Patraeus Resigns due to affair

[MobBoss]

You can, but I do not know why it should be a job requirement to not be an adulterer.

Why not? Adultery ruins a lot of things; families and careers. It is a breach of an intimate trust, often a solemn vow. It certainly shows part of ones character does it not?

 

[JollyRoger]

Why not? Adultery ruins a lot of things; families and careers. It is a breach of an intimate trust, often a solemn vow. It certainly shows part of ones character does it not?

You are so right. Based on those involved, it seems that married people are the ones most likely to engage in adultery. Therefore, we should keep married people out of jobs where adultery is a fireable offense.

 

[MobBoss]

I believe you fill out exactly the same form. At least I think that used to be the case. If you have any "evidence" to the contrary, please provide it.

Current version of the background security form, SF 86, is 1 October 2011. These type of forms get revised every few years based upon the changing needs of the military, and the security issues we currently face. So, the odds of the current version of the form being the same as the one you may have filled out 20 years ago or so are pretty slim.

That being said, there are no direct references to 'adultery' per se on the form, but rather on the issues that could result from such an action (i.e. legal proceedings, counseling, debt, domestic issues).

 

[GoodGame]

Since he has now refused to abide by the heterosexual DADT statutes, why isn't Patraeus being court martialed for adultery and conduct unbecoming an officer? Why isn't his pension and benefits being stripped away as they were for so many other victims of the hypocrisy rampant in the US military?

Or is this conduct only limited to his tenure in the CIA after he resigned his commission in August of last year?

Presumably he fully retired, and this is regarding a civil office position, so DADT really doesn't apply.

It's basically what Mob Boss said in that technically his security clearance can be downgraded which can affect one's qualifications for an official position. If the risk was being fired (which I'm skeptical that it was) then resigning was actually a smart move. It seems silly to me to yank one's clearance but technically it's something a foreign spy could exploit. If he was a rampant gambler, it'd be a similar problem.


And definitely the military does punish for adultery, regardless of gender. Military law is pretty puritan compared to some State's laws.

 

[Agent327]

Very saddened to hear this, especially as this is the field I am interested in going into. Disheartening. At least he had the decency to let it be known.

That's an interesting spin: he got found out, leaving no choice but to leave office. Anyone in a position of high office having an affair is prone to blackmail; if you're willing to take that risk, take the fall. Those are the choices.

 

[amadeus]

The Benghazi affair?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Patraeus Betray us?

That was some of the worst left-wing hackery ever.

Also, what does YMMV mean?

Finally: Can we stop bickering so bitterly about stupid stuff?

 

[JollyRoger]

Patraeus always seemed a bit eager to get into situations where pulling out had consequences.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Current version of the background security form, SF 86, is 1 October 2011. These type of forms get revised every few years based upon the changing needs of the military, and the security issues we currently face. So, the odds of the current version of the form being the same as the one you may have filled out 20 years ago or so are pretty slim.

That being said, there are no direct references to 'adultery' per se on the form, but rather on the issues that could result from such an action (i.e. legal proceedings, counseling, debt, domestic issues).

I never claimed the form has never changed. Now did I?

Form SF 86 actually has nothing directly to do with the US military. It is the same form that is filled out by anybody who needs a security clearance.

But thanks for corroborating my actual position in the matter. That there is no reason for any rational and sophisticated person who has morals that aren't based on the distant past to think that merely having an affair would be sufficient reason to deny them a security clearance.

Presumably he fully retired, and this is regarding a civil office position, so DADT really doesn't apply.

The completely inane adultery provision certainly does apply if he didn't start this particular affair until August of last year, even though he has intimately known her since 2006. It also calls into question how faithful he was in the past. I think having your very first affair at 60 is highly unusual.

And my DADT reference was a joke. It is common knowledge that you can easily have affairs in the US military just as long as you keep them confidential. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

It's basically what Mob Boss said in that technically his security clearance can be downgraded which can affect one's qualifications for an official position. If the risk was being fired (which I'm skeptical that it was) then resigning was actually a smart move. It seems silly to me to yank one's clearance but technically it's something a foreign spy could exploit. If he was a rampant gambler, it'd be a similar problem.

