Phaedo
Emperor
D'art's tied up with RL, he'd like to be skipped so off we go
Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required
- Thread starter Phaedo
- Start date
Phaedo
Emperor
Twix posted his turns I think. Al seems to gone the way of all flesh though.
I think we are ready to discuss and move on
I think we are ready to discuss and move on
Phaedo
Emperor
EDIT: Opps, wrong thread sorry
Phaedo
Emperor
Well, after looking at the saves, I think Sal's or Twix's is the way to go. It comes down to if we want a settler or Grannary first. Twix has also met the arabs.
The Phaedo save suffers from not making trades. The save can catch up in tech with immediate trades but IW will be 23 turns away as opposed to the 15 turns that it would take in all the other saves. The Celts have been met.
Except for me, everyone has the same tech (Alph, Pot, WC, CB and BW) and IW is 15 away.
Moscow is size 3 in all the saves with growth in 4.
Sal and Aabra have a settler coming in 5 (Phaedo in 2. Maybe I mined before roading the BG)
Twix has a Gran in 12
Sal has 49g losing 1 gpt
Twix has 52g losing 1gpt
Aabra has 45g losing 1gpt
Phaedo has 30g even
All are researching at 100%
Workers will all complete their roads in 2 turns
Twix opened up the Arabs in the Southwest where the rest of us opened the Dutch in the Southeast
Sal's and Aabra's saves are are almost identical whith Sal having a 4 gold edge.
So it would seem to be a discussion about the benefits of a settler or grannary that will decide the save. Given that the Dutch land isn't so good and the Arabs are so far away, I'm tempted to go for the grannary as we ought not to get too much competition in city placement from them but I'm really not sure.
Thoughts?
The Phaedo save suffers from not making trades. The save can catch up in tech with immediate trades but IW will be 23 turns away as opposed to the 15 turns that it would take in all the other saves. The Celts have been met.
Except for me, everyone has the same tech (Alph, Pot, WC, CB and BW) and IW is 15 away.
Moscow is size 3 in all the saves with growth in 4.
Sal and Aabra have a settler coming in 5 (Phaedo in 2. Maybe I mined before roading the BG)
Twix has a Gran in 12
Sal has 49g losing 1 gpt
Twix has 52g losing 1gpt
Aabra has 45g losing 1gpt
Phaedo has 30g even
All are researching at 100%
Workers will all complete their roads in 2 turns
Twix opened up the Arabs in the Southwest where the rest of us opened the Dutch in the Southeast
Sal's and Aabra's saves are are almost identical whith Sal having a 4 gold edge.
So it would seem to be a discussion about the benefits of a settler or grannary that will decide the save. Given that the Dutch land isn't so good and the Arabs are so far away, I'm tempted to go for the grannary as we ought not to get too much competition in city placement from them but I'm really not sure.
Thoughts?
Some random comments before examining the saves:
1. there isn't a lot of variation in the saves as we basically agreed on what to do before playing. If we had started with 20 turns in the beginning and only set some loose plans the differences would have been much more noticable
2. we don't have to choose the save based on what each of us are building as that can easily be changed
3. I agree, a granary first makes sense as none of the AI are right next to us and we have a lot of land to fill. The sooner we get the settler factory going the better
4. this seems to be quite a large continent as we've already met many civs and seen many different luxuries. Getting a boat or two out asap is not vital but the more civs we know the better
5. we probably could have gone for the slingshot after all. Like I said none of the AI are right next to us and we can get a whole lot of cities before all the land is filled. We don't have to think much about war until then. We could have then traded our techs for the war techs and started preparing for war
1. there isn't a lot of variation in the saves as we basically agreed on what to do before playing. If we had started with 20 turns in the beginning and only set some loose plans the differences would have been much more noticable
2. we don't have to choose the save based on what each of us are building as that can easily be changed
3. I agree, a granary first makes sense as none of the AI are right next to us and we have a lot of land to fill. The sooner we get the settler factory going the better
4. this seems to be quite a large continent as we've already met many civs and seen many different luxuries. Getting a boat or two out asap is not vital but the more civs we know the better
5. we probably could have gone for the slingshot after all. Like I said none of the AI are right next to us and we can get a whole lot of cities before all the land is filled. We don't have to think much about war until then. We could have then traded our techs for the war techs and started preparing for war
I'd say go with Twix's save. He seems to have a slight edge at 52 gold and contact with the Arabs. I also agree with Salarakas in that coming to a (mostly) agreement before playing definitely reduced differences in the saves.
