Paris burning

[Bozo Erectus]

Many are 2nd or 3rd generation. They are not immigrants but are French.

They have a different cultural background and are highly likely to be unable to find work:
This doesn't help people to feel incuded in a society.

Rioting and random, mindless violence doesnt do much to get people included in society either.

 

[IglooDame]

Do you have a better suggestion pray tell? When there is a week of rioting and the police can do nothing to quash it then the military is needed. These rioters need to feel the consequences of their actions.

As I said before martial law, curfew and sending in the army should be enough to quell any rioting. The military prescense is usually enough.

If that still does'nt work then the traditonal riot control methods should be utilized, trunhons, rubber bullets, water cannons, tear gas, pepper spray, tasers, attack dogs etc.... (In India this stuff is too expensive so the people are simply beaten with bamboo sticks instead)

If it still continues then order the military to use lethal force. Simple enough. In all liklihood the rioting will cease at the first sign of military prescense.

Well, they're up in arms about the police chasing two teens to their death in the first place (I know, it isn't what actually happened, but you know what version they're going to believe), so the police getting a lot tougher doesn't seem like it'll do anything except put a brick on the lid of a pot full of boiling water.

It probably wouldn't hurt to do a massive number of arrests of rioters on a single night, and hold them for 24-48 hours (with no abuses or on the side kick-in-the-head actions by the police). Then, after having recorded all their identities, the government can be magnanimous and release them (neatly giving both sides an escape route), with the warning that if they're caught again they'll be held and charged for sure. Rioters like anonymity; when it is taken away there's a bit of roaches-scurrying-for-the-wall effect.

 

[Hitro]

Rioting and random, mindless violence doesnt do much to get people included in society either.

They are clearly beyond the point where they'd care...

 

[HannibalBarka]

Do you have a better suggestion pray tell? When there is a week of rioting and the police can do nothing to quash it then the military is needed. These rioters need to feel the consequences of their actions.

As I said before martial law, curfew and sending in the army should be enough to quell any rioting. The military prescense is usually enough.

If that still does'nt work then the traditonal riot control methods should be utilized, trunhons, rubber bullets, water cannons, tear gas, pepper spray, tasers, attack dogs etc.... (In India this stuff is too expensive so the people are simply beaten with bamboo sticks instead)

If it still continues then order the military to use lethal force. Simple enough. In all liklihood the rioting will cease at the first sign of military prescense.

These are the French after all.....
(j/k)

Thank you Silver for all your advise, but here in France we do not send the Army against our own citizen any more. Don't worry, we'll deal with it in a civilized manner

 

[Princeps]

As I said before martial law, curfew and sending in the army should be enough to quell any rioting. The military prescense is usually enough.

How many rioters where there? Hmm, few hundred or something, IIRC. You dont need military personel or hardware to solve such, the Paris police probably is capable of quelling such riot.

But, no we should bring in the military and declare martial law and shoot all in sight,. That would destroy France's reputation and would only cause more problems, more riots, more scandals etc. The solution would be (far) worse than the problem.

It would be (very) short term solution.

If it still continues then order the military to use lethal force. Simple enough. In all liklihood the rioting will cease at the first sign of military prescense.

The whole problem is caused by failure to listen to the people. IIRC, the rioters lived in poor conditions, to solve the problem you have to solve its causes of it.

If a protest grows into riots then force can be used, but lower decrees of law enforcement not the military.

 

[Japher]

Don't worry, we'll deal with it in a civilized manner

How? Surrender? How long does it take to launder those whites?!

 

[HannibalBarka]

Rioting and random, mindless violence doesnt do much to get people included in society either.

That's like who was first the egg or the chicken?

The fact that immigrant are discriminated against when they try to find a job, make some of them become violent and get into criminal activities (drug dealing, etc), wich worsen the image of all immigrants and increase discrimination against them, and so on and so forth

 

[HannibalBarka]

How? Surrender? How long does it take to launder those whites?!

