Paris burning

[Shaihulud]

Can't really blame us foreigners for trying to input on the conversation, it is interesting that medias from different countries differ in their opinions. Sure Islam may not be the initial spark that caused the riots, but im sure it will become a rallying point for many of the rioters, afterall thats what dissatisfied do don't they? They find common cause, unless you think the cause is some rapper hooligans .

 

[kryszcztov]

I could rely on our Belgian Duck's words, but I can speak too...

Ok everybody, there you have it, its official: from now on, only people who have been to France, or have seen a French movie, can comment on events in France. What a bunch of baloney

It was just to show that the side effect of having America's culture invade our countries is that we get to know you better than you know us... I guess it makes perfect sense, YES or NO ? Please don't ignore my arguments, does it make sense, YES or NO ? Woohoo, Bozo ? Like Marla said, there are plenty of ways to learn about France. Surely not by throwing sheet on a thread at CFC without having watched something else than some crappy news, and surely not by ignoring our arguments while producing nothing else than your daily anti-Mulsim rant...

May be european movies are not good enough to give us picture of Europe?

How would you personally know if you have never watched a French movie ? Personally I have always been fond of American cinema, such cool movies that you get to see when you're a kid, etc... As you grow up, you realize that European cinema can be good too. A few directors worth checking (don't know all their movies, but I like their movies so far) : Jean-Pierre Jeunet (France), Lars von Trier (Denmark), Luc Besson (USA, err... France )... While I'm sure you don't know these names (good if you do), I'm also sure you've heard about some of their movies... Google time. Hollywood is hardly the nirvana for me today BTW.

Hahaha how ironic. When America experienced Katrina that exposed injustice and discrimination, France had a field day but now that France has been exposed to have injustice and discrimination in its own shores, they don't like us to make even a sniff! If you looked up the definition of Irony, you would see a picture of the riots in Paris.

Actually some American posters here have a rather accurate of the events and the environment, go figure... Those who enter the debate with their post-9/11 trauma are biaised and will refuse to listen to the world. This is just nitpick on the Internet, but it is dramatic. Actually many of us think your President does the same as you. What's the point in argueing if one side keeps on giving arguments on the topic while the other side makes false assumptions and provides counter-productive sources ? Answer me, what's the point ?

It's not our fault if your movies suck and people like ours better. But here's some advice. Quit subsidizing (sp?) the entertainment industry. If all they're going to pump out is utter dreck, don't give them money for it.

Well I don't care what you like. As long as you don't enter the debate making stupid posts about the French crisis... Here's a fact : American people only know American movies, while European people know both American and European movies. Who do you think is better informed, who has more culture diversity ?

 

[eyrei]

Moderator Action: This thread is not a competition to see what country is 'better'. Eyrei.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Steph]

Just a question, but why don't they just send in the military to calm them down.

a) Quelling such riots is the job of the police, not the army.
b) It may have been counter productice
c) Part of the army was already there with gendarmes (who depend of the minsitry of defense, not the interior)

 

[Bozo Erectus]

It may be a a little premature to speak of the unrest in the past tense:

Police in the French city of Lyon have fired tear gas to break up groups of youths who hurled stones and bins hours before a curfew was due to begin.

Police on the city's famous Place Bellecour square made two arrests in what state news agency AFP says is the first rioting in a major city centre.

Lyon has imposed a curfew for the first time in two weeks of nationwide unrest.

Thousands of police are patrolling Paris to enforce a ban on all public meetings likely to provoke rioting.

The trouble in Lyon began at about 1700 (1600 GMT) on Place Bellecour where a large number of riot police were on duty as a preventative measure.

About 50 youths attacked stalls and damaged vehicles, witnesses were quoted as saying by Reuters news agency.

Shoppers hurried away from the area and most shopkeepers closed their doors.

Officials in Lyon and 10 other towns to the east of the city earlier announced a curfew to bar unaccompanied minors from the streets over the weekend between 2200 and 0600 local time.

The worst suburban unrest on Friday night was reported in Lyon and the city of Toulouse in the south-west.

More than 500 cars were set on fire, two police officers were wounded and 206 people were detained across the country.

This was an increase on the previous night, when about 400 vehicles were torched and 168 people were arrested.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4430540.stm

 

[Akka]

Maybe if I was part of CNN and made that map, then you would have a point. But I'm not, so you're just wasting your breath. your "We're Europeans so we know more than you ever could about this" argument is stupid, just because I am not European does not mean I cannot learn about European politics and events. You are not American, and yet I don't think you have any trouble commenting on American politics. Hypocrite.

The difference is that I base my opinions on American politics on facts (many of them reported by US sources, BTW), not personnal crusade against a set a people.
You, on the other hand, are trying to put Islam as the reason of these riots, while every single reliable source says that it's not the case. You are wrong. Plainly, simply, and definitely, and that's fact.

Like Marla said, Islam is much more a point of identity than of spirituality with these troublesome youth. There IS islamic problems in France, it's TRUE, but they are NOT related with these riots in any way. You'll have to accept it, as frustrating as it is.

Hahaha how ironic. When America experienced Katrina that exposed injustice and discrimination, France had a field day but now that France has been exposed to have injustice and discrimination in its own shores, they don't like us to make even a sniff! If you looked up the definition of Irony, you would see a picture of the riots in Paris.

Well, I don't have a problem with anyone making a sniff at injustice, integration and discrimination problems (as long as they are real).
What I have a problem with, is people saying that it's a religious war, where it's overwhelmingly social, economical and cultural troubles.

 

[Marla_Singer]

"It's sad Nixon has been forced to resign because of the Ku Klux Klan. What an awful country is the US...

And if you say that it's wrong and that it's not the reason why Nixon has resigned, then it would only prove that you're a US bigot who don't accept foreigners can have an opinion on the US politics !"