Phaedo
Emperor
Sal, you are absolutely right about the builds. I guess I was just looking at the saves and not really thinking about them.
The lack of variation isn't a bad thing. I wanted to focus on MMing and this set did show a difference between the Phaedo save and the others in Moscow's production. I need to look at my notes again and compare but somehow Phaedo's Moscow is building faster. It is working the same tiles at the ens so it must have been something before. The growth is the same, the tiles are the same and the citizens re the same. At first blush, I can only think of worker moves
EDIT: It didn't seem to be worker moves. Did the 3rd citizen work the second BG after growth or go to the unworked wine for a turn or to in the other saves?
We need some discussion but the order as it stands is:
Sal
Aabra
Twix (haven't heard from him in a 5 days, which isn't really too long)
Phaedo
D'art (currently skipping due to RL)
The lack of variation isn't a bad thing. I wanted to focus on MMing and this set did show a difference between the Phaedo save and the others in Moscow's production. I need to look at my notes again and compare but somehow Phaedo's Moscow is building faster. It is working the same tiles at the ens so it must have been something before. The growth is the same, the tiles are the same and the citizens re the same. At first blush, I can only think of worker moves
EDIT: It didn't seem to be worker moves. Did the 3rd citizen work the second BG after growth or go to the unworked wine for a turn or to in the other saves?
We need some discussion but the order as it stands is:
Sal
Aabra
Twix (haven't heard from him in a 5 days, which isn't really too long)
Phaedo
D'art (currently skipping due to RL)
Let's make a simple vote again:
1. which save do you want to go with?
2. do you want a settler or a granary first?
3. if you want a settler first where do you want the city?
4. what to research after iron working?
1. I still haven't looked into the saves but Twix's save sounds good to me
2. I'd go with a granary first
3. -
4. if we don't see iron anywhere I'd go for the wheel to see where ponies are. If we do have iron writing could be a nice choice as we're not going to be building any catapults yet.
1. which save do you want to go with?
2. do you want a settler or a granary first?
3. if you want a settler first where do you want the city?
4. what to research after iron working?
1. I still haven't looked into the saves but Twix's save sounds good to me
2. I'd go with a granary first
3. -
4. if we don't see iron anywhere I'd go for the wheel to see where ponies are. If we do have iron writing could be a nice choice as we're not going to be building any catapults yet.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Salarakas said:
lurker's comment: But you may want to build the SoZ, since you have access to Ivory, so maybe Maths should be part of your planning.
Phaedo
Emperor
As for my vote:
I think SoZ should be a real option, but we are quite a way from building wonders and I think we have some time for math. Having said that, The road to currency can be profitable. I find the AI researches currency late in my demi-god games so I can't see why it would be different here.
- Twix's save seems best as the only difference is cash, we might as well go for the most. Also, knowing where the Dutch are, it's nice to see the SW
- I'm for a Gran. We aren't going to be under a lot of pressure from the other civs so we have some time. Moscow has the potential for a proper settler pump so the earlier it is up, the faster we utilize our land
- NA
- As for research, I'm with Sal. I'm a big fan of cats but as we have some time to expand, it would be nice to know where the horses are in our planning.
I think SoZ should be a real option, but we are quite a way from building wonders and I think we have some time for math. Having said that, The road to currency can be profitable. I find the AI researches currency late in my demi-god games so I can't see why it would be different here.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Phaedo said:
lurker's comment: If you intend to have it, the SoZ is one of those Wonders that you want to get pretty quickly once it's available; because it comes relatively late in the AA, if you build it from scratch it will have lost some of it's value as AC's will be facing better units in the MA's. With that in mind, it makes sense IMO to identify a sufficiently incorrupt and shield rich City site fairly soon, then begin a pre-build once you have settled it.