Who is talking about surrender???
Our police will take care of the problem, don't worry. Hey, it's not like a civil war you know, the whole issue have been exagereted, The riots didn't even cause one single death. So sending the Army is really not needed. French people will not accept seeing the French Army shooting on french unless rioting cause death

 

[silver 2039]

How many rioters where there? Hmm, few hundred or something, IIRC. You dont need military personel or hardware to solve such, the Paris police probably is capable of quelling such riot.

But, no we should bring in the military and declare martial law and shoot all in sight,. That would destroy France's reputation and would only cause more problems, more riots, more scandals etc. The solution would be (far) worse than the problem.

It would be (very) short term solution.



The whole problem is caused by failure to listen to the people. IIRC, the rioters lived in poor conditions, to solve the problem you have to solve its causes of it.

If a protest grows into riots then force can be used, but lower decrees of law enforcement not the military.

So far the police apper incapable of solving this. In addition to that nothing can be done about the poverty and living condtions and such until riots end.
Thus the riots must cease before anything can be done. Judging by the fact the riots have gone on for 7 days it is fair to assume the police cannots stop it. Thus the military is required.

 

[silver 2039]

Thank you Silver for all your advise, but here in France we do not send the Army against our own citizen any more. Don't worry, we'll deal with it in a civilized manner

I yearn for the good old days when one could bucther one's citizens on the street and be applauded for it.....

 

[Hitro]

I yearn for the good old days when one could bucther one's citizens on the street and be applauded for it.....

Maybe the British will come back if you ask them nicely?

 

[Princeps]

So far the police apper incapable of solving this. In addition to that nothing can be done about the poverty and living condtions and such until riots end.
Thus the riots must cease before anything can be done. Judging by the fact the riots have gone on for 7 days it is fair to assume the police cannots stop it. Thus the military is required.

As I said it would be worse than the actual problem itself to bring military in. It would not take any less time from the army to bring the situation under control.

 

[anarres]

Rioting and random, mindless violence doesnt do much to get people included in society either.

I didn't say or imply that it did.

Since when is the symptom of a problem meant to be a solution to that problem?

I guess you are saying they should advance their cause a better way: can you suggest one? The whole reason behind rioting like this is that these people don't feel included in society and that they do not have a voice. The employment figures back it up: if you are of black african descent it is harder to get a job even with the same employment level as a white French person.

Note I am not condoning the riots at all - but you can't say "this is a stupid way to make a point"... it's just meaningless rhetoric.

 

[kryszcztov]

After reading this thread, I know that those who only condone police actions would do exactly the same as our current polticians, ie. not solve the problems at their root. If you were making speeches in the street about this issue, I would throw tomatoes at your faces. Because let's face it : you have absolutely NO solution to this problem.

Everyone is exaggerating these events. There has been no death in those riots so far, NONE. In fact, the root of these riots (ie. those people's everyday lives) are a lot bigger in terms of importance and impact than those riots. The living conditions in those areas, which have been becoming worse and worse for a few decades can't be less important than those riots since one week. And you only speak of those riots !! I'd say "let the police do its job and go back to the real problems". That's what a politician should do. And what they're not doing. Sarkozy belongs to the politican scum group. This guy is a national danger. To run his Americanized police, he steals money from honest people, like me. The other day, the police charged us 135 € for leaving our car on a place for handicapped people ; my mother was at the drugstore 5 meters away, with crutches... We didn't have the special sticker... That is what I call a police state, and that was just an example. Erk.

 

[kronic]

I just read that until the riots started already 9000 police cars were burnt down this year in France. That makes 30 cars/day. Quite a lot I think. I don't remember any news about German police cars being burnt.

That said, I don't think that the French situation is any different when compared to the rest of Europe. Tensions are rising everywhere...

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I didn't say or imply that it did.

Since when is the symptom of a problem meant to be a solution to that problem?

I guess you are saying they should advance their cause a better way: can you suggest one? The whole reason behind rioting like this is that these people don't feel included in society and that they do not have a voice. The employment figures back it up: if you are of black african descent it is harder to get a job even with the same employment level as a white French person.