Ok, seriously speaking, many people has very interesting points of view on the last events. And they are closer than you believe, you don't have too look furthere than in this specific thread to find a lot of them. I've been for instance very interested in what Little Raven has said. Eyrei's posts were also very interesting, and many other people have also made insightful remarks.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Moderator Action: This thread is not a competition to see what country is 'better'. Eyrei.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Because we all KNOW Britain is the greatest and hence is called Great Britain

The only people that are benefitting from the riots are car manufacturers, all those cars to be replaced - good time to buy shares in Citroen and Renault

 

[cegman]

kitten thats exactly what I said when I first heard about the riots. hmm... mabye they have kept the fire burning

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

a) Quelling such riots is the job of the police, not the army.

Well they (the police) are apparently not doing a very good job. Time to break out the knightsticks, tear gas, flashbangs, fire hoses, tasers, and load up the shotguns with rubber bullets and bean bags, just don't aim for the temple with those. You hit them there and they won't be sleeping when they go down.

 

[AsnoT]

France has been the first ally (actually the only ally) to the development of the Israeli nukes.

they got the plutonium for the first bombs (before dimona was producing) from the british, sorry to disappoint you, marla

 

[Elrohir]

The difference is that I base my opinions on American politics on facts (many of them reported by US sources, BTW), not personnal crusade against a set a people.
You, on the other hand, are trying to put Islam as the reason of these riots, while every single reliable source says that it's not the case. You are wrong. Plainly, simply, and definitely, and that's fact.

Like Marla said, Islam is much more a point of identity than of spirituality with these troublesome youth. There IS islamic problems in France, it's TRUE, but they are NOT related with these riots in any way. You'll have to accept it, as frustrating as it is.

Ahh, so when you say something, it's automatically completely true and based on facts, but when I say something, it's the biased opinion of an inbred American redneck who hunts squirrels for a living and favorite phrases are "shucks, weren't nuthin" and "dangit mah!".

Has anyone ever told you that you have a serious ego that is badly in need of deflating?

I'm still waiting for that "50% of the rioters are not Muslims" link. Really, I want to read that, but no one has posted it yet.

 

[Akka]

Not all opinions are equal, and yours on this point is wrong. This has nothing to do with my supposed arrogance, or you being American, but it has all to do with you being misinformed and having an agenda.
Deal with it, saying that I have issues with my ego won't magically make these riots islamic ones (the fact that rioters have a big numbers of "muslims" is irrelevant, just like when a "christian" rob someone, it's a crime for money, not about religion).

 

[kryszcztov]

Elrohir : People who blame Islam for everything like it was the case for Jews one century ago will only repeat the situation back then. It's people thinking like you do who got Hitler in power. Need for a scapegoat = not able to think and update oneself. Ignorance -> indifference -> rejection of the others -> hatred.

If these events were a Muslim insurrection, I wonder why they didn't get bombed in Paris, like al-Qaeda followers usually do ? Nor speaked about it on TV channels ? Why didn't the young rioters claim this was a Muslim insurrection on TV ? Why was there zero message of the kind ? ZERO message. Do you need a Michael Moore to put the truth in front of you, or can you answer with arguments here ? And it's not shameful to reckon that you were off the point, you know, we can understand that you felt badly informed but now changed your point of view. We can understand, you know, we're all humans.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Shame what happened really, I mean that in all seriousness. All of my love for the French aside this rioting shows a side of France not many outside of it knew existed.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Shame what happened really, I mean that in all seriousness. All of my love for the French aside this rioting shows a side of France not many outside of it knew existed.

That couldn't be my fault. I've talked about France cultural diversity numerous times in this forum, and I mentioned several times the issues in the French cités.

Those things have never been hidden, I've made list to French hip hop music to numerous Americans, giving the messages and the call for insurrection we could find in those songs. But it's always the same. People don't want to know. Once you have an image of a country, you don't want to change it.

Now I'm called anti-American when I say that France is one of the country in the world which is the most disconnected from its international image. But what you've said just proves it.

I don't know how to explain such a distortion. I would say it's based on prejudice mainly, it's also based on the fact French people don't make enough efforts to explain their differences probably. But anyway, it's obvious there's a problem here.

By the way, do you know that it's been nearly 20 years now that France is the second producer of hip hop music in the world ?

 

[kryszcztov]

Just watched a debate on TV ("Ripostes" on France5, never watched that one before), about this issue. Never was Islam as a religion mentioned as one of the causes for the riots and the situation in the cités. Oh, better than that : everyone agreed Islam had nothing to do with it (which is slightly different). And mind you, one of the guys around the table was Tariq Ramadan, which I saw once or twice before, who is a professor guest at the University of Oxford (UK), and is seen as an ambiguous Muslim orator... Even that guy said Islam was not the problem. I mean, al-Qaeda is far, very far, so far from here... That doesn't mean he's a cool guy though : he started the debate by saying that he viewed the riots as a legitimate (morally) action while not being for them. I don't see the difference.

 

[nonconformist]

Shame what happened really, I mean that in all seriousness. All of my love for the French aside this rioting shows a side of France not many outside of it knew existed.

You'd actually be surprised; the French love a good clash with the police when they can, and this certainly isn't the first riots of this magnitude in PAris.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

I'll admit France is a very strange place Marla, I spent a few weeks there when I did my european invasion and I was really taken back by some things. The same goes for the US though, it's one picture from the outside and another from the inside.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I'll admit France is a very strange place Marla, I spent a few weeks there when I did my european invasion and I was really taken back by some things. The same goes for the US though, it's one picture from the outside and another from the inside.

I guess it's true for various other countries too. The thing is that French people are rather arrogant in world affairs, believing they have the miracle solution about everything, a bit like Americans actually.