Looks like it's Twix's save and a granary then.
I'm still not sure what to research next. Bucephalus makes some good points and we definately want to start building the SoZ soon. With ancient cavalry we don't really need any horsemen anyway (not a big fan of them either) and knights are still a long way away. Then again, we can start a prebuild for SoZ any time we want and then switch when we get mathematics.
Shall I play today or wait for Twix's comments first?
I'm still not sure what to research next. Bucephalus makes some good points and we definately want to start building the SoZ soon. With ancient cavalry we don't really need any horsemen anyway (not a big fan of them either) and knights are still a long way away. Then again, we can start a prebuild for SoZ any time we want and then switch when we get mathematics.
Shall I play today or wait for Twix's comments first?
Well I went ahead and played anyway. Nothing major has happened. The granary is finished and we can start expanding. We've spotted a barbarian camp already so remember to protect all settlers.
Turn 0 - 3000BC
-change nothing, press enter
Turn 1 - 2950BC
-the Dutch have built a second town next to the wine
Turn 2 - 2900BC
-worker finishes irrigating the second wine, starts roading
-the southern scout spots green borders
Turn 3 - 2850BC
-Moscow grows in 1 so change a citizen to work the forest to get one more shield
Turn 4 - 2800BC
-we meet the Celts who are down alphabet
-Moscow grows to size 4, I think it's best to keep working the forest as this would give it growth in 7 and granary in 7. With a little tweak we can finish the granary one turn before growing to size 5.
Turn 5 - 2750BC
-worker finishes roading, moves to the third wine
Turn 6 - 2710BC
-zzz
Turn 7 - 2670BC
-the Hittites have the wheel. We have nothing to give to them so no trades
Turn 8 - 2630BC
-the Dutch and the Celts also have the wheel. The Arabs have mysticism.
-all our money + alphabet + warrior code won't get us mysticism. We don't have anything to give to the other civs in exchange for the wheel so no trades
-spot some ivory near the Celts and the Arabs. We have to start (pre)building the SoZ soon-ish if we want it.
Turn 9 - 2590BC
-our eastern scout stops right next to a barbarian camp
-change a citizen from a wine to a bonus grassland in order to get the granary next IBT
Turn 10 - 2550BC
-our scout doesn't get attacked
-Moscow granary->spearman (can be changed)
Notes:
-iron working in 4
-we might probably want to build a settler next instead of a spearman
-Moscow will grow in the IBT so be sure to raise the lux slider to 10%
-we don't really have anything to trade with the others yet. We might want to trade iron working for the wheel or mysticism if we can get some nice deals
-there is a barbarian warrior 1S of the barbarian camp so be careful with the scout
-there's at least four luxuries on this continent (ivory, wines, spices and silks)
-looks like the Dutch have the eastern peninsula all to themselves. The western one is more crowded with at least three civs there. The north is ours.
Turn 0 - 3000BC
-change nothing, press enter
Turn 1 - 2950BC
-the Dutch have built a second town next to the wine
Turn 2 - 2900BC
-worker finishes irrigating the second wine, starts roading
-the southern scout spots green borders
Turn 3 - 2850BC
-Moscow grows in 1 so change a citizen to work the forest to get one more shield
Turn 4 - 2800BC
-we meet the Celts who are down alphabet
-Moscow grows to size 4, I think it's best to keep working the forest as this would give it growth in 7 and granary in 7. With a little tweak we can finish the granary one turn before growing to size 5.
Turn 5 - 2750BC
-worker finishes roading, moves to the third wine
Turn 6 - 2710BC
-zzz
Turn 7 - 2670BC
-the Hittites have the wheel. We have nothing to give to them so no trades
Turn 8 - 2630BC
-the Dutch and the Celts also have the wheel. The Arabs have mysticism.
-all our money + alphabet + warrior code won't get us mysticism. We don't have anything to give to the other civs in exchange for the wheel so no trades
-spot some ivory near the Celts and the Arabs. We have to start (pre)building the SoZ soon-ish if we want it.
