Pact of the Stooges

[Fluesterwitz]

I really like the Pact wonder as it's really flavorfull and 3 unique giants seem like a good payoff for 500.

But: Even at str 7 the giants appear awfully fragile, they get no training from buildings, cannot use metal and IMO rather absurd they cannot be lead by a general. A further -minor- flaw is they have no racial promo.

Lorewise the stooges might even be regarded as adventurers, however that would be overdoing it. :lol

So please, at least enable them to be lead by a warlord; what kind of warlord would not want a giant in her retinue?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Have you tried casting Reveal Nationality and sending a commander at them than?

 

[Fluesterwitz]

Hm, I think they were stacked with other units. Will make sure to try next game.

 

[Kalina]

Hill Giants are beast units, Great Generals can only join melee, mounted, naval and archery units right now. I would like to see them joining beast and recon units, but AFAIR Ahwaric doesn't like it this way

Btw, Great General text may use some updating.

"A Great General may become a Warlord by joining any melee, mounted, archery or naval unit, giving free experience to units in same tile. Joining unit provides it with [LINK=PROMOTION_LEADER]Lead by Warlord[\LINK] promotion. This promotion increases unit strength by 1, gives it 1 free xp per combat and allows free upgrades. Additionally, it unlocks [LINK=PROMOTION_LEADERSHIP]Leadership[\LINK] and [LINK=PROMOTION_TACTICS]Tactics[\LINK] promotions. Great General who joined an unit cannot be unattached from this unit later.
Great Generals can also Recruit units in your cities (giving you one unit per three points of population) and build variety of national wonders."

 

[Fluesterwitz]

Ahwaric doesn't like it this way

Too bad ,
I tried to team up Acheron with a general just to prove it doesn't work - it doesn't. Any idea why Ahwaric is set against all-round generals? Lore, balancing or sth. else? There seem to be quite a few more of them around than before and being a hoarder and playing neutral Julia I can't bring myself to suicide them.

 

[Kalina]

Too bad ,
I tried to team up Acheron with a general just to prove it doesn't work - it doesn't. Any idea why Ahwaric is set against all-round generals? Lore, balancing or sth. else? There seem to be quite a few more of them around than before and being a hoarder and playing neutral Julia I can't bring myself to suicide them.

IIRC he sees Generals as leaders of traditional military units, not small bands or elite groups. I can certainly understand this approach, though I would like to be able to attach them to Recon units as well. With current abilities (more xp, withdrawal and even more xp) they better suit elite, high level or powerful units than normal, expandable units.

 

[Fluesterwitz]

IIRC he sees Generals as leaders of traditional military units, not small bands or elite groups.

That is actually my view too. I regard however the generals' retinues as core units only to be employed for the decisive push of a battle. Either they succeed and triumph or go down fighting.

As for small (recon) units, I made a request in the 0.30 thread for a promo that might make scouts usefull for their primary role, ie. scouting, without the need for them to be upgraded to light infantry first. *cough* Pathfinder *cough* I have no idea however, whether Ahwaric considered or saw it even.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

FF has a nice general system that suits them much better if you ask me.

 

[Kalina]

As for small (recon) units, I made a request in the 0.30 thread for a promo that might make scouts usefull for their primary role, ie. scouting, without the need for them to be upgraded to light infantry first. *cough* Pathfinder *cough* I have no idea however, whether Ahwaric considered or saw it even.

I hope he did because I like this idea :> Though it would shorten 'undiscovered world' time at game's beginning even more (though it got better with hawk's removal)

FF has a nice general system that suits them much better if you ask me.

How does it work ? Didn't play FF much..

 

[Valkrionn]

How does it work ? Didn't play FF much..

Essentially, the general can 'lead' multiple units. Number can vary, it's set via xml and is modified by promotions.

The units it leads can be granted special bonuses (Can have a general take a promotion which grants his minions Tactics1, for instance), can grant their General a promotion in return (rarer, but used extensively for the Bannor... Search for a 'Chain of Command' thread in the FF forum), and grant some xp to the general whenever they win a fight, modified by the level difference (Get less xp if they are far apart in level, best to use a level 5 general for a level 4-6 unit).

One thing I use it for is Zarcaz; A barbarian Goblin Archer hero who spawns in control of a Scorpion Clan Archer, a Scorpion Clan Goblin, and a Scorpion Clan Wolf Rider.

 

[Milaga]

Essentially, the general can 'lead' multiple units. Number can vary, it's set via xml and is modified by promotions.

The units it leads can be granted special bonuses (Can have a general take a promotion which grants his minions Tactics1, for instance), can grant their General a promotion in return (rarer, but used extensively for the Bannor... Search for a 'Chain of Command' thread in the FF forum), and grant some xp to the general whenever they win a fight, modified by the level difference (Get less xp if they are far apart in level, best to use a level 5 general for a level 4-6 unit).

One thing I use it for is Zarcaz; A barbarian Goblin Archer hero who spawns in control of a Scorpion Clan Archer, a Scorpion Clan Goblin, and a Scorpion Clan Wolf Rider.

Somehow I don't think Zarcaz's ability to lead anyone is his strength. It's his ability to rain hellfire on anyone within two tiles. I fear him more than any of the monkeys or horsemen.

But I love his bow, because I can win any game with it.

 

[Valkrionn]

Somehow I don't think Zarcaz's ability to lead anyone is his strength. It's his ability to rain hellfire on anyone within two tiles. I fear him more than any of the monkeys or horsemen.

But I love his bow, because I can win any game with it.

Depends on when how developed you are when he spawns. Yes, the bow is awesome, but he can lead a total of 5 units... 3 spawn with him. Basically, if he runs into any groups he will become the nucleus of a traveling army... Which is awesome.

Really need to work on the Barb AI so that's the norm, or at least has a better chance of happening around strong units.