this
- A chance of a complete destruction of the bomber (maybe 1/6)
- Darn near worthless against fighters, but if they hit them, they're done (maybe 1/20)

Not sure what to do here. The tech cost can be lowered, and a few extra refineries given to speed up tech acquisition in the early game. Do we want events that give free beakers or free techs?

I'm fairly happy with the testing we've done with the tech cost so I'm leaning towards just giving each side a couple extra refineries to start. That or maybe even setting tech progress to full for each side and setting tech path to nil at the start of the scenario so each player gets one "free" tech to start their game with. I'm pretty sure that concept would work.

Maybe change the tech tree a bit. I think you wanted to reduce the techs needed for Mustangs. I think it might make sense to put Bomber Destroyers II behind some other tech. Jabo II would delay the tech short term, but not affect long term tech totals (since Jabo III is necessary for tactics II and III). Maybe it makes sense to put Bomber Destroyers II behind Strategic Bombers II.

I'll take a look at this probably over the weekend.

Earlier, I suggested a 'deploy prototypes' mechanism, where building a structure (that would immediately be deleted) would allow the player to get some units that are more advanced than what they can regularly field. This might ease the problem of not being able to follow all the tech tree paths. It might also provide an incremental reward for certain long research paths, such as jets. For example, every 2 techs on path to jets could allow Germany to field 1 jet prototype, and, maybe, every tech on path to mustangs could field a couple P51s. I'm willing to put in the work to make this, but only if you think it is a good idea.

If we're immediately deleting it, we can use the barracks for this. I'll try to find suitable art and change the rules when I do the tech tree. I do think we want to limit the prototypes. I don't think I'd use it for Mustangs (I am going to reduce their tech tree so that "Over the Reich" actually has a point in time when fights happen "over the Reich") but would probably use it for Meteors (which, without this, will guaranteed never see the light of day in this scenario). This also makes it easier for you since they follow the tech path of the 262.

I'm a bit concerned that towards the end of the game, the German player might decide to disband much of his flak into whatever advanced weapon he has access to. Once you have to pick your air battles carefully, flak doesn't do very much, since its function now is to 'break' the bomber's hard to kill.

Trying to think creatively but can we get tricky with a trigger like afterProduction or onActivate and reduce the flak's shield cost to nothing or one row at that point, and then maybe use onTurn (which I think fires first before anything else) to reset it to the true cost? Maybe an onActivate trigger for flak the first time just to warn the player that, yeah, the cost you see in the game is not what you pay, and here's why we did that, but that would fix that.

Either that or, well, we don't worry about it.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

You have the events.

Take a peek at the radar and railtrack in this - I haven't done anything with the events nor have I messed with the tech tree yet, but I did add a city "Verdun" and another rail line that I'm thinking of shutting down around 258,106. I also created a third path into Germany (but didn't change the coastline because of clouds) north of Karlsruhe.

This gives 3 paths (entry at the Netherlands, Cologne, and Karlsruhe) which I think is reasonable. Cologne and Karlsruhe especially are unlikely to shut down without paying a price.

Maybe there should be one or two installation tiles fairly close to Verdun (perhaps ~8 squares east and west), and early radar about 3/4 complete there. With cheaper rail transport of construction crews, building extra radar stations might not be quite so difficult.

The railyard of Karlsruhe should probably be moved to (283,99). With Verdun railyards at (258,106), the current rail system means that central and Eastern France can only be split from Germany at the Rhine, while Western France can be cut off by Tours and Le Havre, and the further west, the easier it is to really stop trains. We might consider moving Antwerp and Lille Railyards to make it easier to cut off Calais. I think a double cut for Calais is something that makes sense for strategic purposes, but wouldn't really interfere with plunder operations.

--I should probably reintroduce clouds (well I did "reintroduce them") but I first must run the script to move them along. I tried looking at the clouds module (briefly) and didn't see the command to do that. Do you have that?

