Paris burning

[LordRahl]

There's immigrants, and then there's immigrants. When's the last time you saw immigrants from Eastern Europe rioting? How about immigrants from China? What about Mexican? All I see these immigrants doing is work hard.

In majority of cases (and certainly in case of Paris) it's the immigrants from 3rd world countries are usually the ones causing trouble. Why? That's how life looks in a 3rd world country...

 

[Urederra]

WTH!? You're suppose to give them drivers liscences like we do to our mexicans

Have your mexicans ever rioted? So maybe there is a difference, (cultural)

Edit> Ops... Haven't seen your post, LordRahl. I just replied to a post in the third page

Seems that the geniuses agree.

 

[LordRahl]

Seems that the geniuses agree.

I believe the quote goes like this :
"Great minds think alike"

 

[Urederra]

Oh yeah. That's definately how democracies handle things.

Of course it is. In democracies crimes are prosecuted and punished, in anarchy crimes are not punished, that is why they it is called anarchy

 

[Urederra]

I believe the quote goes like this :
"Great minds think alike"

OK, Thanks, Mine was a direct translation from spanish to English, which never works with old quotes.

 

[Urederra]

It's a good thing though that Sarkozy loses his good reputation. Finally.

Maybe the owners of the 750 burned cars and their families will vote Sarkozy instead of Villepin in next elections.

 

[klazlo]

The thing is that there's no "Fortress Europe". Certain West European countries have 10 % of the population or more (i.e. millions of) immigrants.

"Fortress Europe" is a widely used term to summarize european immigration policies. Having a large proportion of immigrants is one thing, but doing something to integrate them to the native societies is another. Immigrants are useful to do crappy jobs, but are given very few benefits, and social exclusion is a common problem. The "fortress" part is not simply keeping out them physically from the schengen area, but also separating them socially once they are inside. There might be exceptions, but it's the general policy nevertheless.
And once millions of immigrants are inside, but socially excluded - here comes trouble. Also, European demographics give about two generations for the old europe to solve this general situation, even if you guys close the schengen borders tomorrow.

 

[LordRahl]

Also, European demographics give about two generations for the old europe to solve this general situation, even if you guys close the schengen borders tomorrow.

Eastern European Immigrants, should have no problem taking care of the West.

 

[klazlo]

Eastern European Immigrants, should have no problem taking care of the West.

Too bad that they aren't welcome, despite they would not even riot!
BTW, Eastern European population decline is even faster than the western european one.

 

[Drewcifer]

Have your mexicans ever rioted? So maybe there is a difference, (cultural)

Edit> Ops... Haven't seen your post, LordRahl. I just replied to a post in the third page

Seems that the geniuses agree.

Which cultures are you talking about, Latin American vs Muslim or European vs North American? There are a lot of Muslim Somali immigrants in my city. So far they seem to be following a similar trajectory as Jewish and Southeast Asian immigrants in previous waves - they persue education in large numbers, generally stay out of trouble, and work their way into the middle class pretty quickly. The parents expect their children to excel with the new opportunities they have and usually they do. The Iranians who moved here in the 80s are already there.

Edit: I am not using this to say that the US is better than Europe in some way, It is just an example that those who say Muslim immigrants cannot be assimilated are speaking bs.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I wonder if they'll declare martial law.

With the riots in ten straight night running. I'd be interested to see military which will shoot to kill as opposed to police arrest and detain methods.
But given the news coverage it dose seem alarmest

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Wouldn't be smart to kill one of these guys ,instant martyr ,only stenghten their cause.

I'm anticipating the day that they walk in the thousands to the Bastille and begin burning French flags ,that symbolism will hurt a lot.

Ive seen the situation of these people in city's like Paris ,or Lille where i live nearby (it's near the Flemmish border) , it's the failure of france it's integration policy ,and more.The ugly flat building's ,piles upon piles of concrete ,the ugly city's where immigrants are packed and stacked.The criminality ,the unemployement ,it's there longer than these last ten days.

