Paris burning

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

It is not about race, it is about ideology.

You obviously see muslims as all 'Arab' - so by that fact, you are assuming
they are all Middle Easterners. Which is racist, because muslims come in
many cultures and colours...So you are making a stereotype.

And I hold that muslims have a creed that sets them at odds with the world.

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I didn't say all muslims are Arabs.I know all to well that there are many african country's with muslims ,or Asian ones.I just metioned there exist arab atheists as an example ,but that wasn't ment as a generalization at all.Don't twist my words for youre gain.

Even then ,i wouldn't know why you call that what you perceived as racism.

I agree that there are dogma's wich a percentage of muslims follow that conflict with western value's ,like the treatment of women wich can conflict with basic human rights in the west.Vive versa certain westeners hold dogma's wich would conflict in the Muslim world.Are you trying to prove the superiority of certain dogma's?In any case every society has multiple facet's ,thinking that all muslims think alike is absurd ,but we only hear of those muslims that hold the dogma's that conflict with ours ,intigrated muslims are usually not noticed. (because they are intigrated)

 

[classical_hero]

They are ideologically against our way of life...

They think we are all white christian devils...And I find that offensive!!!

.

Of course it is offensive. We cannot say anything bad about the even if it is the truth and they can do what they please to us. That is not a society I want to be living in. All peoples should be able to live in harmony and have the right to be able to believe in God and not being worried about the fact that because someone who does not believe what you do, it means they are automatically enemies of you. Most decent people would want o live in a society like that and that is the kind of religion I want to be spreading. One that does not force you to believe what I believe and respects the others person right to respectfully disagree with what you believe in. That is true religious tollerance. And that is what the Bible tells us how Christians should behave in the world.

 

[Drewcifer]

How would you characterise it then?

And you still didnt answer my question.

I don't have time to answer your question, I am supposed to be asleep right now and soon will be, mabye I will answer it later.

But let us put that statement into another context:

It is 1969 in the US after the riots: "All the major conflicts in our cities today are caused by black people"

You connect the dots.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Of course it is offensive. We cannot say anything bad about the even if it is the truth and they can do what they please to us. That is not a society I want to be living in. All peoples should be able to live in harmony and have the right to be able to believe in God and not being worried about the fact that because someone who does not believe what you do, it means they are automatically enemies of you. Most decent people would want o live in a society like that and that is the kind of religion I want to be spreading. One that does not force you to believe what I believe and respects the others person right to respectfully disagree with what you believe in. That is true religious tollerance. And that is what the Bible tells us how Christians should behave in the world.

that is ,if you interprate the bible well.You could as well take the conclusion of the bible that we have to smack down all non believers ,as the chruch did in the middle ages or in the renesaince.It's the same with the koran ,it's all up to the interpretation.

Look, guys, lets just try to be objective and look around at the world today. Is there any major conflict occuring that doesnt involve Muslims?

Recently, no,

Unbelievable ,the congo conflict was the largest and most deadly of the lmast decade ,and most people didn't care back then ,and so it seem now neither.Already forgotten? And the rwanda conflict??

 

[classical_hero]

I didn't say all muslims are Arabs.I know all to well that there are many african country's with muslims ,or Asian ones.I just metioned there exist arab atheists as an example ,but that wasn't ment as a generalization at all.Don't twist my words for youre gain.

Even then ,i wouldn't know why you call that what you perceived as racism.

I agree that there are dogma's wich a percentage of muslims follow that conflict with western value's ,like the treatment of women wich can conflict with basic human rights in the west.Vive versa certain westeners hold dogma's wich would conflict in the Muslim world.Are you trying to prove the superiority of certain dogma's?In any case every society has multiple facet's ,thinking that all muslims think alike is absurd ,but we only hear of those muslims that hold the dogma's that conflict with ours ,intigrated muslims are usually not noticed. (because they are intigrated)

Then why did you call Bozo a borderline Racist? It has absolutely nothing to with race, even though most Muslims are not white, but it would not matter if it was white muslims or white "Christians" doing the damage, because it rong and you should not be defending there behaviour because you are basically defending Anarchy.

 

[classical_hero]

that is ,if you interprate the bible well.You could as well take the conclusion of the bible that we have to smack down all non believers ,as the chruch did in the middle ages or in the renesaince.It's the same with the koran ,it's all up to the interpretation.

There is nothing in the Bible that says that we should kill infidels. It says that those who believe will suffer persecution for what they believe. Ther are many examples in te Bible of believers suffering for there beliefs. So Biblical Christianity is a peaceful belief.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I don't have time to answer your question, I am supposed to be asleep right now and soon will be, mabye I will answer it later.

But let us put that statement into another context:

It is 1969 in the US after the riots: "All the major conflicts in our cities today are caused by black people"

You connect the dots.

If by 'conflicts' you mean riots, then I would have to say that "all major conflicts in our cities in 1965 were caused by black people." Not 1969 however.

 

[classical_hero]

Unbelievable ,the congo conflict was the largest and most deadly of the lmast decade ,and most people didn't care back then ,and so it seem now neither.Already forgotten? And the rwanda conflict??

That was one or two out of a lot.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Then why did you call Bozo a borderline Racist? It has absolutely nothing to with race, even though most Muslims are not white, but it would not matter if it was white muslims or white "Christians" doing the damage, because it rong and you should not be defending there behaviour because you are basically defending Anarchy.

Because Bozo's comments were aimed at Muslims in general.Yes not a race but a religious group ,mind you when hitler was exterminating 6 million jews these people had muliple nationality's to ,their connection was religious no?