Turn 9 - 2590BC
-our eastern scout stops right next to a barbarian camp
-change a citizen from a wine to a bonus grassland in order to get the granary next IBT
Turn 10 - 2550BC
-our scout doesn't get attacked
-Moscow granary->spearman (can be changed)
Notes:
-iron working in 4
-we might probably want to build a settler next instead of a spearman
-Moscow will grow in the IBT so be sure to raise the lux slider to 10%
-we don't really have anything to trade with the others yet. We might want to trade iron working for the wheel or mysticism if we can get some nice deals
-there is a barbarian warrior 1S of the barbarian camp so be careful with the scout
-there's at least four luxuries on this continent (ivory, wines, spices and silks)
-looks like the Dutch have the eastern peninsula all to themselves. The western one is more crowded with at least three civs there. The north is ours.
Looks good, Salarakas. I haven't had a chance to assess in great detail, but I hope to soon. I think I'm up next on the roster, but I'm not going to get to play for at least a couple of days. I might get to play in the first half of the week, but am not sure. If someone wants to take the save, go ahead.
Phaedo
Emperor
I haven't had a chance for a close look either but I think it's fine to wait a coupld of days for Aabra
Thanks. I'd like to get Twix's input, but haven't seen anything from him since he last posted in this thread. I'll do my best to play in the next couple of days. But I don't want to hold up the game so if it gets to be too long, just skip me and I'll catch it on the next go-round.
Some thoughts:
-it would be safer to build a defender first before a settler but I'm not sure if it's necessery. If you go for a settler next be sure to make a defender next though. We don't necesserily need a barracks yet as the purpose of our troops is to do some military police duty and keep barbarians out of our way.
-the second city (once we build it) could make one defender and then possibly start the prebuild to SoZ. If we build the town next to the mountain it can't grow past size 6 but SoZ is a relatively cheap wonder (300 shields I believe?) so we should have no trouble getting it. Just be sure to hook up the ivory before going over 300 shields
-the capital should pump out settlers every five or six turns. It might take a while to get this cycle going (i.e. we might need a worker or another def first and mine some some bonus grassland tiles, possibly build a barracks) but after that we should do our best to utilize the resources the best we can
-we should expand north (obviously) but we definately want to claim that river spot next to the coast. The last thing we want is some AI civ to found cities right next to our capital. Not sure if we should build a city in the jungle area or not... perhaps if it's still unclaimed when we have founded our "core" cities.
-once the scouts reach the ends of the continent turn them back and do your best to explore the unexplored areas. It might be useful to know where the military resources (iron, horses, saltpeter later on) are when we start expanding
-it would be safer to build a defender first before a settler but I'm not sure if it's necessery. If you go for a settler next be sure to make a defender next though. We don't necesserily need a barracks yet as the purpose of our troops is to do some military police duty and keep barbarians out of our way.
-the second city (once we build it) could make one defender and then possibly start the prebuild to SoZ. If we build the town next to the mountain it can't grow past size 6 but SoZ is a relatively cheap wonder (300 shields I believe?) so we should have no trouble getting it. Just be sure to hook up the ivory before going over 300 shields
-the capital should pump out settlers every five or six turns. It might take a while to get this cycle going (i.e. we might need a worker or another def first and mine some some bonus grassland tiles, possibly build a barracks) but after that we should do our best to utilize the resources the best we can
-we should expand north (obviously) but we definately want to claim that river spot next to the coast. The last thing we want is some AI civ to found cities right next to our capital. Not sure if we should build a city in the jungle area or not... perhaps if it's still unclaimed when we have founded our "core" cities.
-once the scouts reach the ends of the continent turn them back and do your best to explore the unexplored areas. It might be useful to know where the military resources (iron, horses, saltpeter later on) are when we start expanding
Twixmeistah
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2006
- Messages
- 34
Hey guys, sorry to keep you waiting this long, but I'm having trouble finding time to participate in this game as intense as I would've liked. I really like to stay in though, but it's inevitable for me that I should take a slightly more passive role.
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