That the bomb would explode ,one day ,could be forseen.There had been precedents ,and shady would be sollutions from the goverment ,never improved the worsening situation.Not that many people are surpirzed by the fact of this rebbelion ,only by it's intensity.But it's a cry that goes loud ,you don't mobilize that many rioters for fun ,it's a war with a reason ,but withought a goal.But what goal could they have .. the French suburbs are ugly and desolate as they are ,the costs to rectify te situation are astronomical and just unbearable.Who can give a humane and constructive sollution?There is no dialogue ,the righters don't ask it neither ,probably they don't see a way out ,and then i would call them realistic.The only option here looks to be queling the revolt with force ,it will be a black moment in the History of the French republic.

It's a civil conflict and generation conflict mixed ,young immigrants rioting because otherwise they have no goal in life anyway.Give a person a decent living to live for and he won't be prone to rioting.It's spreading within France ,and it could spread outside France to.Atleast belgium and the Netherlands are vulnerable for similar conflict ,and i bet italy even more.

But why not? Why not burn french flags on the Bastille? Egalite and fraternite ,when have they been lost in the French suburbs?

 

[luiz]

Make that 1,300 cars burned last night.
The most alarming, though, is the fact that rioters are now burning things such as schools and libraries.

 

[classical_hero]

Send them all to jail. I might even send back to there home country if it is possible.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Make a dialogue about these issue's ,and keep the dialogue going.Rock this issue on the political agenda for years to come.This episode should deffinatly change french politics.

In Belgium the immigrant issue has been on the political agenda for almost a decade.While for years Belgians have been ashamed by the Vlaams blok/belang having such a prominent position in Belgian politics ,i think these days people begin to view this issue in a different light.
Now i was never a VB supporter ,au contraire ,neither a AEL supporter.But i get the feeling that ,by the fact that this issue has been on the political agenda here for years ,many thing's have changed in Belgian politics to alleviate the social rift.Atleast these days there are quite a lot of former immigrants holding important political positions.Heck the most powerfull politician here is a gay Ittalian immigrant ,no problem with that though.It is the VB that has relentlessly put forward these issue's for years ,and the AEL that countered from their perspective ,it has forced a dilogue that brought change ,most importantly it has channeled this issue and spread the aproach to sollution in years ,so there was a softer transition.

I get the feeling that France ,and also the Netherlands comparably ,have paid the price for shunning these issue's for years.Atleast Dutch politics were the most boring of europe for decade's ,and it allienated people from politics and important isue's ,up to the point that the issue had to explode in their face.This could be seen by the innitial poppularity by pim Fortuyn ,suddently a big gaping wound was opened in dutch politcs where noone had perceived it to exist if you watched it from the outside.Afcourse the murders only made it worse ,but IMO there wasn't any transitional dialogue ,no step by step aproach ,the wound was opened all to sudden.I get the feeling this is the similar case in France ,the issue has been shunned for years ,never really well aproached or exstesivly discussed.Then when the conflict sparks ,it suddently escalate's in unseen proportion.That is my humble view though ,and it's not a chauvinistic aproach i think ,i never really liked the VB here anyway.

 

[eyrei]

I wonder who you would even talk to if you wanted to start a dialogue on the causes of this...

 

[Bozo Erectus]

The Paris Insurgency continues. How long before IEDs are being used by the 'insurgents'?

Just checking: Is there still anyone out there who thinks Europe should continue allowing immigration from Muslim countries?

If you allowed a poor family into your home, and then they beat you up and set fire to your house, would you accept more?

 

[CurtSibling]

Used to be called a Communist solution - how times have changed.

Well, I always say that the USA has became the soviet beast it used to fight!

PS
I think a cloned Napoleon should be reinstated as leader!

 

[classical_hero]

Ir seems like Muslims keep acting as if the West is a fault and yet every time there has been trouble it has first been started by Muslims and not the other way around. It seems that for some Muslims, any excuse will do to make trouble, even if they start it and Authorities want to stop it and they blame the Authorities for there troubles. A similar incident happened in Australia, but fortunately the skirmishes were tiny compared to what is happening in Paris. Why is there so much disrespect of authprity nowadays, because that is what this boils down to.

 

[boogaboo]

I'm just happy that the EU has one problem worse than we do, so they can once lead the way and tell us what's the humanitarian way to solve it, before we Israelis try to do something.

On another note:
The roof, the roof,
the roof is on fire.
We don't need no water, let the MF burn.
Burn, MF, burn.
(and thanks for all the nukes (...fish))