I am not defending their actions (wich actions do you mean? terrorism? The french riots?) ,none of thse actions i agree with ,but i am trying to explain why frecnh politics have created a breeding ground for such conflict.

Anarchy? I am all pro order ,i am mostly scoialist oriented ,moderatly left.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

That was one or two out of a lot.

Yes ,like

The burma civil war (no muslims)
The columbian civil war (no muslims)
A set of civil wars in Africa ,liberia ,ivoria ,to many to name ,mostly non-muslim.
Yougoslavian civil war (some Muslims ,but they were rather at the receiving end)

Want me to name some more?

 

[classical_hero]

Because Bozo's comments were aimed at Muslims in general.

I am not defending their actions (wich actions do you mean? terrorism? The french riots?) ,none of thse actions i agree with ,but i am trying to explain why frecnh politics have created a breeding ground for such conflict.

Anarchy? I am all pro order ,i am mostly scoialist oriented ,moderatly left.

Unfortunately a few bad apples spoil the pie. It is often the actions of a few that the vveiws of a whole group is viewed upon as believing. If muslims were serious about there religion, then they would be trying to standing in the way of the roitous youths. But so far I have seen nne of that.

 

[Drewcifer]

If by 'conflicts' you mean riots, then I would have to say that "all major conflicts in our cities in 1965 were caused by black people." Not 1969 however.

I was talking about the 1968 race riots after MLK was shot but I have no desire to get caught up in a pendantic discussion about that in this thread.

Can you not see beyond groups?

You seem to want to paint groups as the transgressers rather than the individuals who do the actions.

You accuse a whole group and talk about them as if they have a universal group guilt when we are really discussing the actions of individuals.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Because Bozo's comments were aimed at Muslims in general.

I am not defending their actions (wich actions do you mean? terrorism? The french riots?) ,none of thse actions i agree with ,but i am trying to explain why frecnh politics have created a breeding ground for such conflict.

Anarchy? I am all pro order ,i am mostly scoialist oriented ,moderatly left.

Im just tired of adding 'extremists' every time I have say the word Muslim in a converstaion about violence and mayhem. Since the vast peaceful Muslim community pretty much remains silent and uncritical of the extremists in their midst (except when an especially horrific attack occurs and they recite the now familiar 'Islam is a religion of peace'), from now on, Im not going to bother anymore.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Unfortunately a few bad apples spoil the pie. It is often the actions of a few that the vveiws of a whole group is viewed upon as believing. If muslims were serious about there religion, then they would be trying to standing in the way of the roitous youths. But so far I have seen nne of that.

OK ,lets call all American's KKK'rs now.


It's not forbidden to nuancate ,if the whole group is held responsible for the actions of the individual then it's because it's people like you or bozo are doing so.If you would just stop with it....

Im just tired of adding 'extremists' every time I have say the word Muslim in a converstaion about violence and mayhem.

Bad excuse ,especially in regards of youre comments.

 

[LordRahl]

There's an important lesson from this to be learned - pick the people you let in your country carefully...

 

[Drewcifer]

Im just tired of adding 'extremists' every time I have say the word Muslim in a converstaion about violence and mayhem. Since the vast peaceful Muslim community pretty much remains silent and uncritical of the extremists in their midst (except when an especially horrific attack occurs and they recite the now familiar 'Islam is a religion of peace'), from now on, Im not going to bother anymore.

No offence but that is nonsense. Practically every single major Muslim demonination in the west has wholeheartedly condemed the violent actions of their religious fanatics towards innocent non-combatants and really believes in what they say. All of the individual muslims I have met do to. Where the hell are you getting this crap you have filled your head with today?

Edit: maybe we should all be banned and this thread closed.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I was talking about the 1968 race riots after MLK was shot but I have no desire to get caught up in a pendantic discussion about that in this thread.

Can you not see beyond groups?

Why do you ask that question of me? Would you ask that of the leaders of the black civil rights movement? Of the womens liberation movement? Groups that fight for the rights of disabled people? Etc? Drewcifer, we may not like it or be thrilled with it, but the fact is, people come in groups of all shapes sizes colors and creeds. People instinctively clump together in groups, whther the criteria is race, religion, political philosophy, soccer, you name it. To deny this basic fact of human existence is to not live in the real world.

You seem to want to paint groups as the transgressers rather than the individuals who do the actions.

Lets put it this way. After reading the news for a few minutes, its fairly obvious that many individual transgressors in the world today are Muslim, and that their transgressions are being carried out against non Muslims.

 

[classical_hero]

OK ,lets call all American's KKK'rs now.

When was the last time you heard something bad about the KK and something they did. They are very much a minority in American society and when they have done something bad we here the outcries of Americans against them. The thing is that we do not here outcries when Spme Muslims do some evil things. That is the difference. It is when a group of people who are actually being hurt by the minority of that group and yet they are not doing anything about it, then they are just as bad as the people they are not condemning.

 

[Drewcifer]

People instinctively clump together in groups, whther the criteria is race, religion, political philosophy, soccer, you name it. To deny this basic fact of human existence is to not live in the real world.

All I can say is you live in a different slice of the world than I do. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

No offence but that is nonsense. Practically every single major Muslim demonination in the west has wholeheartedly condemed the violent actions of their religious fanatics towards innocent non-combatants and really believes in what they say. All of the individual muslims I have met do to.

These extremists dont function in a vacuum. How could they function at all if every Muslim hand was turned against them? My own personal opinion is that the people we're talking about are extremists only in action, not in thought or ideology within the Islamic world.

Edit: maybe we should all be banned and this thread closed.

Why would you want to close down the discussion? Disagreeing with certain politcally correct ideas in a civil way isnt a banable offense as far as I know.