I think if you look at the details of this particular case that it becomes much clearer why Patraeus resigned. Unlike many prominent Republican elected officials and Republican presidential appointees, it is not unusual at all for them to resign once their affairs become public knowledge. Or in this particular case would soon become so:

(CNN) -- The affair that brought an end to David Petraeus' tenure as CIA director came to light during an FBI investigation into a complaint that his biographer Paula Broadwell was sending harassing e-mails to another woman close to him, a U.S. official said Saturday.

During the investigation, other communications surfaced between Petraeus and Broadwell, a married mother of two, according to the official.

The official did not identify the woman who made the initial complaint and did not know the nature of her relationship with Petraeus.

The FBI interviewed Petraeus in the course of its inquiry, said the official, who stressed that the CIA director was never the target of the investigation and his communications were never compromised. The official did not know whether Broadwell was interviewed.

The Obama administration first learned of the affair in a phone call from the FBI to Director of National Security James Clapper at 5 p.m. on election night, according to a senior U.S. intelligence official.

It appears to really have nothing to do with so-called national security. It was seemingly a matter of extreme jealousy between two women which degenerated into threats.

And definitely the military does punish for adultery, regardless of gender. Military law is pretty puritan compared to some State's laws.

I obviously never claimed it did given how vehemently opposed I have been in the past to such blatant hypocrisy and absurd witch hunts, which I even reiterated on page one in my very first post of this thread.

You really shouldn't believe the utter nonsense perpetuated by some in this forum on a regular basis, much less try to spread it given how utterly false it clearly is.

 

[caketastydelish]

That was some of the worst left-wing hackery ever.

Also, what does YMMV mean?

Finally: Can we stop bickering so bitterly about stupid stuff?

It was just a joke.

Spoiler :

Frankly I don't care about the guy or his affair one way or the other.

 

[NovaKart]

I haven't really kept up with this but why did Paula Broadwell reveal the affair? Is it just because of this book she wants to sell? If that's the case, it really speaks badly of her that she not only had an affair with a married man but she didn't have the decency to keep it quiet.

My first thought was actually, people aren't making an issue out of them organizing coups but they care if someone has an affair, why? But then I read this thread and see that it's a potential security risk.

 

[Grisu]

Also, what does YMMV mean?

your mileage may vary

 

[hobbsyoyo]

your mileage may vary

Thanks Grisu!

I haven't really kept up with this but why did Paula Broadwell reveal the affair? Is it just because of this book she wants to sell? If that's the case, it really speaks badly of her that she not only had an affair with a married man but she didn't have the decency to keep it quiet.

My first thought was actually, people aren't making an issue out of them organizing coups but they care if someone has an affair, why? But then I read this thread and see that it's a potential security risk.

She didn't reveal the affair.

She sent threatening, anonymous emails to some other women. That women had a personal friend in the FBI that she asked to investigate. He took a look and either he or the local field office decided they were threatening enough to warrant investigation.

During the investigation, they turned up emails from Petraeus. At first, they believed this meant his email had been hacked, which led them to dig further. They then found out that his emails weren't hacked, but that he had been emailing Broadwell (not Eva Green ) because he was having an affair with her. They interviewed both Broadwell and Petraeus and determined that national security wasn't compromised and basically closed the case (I haven't heard what, if anything, they did about the threatening emails).

At some point, the original FBI agent that investigated the threatening emails was taken off the case because of an obvious conflict of interest (he was personal friends with the recipient). However, on Morning Joe this morning, Andrea Mitchell said that at some point, of his own accord, this agent revealed to the office of Eric Cantor what was going on. This apparently is the point where everything blew up as it went from a private investigation to a political circus. Up until then, no one in Congress or outside of the FBI knew what was going on. However, this is standard practice in the FBI (to keep the investigation under wraps if their isn't a pressing need to share) but the agent telling Cantor's office about it is gross misconduct.

Andrea was also adament that the White House was not told about the incident until the morning after the election and not at 5 in the afternoon on election night.

 

[NovaKart]

Thanks for the update, was the other woman also having an affair with him? I read a couple articles about this but they all assumed the reader was familiar with the story.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Thanks for the update, was the other woman also having an affair with him? I read a couple articles about this but they all assumed the reader was familiar with the story.

I haven't heard either way. I guess you could assume so, but you could also assume she had just found out about the affair and was gonna rat them out. Or you could assume that she knew nothing about it and was being harrassed over something entirely unrelated. So it's probably safe to assume that assuming anything is unreasonable at this point.