In the console use the commands:

console.clearAllClouds()
console.updateAllWeather()

Historically this is how rockets should play out:

- Guaranteed break up of the bomber formation (damage) - maybe threshold table for this
- A chance of a complete destruction of the bomber (maybe 1/6)
- Darn near worthless against fighters, but if they hit them, they're done (maybe 1/20)

-- rockets do a random amount of damage to the target, instead of engaging in normal combat
specialNumbers.rookieRocketDamage = gen.makeThresholdTable({[0]=1,[0.4]=9,[0.9]=20,})
specialNumbers.vetRocketDamage = gen.makeThresholdTable({[0]=1,[0.3]=11,[0.83]=20,})

Fighters are immune from rocket damage, and that seemed to work well. I don't see the point in changing that for a 1 in 20 kill chance, especially since immunity comes with a message that the rockets won't work. FYI, rocket immunity doesn't work on the ground.

Jet guns (unit 97) don't trigger the hard to damage mechanism.

I'm fairly happy with the testing we've done with the tech cost so I'm leaning towards just giving each side a couple extra refineries to start. That or maybe even setting tech progress to full for each side and setting tech path to nil at the start of the scenario so each player gets one "free" tech to start their game with. I'm pretty sure that concept would work.

A free tech at the start of the game is the easiest thing to do. It's also fairly easy is to fill up the tech box each turn for the first couple turns. This would jumpstart the early game a bit, but not encourage a player to reduce their science rate. There might be a slight problem if an early tech choice by one player requires a counter from the other player, that they didn't research as one of their 'free' techs, and they have to wait until they build the refinery capacity to do research.

-I *think* I went through the battle groups and changed their home city to "none" but may have missed some. I would like you to add rehoming of units, please.

Added. Turned out to be slightly more difficult than expected, due to destroyed airfields and strategic targets, but it seems to be working now.

If we're immediately deleting it, we can use the barracks for this. I'll try to find suitable art and change the rules when I do the tech tree. I do think we want to limit the prototypes. I don't think I'd use it for Mustangs (I am going to reduce their tech tree so that "Over the Reich" actually has a point in time when fights happen "over the Reich") but would probably use it for Meteors (which, without this, will guaranteed never see the light of day in this scenario). This also makes it easier for you since they follow the tech path of the 262.

I'll work on this later, possibly in a separate file.

We already have the SAM Battery slot open, since we don't actually want the flak battery defence anymore. We could keep it relatively simple, and make it work only for producing jets. I'm thinking 1 jet is available at turn 80, and 1 more jet is available for Each technology starting with Jet Fighters Prioritized and Ending with Axial Flow Compressors.

I'm thinking it might make some sense to have early models of some other planes, like P47D40 and Mustang, made available with the previous generation of fighters, and maybe some V-weapon launch sites for the German player, or ME410s, if we hide them up the tech tree a bit. I think I can make this relatively general, and we can fill in details later. This would give players a chance to 'play' with more units, and maybe make a more informed decision about what they really want to focus on. The cheaper units would receive 2 or 3 upon completion of the 'deploy prototype' improvement. I'm thinking that only one airfield per player should be able to build it.

Trying to think creatively but can we get tricky with a trigger like afterProduction or onActivate and reduce the flak's shield cost to nothing or one row at that point, and then maybe use onTurn (which I think fires first before anything else) to reset it to the true cost? Maybe an onActivate trigger for flak the first time just to warn the player that, yeah, the cost you see in the game is not what you pay, and here's why we did that, but that would fix that.

Either that or, well, we don't worry about it.

Upon reflection, I say we don't worry about it. If enough games get played that this becomes an issue, then we can revisit it along with who knows how many more balance changes would be discovered by then. I don't think it would make or break the fun for the first few games that someone plays.

I just remembered that we had a concern about the Allied player not going very far into Germany. Did we want to give some sort of bonus for attacking further inside the Reich?

Also, you were concerned about the Allied player not making the targets for getting Battle Groups. We could change the code so that if they are missed before the 'early' deadline, they still become available at turn 90 or 100. The Allied player would then be in a rush, but they should still have enough troops to make some sort of landing by that point anyway.