France must offer something, or people wouldnt be risking their lives to get there. I dont doubt those figures, but Im sure they dont tell the whole picture. There are millions of immigrants in France, they arent rioting, theyre helping to run the country. This is an extremely small segment of the Muslim immigrant community thats rioting. How about this: the people who are rioting are just aholes and its an insult to the real immigrant community thats too busy busting its ass working, to run around setting fire to things. Just because the rioters are Muslim and African doesnt mean that what theyre doing in any way represents the Muslim African community and its concerns. Theyre just idiots that need to be either locked up or deported, for the good of everyone.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

After reading this thread, I know that those who only condone police actions would do exactly the same as our current polticians, ie. not solve the problems at their root. If you were making speeches in the street about this issue, I would throw tomatoes at your faces. Because let's face it : you have absolutely NO solution to this problem.

Whats your solution, some new, misguided, badly thought out and implemented Government welfare programs?

Everyone is exaggerating these events. There has been no death in those riots so far, NONE.

People keep repeating this like it means something. Its like if I break into your house and smack you around and raid your fridge, and at my trial, my defense is that I didnt kill you.

Sarkozy belongs to the politican scum group. This guy is a national danger. To run his Americanized police, he steals money from honest people, like me.

There it is! I was wondering when America would somehow become linked with the disorder in France. If it wasnt for that American influenced scum, none of this would be happening!

 

[The Fjonis]

I think they should build a temple and get some luxuries in.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Yeah Villepan should let the City Governors manage citizens moods

 

[kryszcztov]

France must offer something, or people wouldnt be risking their lives to get there. I dont doubt those figures, but Im sure they dont tell the whole picture. There are millions of immigrants in France, they arent rioting, theyre helping to run the country. This is an extremely small segment of the Muslim immigrant community thats rioting. How about this: the people who are rioting are just aholes and its an insult to the real immigrant community thats too busy busting its ass working, to run around setting fire to things. Just because the rioters are Muslim and African doesnt mean that what theyre doing in any way represents the Muslim African community and its concerns. Theyre just idiots that need to be either locked up or deported, for the good of everyone.

Maybe those young people represent... themselves ??? Oh, you hadn't thought of this ? Oh I'm sorry, dude. Why do you always want to talk about representation ? So they're a minority and that's why we shouldn't care about them because they don't represent the majority ? Mind you, A LOT of people in this country and in yours are silently suffering everyday. But because they have a job, because they have children, etc... they're not keen on burning cars at night. It's always a matter of relativity. If we send those young people to jail, a new (better-living) group will then do the same, becoming the worst-living group in society after all the others were sent to jail. Your solution isn't a solution.

Whats your solution, some new, misguided, badly thought out and implemented Government welfare programs?

I'm not saying I have a solution. That's always better than claiming that I have one. *cough* Otherwise I would make it a duty to become a politician or a local influent guy. Still, I have my geneal ideas about what should be done. As already said, Education is key. It starts in families, at school, in social activities, etc... And no ghetto. Don't expect them to behave nicely when all that they've known is scarce living, violence, indifference, racism, discrimination. When they wake up and the police points a gun at their heads, I wouldn't expect them to hope anything from life. Someone who has nothing to lose is entirely free (see Fight Club ). Free to behave in irrational manners, free to destroy other people's lives and his own. What does he care ? Nada. What do you care ? A lot. It's not symetrical. You have the means, not them.

People keep repeating this like it means something. Its like if I break into your house and smack you around and raid your fridge, and at my trial, my defense is that I didnt kill you.

Some people compared that to the riots in LA in 1992, where it seems that many people were killed. Let's restate the truth, please. I prefer you to destroy my house than to kill me, obviously.

There it is! I was wondering when America would somehow become linked with the disorder in France. If it wasnt for that American influenced scum, none of this would be happening!

I didn't link America to the disorder in France. I linked America to the way the French police is evolving. Flashballs, etc... The other day I saw a program where the police said that they were borrowing new methods from the American police. Sarkozy is fond of that. I'm not. There, I restored the truth here as well.