Or we can rehash what happened after the Bengahzi attacks and all scream at each other without knowing what's going on! Hahahaha


I'll update you when I find out.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The Tampa Bay Times had an interesting story this morning about Jill Kelley:

The woman who reported getting the harassing emails that led to the downfall of CIA Director David Petraeus is, according to a military official, an unpaid MacDill Air Force Base social liaison who once likened the retired general to a grandfather for her daughters.

Jill Kelley, 37, who lives with her husband and three young daughters in a Bayshore Boulevard mansion in South Tampa, has been friends for years with Petraeus and his wife, Holly.

Petraeus served as leader of the U.S. Central Command at MacDill Air Force Base between 2008 and 2010, before he was sworn in as CIA director. The Petraeuses frequently invited the Kelleys to social events held on the base, and the Kelleys likewise invited the Petraeuses to their home.

While he served as head of CentCom, Petraeus in 2010 marked his first celebration of the Gasparilla pirate festival at the Kelleys' nearly 5,000-square-foot house. He and his wife arrived at a white tent on the front lawn of the home with a 28-officer police motorcycle escort.

This past September, Jill Kelley said she had been named "honorary consulate general to South Korea" and also attended a breakfast at the White House.

The Associated Press, quoting an unnamed military official, reported Sunday that Kelley had received harassing emails from Petraeus' mistress, which led the FBI to examine biographer Paula Broadwell's email account and discover her secret relationship.

As the news about her involvement in the scandal broke Sunday, Kelley was holding a birthday party for one of her daughters. Approached on the lawn during the party, Kelley expressed her family's continuing regard for Petraeus. But she declined to discuss the matter further.

Later, Jill and her husband, Dr. Scott Kelley, issued a brief statement: "We and our family have been friends with Gen. Petraeus and his family for over five years. We respect his and his family's privacy and want the same for us and our three children."

Dr. Kelley is listed as a general and oncology surgeon at the Watson Clinic in Lakeland. Previously, he was a physician at Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa.

 

[innonimatu]

However, this is standard practice in the FBI (to keep the investigation under wraps if their isn't a pressing need to share) but the agent telling Cantor's office about it is gross misconduct.

Really? Is that how it's being spinned?

I think that telling about a guy who can't even manage his lovers is kind of pressing when he's trusted with such a job. I mean, having one lover send threatening emails to the other (one of the others?) and draw attention to the whole thing?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Talk about "spin".

All we know at this stage is that Broadwell supposedly sent Kelley threatening email. That she told a friend in the FBI about it. That during the investigation the FBI determined that someone using Patraeus' private email address had sent Broadwell email as well. That it was then determined that Patraeus' account had not been hacked. That Patraeus then resigned when it got out.

What is Patraeus supposed to do to "manage" his apparent lover?

What I really want to know is what gives the FBI the right to monitor all email in such a manner? What did other private correspondence have to do with this particular matter? Do they have access to all email in such situations, apparently without even a court order?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Really? Is that how it's being spinned?

I think that telling about a guy who can't even manage his lovers is kind of pressing when he's trusted with such a job. I mean, having one lover send threatening emails to the other (one of the others?) and draw attention to the whole thing?

There isn't much really to spin at this point. I reported facts and not any spin but if you want to doubt my reporting then go ahead.

 

[innonimatu]

There isn't much really to spin at this point. I reported facts and not any spin but if you want to doubt my reporting then go ahead.

I didn't intend to suggest that you are introducing any bias.

Talk about "spin".

All we know at this stage is that Broadwell supposedly sent Kelley threatening email. That she told a friend in the FBI about it. That during the investigation the FBI determined that someone using Patraeus' private email address had sent Broadwell email as well. That it was then determined that Patraeus' account had not been hacked. That Patraeus then resigned when it got out.

What is Patraeus supposed to do to "manage" his apparent lover?

What I really want to know is what gives the FBI the right to monitor all email in such a manner? What did other private correspondence have to do with this particular matter? Do they have access to all email in such situations. apparently without even a court order?

What, you're surprised? At least the blanked spying powers came to bite ... the "spymaster". Ironic.

Also the story I've read recently is that this Broadwell woman was sending threatening emails to the Kelley woman out of jealously... if you're going to collect lovers wither don't let them know about each other or don't get jealous ones, damn it!